28 Sqn Hunter FGA9. 1/48 Hawker hacking by hendie

[Brandy]

10 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

The invasion is off, I'm afraid. I found out that Bourbon biscuits aren't available over there. Tsk!

Both biscuits and bourbon are available. Dunk 'em!

Although US "biscuits" dunked in anything would be rather nasty as they are basically scones.

 

And they eat them with GRAVY!

 

Heathens!

 

I hope you didn't have to prime the basement Alan!

 

Ian

[georgeusa]

4 hours ago, Brandy said:

Both biscuits and bourbon are available. Dunk 'em!

Although US "biscuits" dunked in anything would be rather nasty as they are basically scones.

 

And they eat them with GRAVY!

 

Heathens!

 

I hope you didn't have to prime the basement Alan!

 

Ian

When you have to go out in the cold to take care of the horses and cattle, there is nothing better in this world to come back to than a pan of freshly made buttermilk biscuits slathered in homemade milk gravy made with bacon drippiings.  Pure heaven!!!  And, so I don't violate the "Nigel" rule and have too much talk about food in the build section, wouldn't a dark color car primer work as a base for your metallic finish of choice?  Might have to put a very light coat on to keep panel detail, but even a light coat should be more than enough to bite into the plastic to create a solid base for a metallic color coat.

[hendie]

On 25/01/2022 at 07:31, Biggles87 said:

Sorry to hear of you primer woes, but looking good now.

I’ve used Stynylrez primer a few times but only in black and haven’t had any problems. Perhaps the colour makes a difference to the final outcome, but I don’t see why it should. 

Is the Mr Color primer very smelly? I’m looking for a replacement for my Halfords grey primer which I can’t get any more from the UK. I’ve ruled out Tamiya primer as SWMBO objects to the odour.

 

John

 

I haven't used Mr Color Primer yet so can't really comment, but it's next on my list.  Going by the other Mr. paints I have tried, I am going to assume there is a certain aroma associated with their use.

 

On 25/01/2022 at 08:02, giemme said:

That looks sweet!    

 

Ciao

 

thanks Giorgio

 

On 25/01/2022 at 08:34, franky boy said:

Looking good now. 
 

I tried Stynlrez a few years back. I managed to get it to spray ok but it didn’t like sticking to a model much. In fact it stuck to the airbrush better. Since when I’ve been a convert to Mr Colour and never looked back. 

 

Keep up the good work. 
 

James 

 

that's where I'm headed James, thanks

 

On 25/01/2022 at 10:08, Marklo said:

I like ultimate primer, it’s aqueous and can be thinned if needed with water or ( I tend to use) Tamiya thinner. The only niggle I have is that it is subject to tip drying in the airbrush so you do need to periodically clean the nozzle and tip.

 

I've heard about Ultimate Primer a few times but as far as I know it's unavailable over here

 

On 25/01/2022 at 10:38, mark.au said:

…and that’s why I don’t use primer at all. 🤷‍♂️

 

rebel!

 

On 25/01/2022 at 11:56, Terry1954 said:

Sorry to hear of your primer problems Alan. It has been a familiar theme in my life too. Alclad has given me some very variable results, and I'm also finding some water based acrylic primers don't always stay down when masking is lifted, but for me it does also seem to be the relationship with what's underneath the primer. For example I've found that where Mr Surfacer has been used to fill/smooth areas, acrylic primers on top can lift (but not all of them do!). I'd say batch issues must have plagued Alclad for sure, so all a bit random with them really. I know some AFV modellers who swear by Stynylrez primer and I have used it once a while back and had no problems that I recall. I'm currently having to "restore" the underside of a P-51H which had AK One Shot grey primer, covered with AK extreme metal enamel - mostly it worked, but some small areas lifted after masking. Could have been the Mr Surfacer "sub coat" issue I mentioned before as it seems to have peeled away from areas that had received that treatment prior to primer. Incidentally, AK extreme metal on to AK's gloss black primer has been amazing, with no lifting at all after a complex multi panel masking of an F-86.

 

I have yet to experience any issues with Mr Paint (MRP) or Mr Colour primers, so I tend to stick with those now, but primers and masking is a black art for me these days, for sure!

 

The Hunter looks lovely in its latest primed state.

 

Terry

 

MRP can be had but sometimes difficult to find here. Since Testors/Model Master went defunct I've been in the process of switching over to Mr Color so I may as well have a bash with their primer as well. 

 

On 25/01/2022 at 11:59, Quiet Mike said:

 

This is my 'go-to' primer as well Marklo. Agree about it drying quickly, I mix in some home brew flow improver, and also dilute it with thinners. But as a relative newbie it's the only primer I've used so far.

 

we're all newbies here, just some are newbier than others

 

On 25/01/2022 at 12:38, gingerbob said:

 

Why am I hearing a Led Zeppelin song in my head?

 

I need to do something similar to my house, in order to have a proper workshop.  I really should...

 

the only trouble with having a workshop is that people kind of expect you to use it for work type activities.  Mine is currently under a few inches of sawdust and cement dust, not to mention all the furniture that had to be moved out of the finished portion of the basement while all this construction is going on.  It makes for an interesting journey to the workbench though

 

On 26/01/2022 at 03:07, mark.au said:

In all seriousness, I've never has paint adhesion issues with spraying directly onto plastic, as long as it's properly prepared with a degreasing agent (I use Windex).  I do check suspect seams with random paint before applying the colour coats.  Throwing a primer coat  in the mix just adds risk for not much reward as I have found.

 

Now, the Hunter however, I've very glad to see it progressing, and in such fine fettle too.  Please keep going.  Please.

 

 

I was probably more careful on this build than I have been on any other - the Hunter was wiped down with IPA and only handled wearing gloves and still...

 

On 26/01/2022 at 22:07, RMP2 said:

I am STILL waiting for my Jaguar ladder!

Nice work though. Maybe try that lovely resin FR10 conversion set on your next one. It is oooh such a delight.

 

 

On 28/01/2022 at 00:04, The Spadgent said:

looking fantastic!
Sorry to hear of your Primer woes though. I use Tamiya rattle can myself. It’s really good but…. It does smell. It smells amazing!!🤤

Ha! Actually lolled at this.  My wife always calls up for me to shut my door if I’m spraying Tamiya primer or top coat as she says she can smell nerd. 🤣 

 

Great work on the cellar too. Looks really great. Is that bellow ground level? I fear my cellar would be too damp for such furnishings.  
 

Johnny

 

Yup, the basement is about 90% below ground.  There is about a foot or so of the basement above ground but the rest is sunken. French drains and a sump pump keep it all dry.

If you look at the photo and look out the window you'll see that we had to fit egress windows - there's a corrugated steel U shape outside the window keeping the ground at bay, and there's also a small ladder leading up to ground level

 

On 29/01/2022 at 19:27, TheBaron said:

Sympathy on the primer tribulations Alan but that Mr.Color looks a fantastic finish - especially on them dandy looking pylons.

How much wine are you intending to store exactly?

 

I have definitely been impressed with Mr Color both in their ease of use and of the great finish.  

 

On 29/01/2022 at 19:57, Pete in Lincs said:

Wine should be stored in a cellar. Hendie has basements, which are different. Mostly because of the spelling.

<snip>

This picture proves that while Hendie has many followers, he only has one fan.

 

we really need a groan emoticon

 

On 02/02/2022 at 00:16, georgeusa said:

Well, I am very impressed with your scratchbuilding efforts and results.  It is pretty impressive and you have become even more talented.  You still have the same deprecating treatment of your own abilities, so some things don't change.  I also must commend you on your 1:1 building skills.  A lovely aircraft even though it doesn't have propellers.

 

George!   nice to see you back again. It's been a few years hasn't it?

I'm not sure if you're aware or not but there has been some very sad news regarding Nigel 

 

 

 

On 02/02/2022 at 12:46, Brandy said:

Both biscuits and bourbon are available. Dunk 'em!

Although US "biscuits" dunked in anything would be rather nasty as they are basically scones.

 

And they eat them with GRAVY!

 

Heathens!

 

I hope you didn't have to prime the basement Alan!

 

Ian

 

Prime?  Oh yes I had to prime the basement - and used loads of masking tape when painting too. 

Biscuits?  Yeah this is the land where biscuits aren't biscuits, and gravy isn't gravy.  Chips aren't chips and jelly isn't jelly.

Come to think of it, cookies aren't biscuits either.  

 

On 02/02/2022 at 17:50, georgeusa said:

When you have to go out in the cold to take care of the horses and cattle, there is nothing better in this world to come back to than a pan of freshly made buttermilk biscuits slathered in homemade milk gravy made with bacon drippiings.  Pure heaven!!!  And, so I don't violate the "Nigel" rule and have too much talk about food in the build section, wouldn't a dark color car primer work as a base for your metallic finish of choice?  Might have to put a very light coat on to keep panel detail, but even a light coat should be more than enough to bite into the plastic to create a solid base for a metallic color coat.

 

So if I don't keep horses and I don't keep cattle then there's no reason for me to have to eat that biscuits n gravy sludge then ?  Righty ho, I'm sorted. Tattie scones and black pudding it is then. 

 

 

It's been almost a month since I last made any progress and posted on this thread, until today that is.  Life has really been getting in the way of things recently.  The basement is progressing despite the best efforts of the plumbers who went AWOL for a few weeks. All 3 rooms are now painted, electrics are finished, the plumbing is roughed in, and just on Friday I had the shower plumbing cemented in place. Passed 3 inspections so far and another 3 inspections to go. If things don't go awry the shower tray should be fitted towards the end of this week allowing me to get on with the shower walls and the last of all the fiddly stuff and then there's just the carpets and tiles to go. 

As always, now that those rooms are looking decent with a fresh coat of paint, SWMBO has decided that the rest of the basement should be painted as well... and have new carpet and tiles.  

 

The other little life thing that chucked an anvil into the proceedings was a little toothache I started experiencing earlier in the week. Cue trip to the dentist where he informs me that I have a root canal infection in a tooth he canaled about 4 years ago.  He sent me home with some antibiotics and some painkillers, but come Friday night I found myself in the local ER for a nice little 10 hour visit, 4 of which were just sitting waiting to be seen. Making sure the healthcare system got it's moneys worth, they sent me for a CAT scan, blood tests, and IV'd some nice industrial strength painkillers into my system. However, now I have to see a specialist and after having called around 7 or 8 in a 50 mile radius the earliest appointment I can get is **@$%**@@ 5 weeks away.   I may be seeing the ER again in the not too distant future if things don't get any better.  Teeth.  Who needs 'em?

 

Why did I start typing again? Oh. Hunter.  I was talking about an 'Unter wasn't I?  Was I?

 

I decided I had had enough of this painting malarkey and all the associated problems with paint lift, but I still needed to throw on the dark green.  Glancing at the Frog masking tape I've been using on the frogs rooms recently I had an idea...

There we go!  All masked and no need to paint anymore.  Job done.

 

 

Sadly the green tape is covering the areas that should be grey,  so I had to cover the grey areas with green that should be... wait a minute.

 

 

Later that day - by about 30 minutes - we had one of these

 

 

and one of these.  Never fails does it?  Only two small areas - both traced back to the use of Alclad primer.

 

 

During the week I managed to grab a few small sessions and got those parts dealt with.

Today I actually had what I believe is called spare time so, gritting my - wait, no - I didn't grit my teeth - that would have been painful.  In a determined fashion I headed down the stairs to the basement and played with masking tape and polythene to make one of these.

 

 

which if Ced (bless 'im) were here, would say is a live one of these

 

 

Alclad HSS.  So far it appears to be quite durable and gives a nice even finish.

To try and give myself a fighting chance of not lifting yet more paint I used Aizu tape as my primary line of defense.  Aizu was laid down for the demarcation bands, followed by 6mm (many times de-tacked on my greasy hands) Tamiya tape overlaid on the Aizu. Then thin polythene was taped onto the 6mm band of tape.

I love Aizu tape - I even managed to get a nice clean line along the wingtips where you'll just have to take my word for it as the shot is a bit fuzzy.

 

 

Seen to better effect here

 

 

The little angel on my right shoulder was telling me good job, now leave it alone and you can do the other colors next week, but the little devil sitting on my other shoulder kept saying the airbrush is still warm so just keep going.

So I did.  I had two black panels and one shiny panel still to color in.  I chose Mr Color Black Green for no other reason than I hadn't used it before and wanted to see what color black green was.

It's mainly black, with a hint of green.

 

 

but black enough to look black without being a stark false looking black.

 

 

tail bit.

 

 

and shiny bit.  I used Alclad shiny aluminum for the shiny aluminum bit that probably isn't aluminum, but is shiny

 

 

This is where we sit at end of play this weekend. 

 

 

I think that will sit for a few days and then I'll give it a nice coat of Mr Color clear, though I have a niggling feeling that I'm still missing something before that should happen.

 

Gun troughs!  I need to paint the gun troughs a different color. Still another niggle going on though.

 

 

Stay safe and may your dentist always walk by your side

 

 

 

 

 

 

Test

 

 

[Mike]

Sometimes thing get "lost" if you get a 500 error while posting. If it happens again, editing your last post usually brings it back

[TheBaron]

Commiserations on the gnashers Alan - sincerely hope that gets sorted soon.

 

Your swap of primers seems to have paid off handsomely in the results of your last update, especially that HSS/Camo demarcation line. Sharpness itself.

[giemme]

Gorgeous paint job, Alan!    

 

Toothache clearly not affecting your modelling skills....     Just kidding, I hope you get sorted soon

 

Ciao

[perdu]

Beautiful.

 

I am not sure why I missed the sad news about Nigel, a great loss to our family. Cheerio buddy.

 

Alan, you know you wonder if there is something else?

 

Well I do not know about your Hunter but there needs to be a bulge on the upper wing which corresponds exactly with the upper surface roundel and might be the pylon below it's fitment points.

 

Always seen the bulge painted blue as part of the upper-wing roundel outer ring

 

Hence, from the BM walkaround and Graham James

 

I love the black green 'black' it just is, isn't it.

 

 

Re: the bulges, I will get my coat OK, mind you I like how it sits on top and isnt a 'fair it in and polish it' type of addition so undoubtedly I missed the mention earlier.

 

Doh.

[Marklo]

9 hours ago, hendie said:

I've heard about Ultimate Primer a few times but as far as I know it's unavailable over here

It turns out that ultimate is actually Stynlrez repackaged by Badger!! So that’s probably moot.

[hendie]

3 hours ago, perdu said:

Well I do not know about your Hunter but there needs to be a bulge on the upper wing which corresponds exactly with the upper surface roundel and might be the pylon below it's fitment points.

 

Always seen the bulge painted blue as part of the upper-wing roundel outer ring

 

Hence, from the BM walkaround and Graham James

 

thanks Bill, but as far as I can tell, these bulges were not present on any of 28's Hunters. I have about 5 shots of 28's aircraft and none of them appear to show any bulge.

 

 

note to self: must remember the pitot, and should probably have fitted it by now

 

 

 

[Terry1954]

Paint job went down lovely Alan, and she's looking very Hunter like indeed. Also very nice pic above with what looks like a lovely Convair Coronado 880 parked behind. Loved the Coronado's in thier day.

 

Terry

[perdu]

Bullet not so much dodged as unfired then, phew.

👌

[Brandy]

Gorgeous paintwork Alan, and those straight lines are so..... straight, and sharp!

 

Lovely stuff.

 

Ian

Sorry about the tooth issue. Got to love US "healthcare". Always amuses me when they tell me they have the best health care in the world!

[Dave Swindell]

6 hours ago, perdu said:

Well I do not know about your Hunter but there needs to be a bulge on the upper wing which corresponds exactly with the upper surface roundel and might be the pylon below it's fitment points.

Outer pylon fitted = upper wing bulge

No outer pylon, no bulge

The bulge houses the top of the pylon Ejection Release Unit

 

[Pete in Lincs]

16 hours ago, hendie said:

Teeth.  Who needs 'em?

Hmmm Get well soon. Then you can enjoy the Tattie scones and black pudding.

 

Nice masking and colours. We'd better not mention bulges, eh?

 

 

[georgeusa]

I feel your pain regarding your teeth.  Just had a molar that was gold capped in the 80s fall out and to fix just that tooth, the dentist and oral surgeon want about $6,000.00.  Never forget Ambesol for babies teething.  Works for a short time numbing everything it touches and you can apply it numerous times throughout the day.

 

Regarding you painting, I'm glad it turned out so well and I also feel your pain with the little spots that always occur after you put on the camo and then remove the tape to find the overlap of bare plastic.  

 

I had to look up "Tattie Scones" and "Black Pudding".  (I spend about half my time looking up stuff I read here so the comments make sense.)  Really, the idea of white gravy is too much for you while blood, cereal and pork meat followed by essentially, a potato pancake has more appeal.  Son, you need to come to Texas so I can rustle up some scratch sourdough biscuits baked over an open fire with some manna from heaven known as white gravy using bacon drippings created in a cast iron skillet.  I will have you converted with the first bite.  After that, your initiation into western/ranch food will be followed up with homemade chili and cornbread.  The chili will of course be toned down in the heat factor as you are a new comer to the cuisine.

 

By the way, black green is typically used on WWII German fighter propellers that were constructed from wood.  If you have some black green left, come over to the dark side of propeller aircraft and colors.  It is always a hearty debate about what shade of light blue is sky versus what really is 72, 73, 65 etc.  Your use of it on the tip of the nose is quite effective and looks wonderful.  I think you made a right choice in this matter.

 

[Terry1954]

2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Outer pylon fitted = upper wing bulge

No outer pylon, no bulge

The bulge houses the top of the pylon Ejection Release Unit

 

I'd started to research the bulge myself, and concluded that any Hunter I saw with an outer pylon, also had the bulge above, so assumed they were "connected", but thanks for sharing that link Dave, incredibly useful.

 

I have a few 1/72 Hunter's in the stash plus the new tool Airfix 1/48, so will enjoy getting very nerdy with all this info!

 

Terry

[Max Headroom]

Oh that does look handsome indeed. I chickened out and have done mine with the LAG option from the box - can’t be doing with all that silver!

 

Trevor

[perdu]

Begatting, as one does, Hunter fever I opened the Frog/Novo Hunter FGA9 in my mini-stash which is intended to run with my rare Airfix Hawker Hart soon only to find that the entire sprue/runner (this is Hendie's thread isnt it) with the Sabrinas and various undercarriage portions on it is missing from the box.

 

I entreat any itinerant modelling god to help me find the missing sprue/runner tomorrow when I dig into the stash boxes in faint hope of saving me a lot of unexpected and unwarranted scratch building.

 

I had known about the link with the pylon below deck, hadn't known the pylon was directly responsible for the actuality of said bulge.

 

I love Britmodeller.

 

Thanks Dave.

[hendie]

8 hours ago, perdu said:

Bullet not so much dodged as unfired then, phew.

👌

 

more like the lull before the broadside Bill.  Read on.

 

I got a gloss coat slathered on and it was looking pretty decent.  Ready for transfers thought I

 

 

and started looking at the instructions and that gnawing feeling grew and grew and grew.  I have the Xtradecal sheet and have been following theirs, and Airfix's guide to coloring in Hunters.   Both show the camo wrap around the leading edge with both the HSS and the LAG.

... unless you look very closely at the side view where the demarcation between the camo and the HSS is along the leading edge.  

 

 

To add more confusion, the Xtradecal has the serial number in black whereas the two photos I have of XG297 show the serial in white.  In fact all the other photos I have with only one exception show the serials in white. 

Take for example, this shot showing XG291. The serial is clearly in white. But wait a mo'

What's that? Yes, that bit in the middle that isn't camo and isn't HSS or LAG... it's yellow !

 

 

Hold on now, there's nothing on the Xtradecal sheet to indicate yellow. But wait! There's more.   Let's revisit that shot of XG297 in the hangar again and take a closer look.

Check out those wingtips.

Just visible on the starboard wing as it disappears out of shot is a color that doesn't match the green or grey.  Confused?   Zoom in on the port wing tip and whaddya know. From just inboard of the pitot, the wingtip is a different color. YELLOW!

 

 

Then the more I look, the more convinced I am that the HSS/Camo demarcation is along the leading edge, at least out to the dogtooth, where the camo appears to wrap around the underside. As much as I hate to say it, the camo pattern is also different from both Airfix's and Xtradecals illustration, most noticeably on the starboard side from the intake opening forward.   

 

Quandary. Did Xtradecal get their info from a different time frame in the aircrafts life? or is it just wrong?  According to this photo, Xtradecals placement of the Demi-Pegasus is also incorrect.

I'm reluctant at this point (after glossing) to redo the camo pattern. I can make the serial up from individual characters in white, and I can always paint the wingtips yellow.  Should I try and get that demarcation along the leading edge or just leave it?  I'm tempted to just leave it, but do the yellow wingtips to add a (belated) splash of color.  If I do try and amend the HSS/Camo demarcation, how far does the camo wrap around outboard of the dogtooth, if at all.

 

*edit*

if I do add the yellow, which is very tempting, is it a straight line from leading edge to trailing edge? Or is it only the wingtip panel that is yellow?

I can't find anything on Google so far which reveals the solution

 

 

 

Answers?   I got none.

 

 

 

[mark.au]

Much of your questioning is resolved by my favourite principle in our craft; modeller’s choice.  You’re going to need to commit to one pic as your master reference and go from there.

 

Definitley paint the yellow; use Occam’s razor for the decision on where to put it.  My choice would be to follow a panel line in the absence of any evidence or paint directive to the contrary.

 

I would probably redo the camo pattern if it were me, I t’s a task that seems bigger than it is - the proviso being to match as near as practical the photo you pic as your master reference.  The leading edges will be the same challenge, not so hard to do.

 

You’ve got this, and you’ll always look back on this one with regret if you don’t fix it to your own [high levels, judging by your other work] satisfaction.

[mark.au]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:25 AM, hendie said:

rebel!

What can I say?  That’s the way I roll… 😆

[RMP2]

If it makes any odds or helps at all - Italeris destructions for their 1/48 F6/9 also show the camo running to the underside of the wing leading edges much like RAF Phantoms and Jaguars and possibly more. One version also has painted wing tips, much like the yellow ones for yours.

I noticed the green camo blob on the trailing edge of the starboard wing looked a little small to me - said above destuctions show it larger too.

 

Linky link - https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Hawker-Hunter-F-Mk.VI-IX.html#gallery_start

 

More than happy to be proven wrong and shot down in flames, just hoping to help.

 

ps - I have a jaguar ladder now. Its lovely.

 

 

EDIT: A quick flick through my Hunter pics of II(AC) squadron show the camo running under the leading edge of the tail fins too. They also do not show the bulge over the outboard pylons but I suspect that is due to them perhaps only being meant for fuel tanks on the FR10s?
Link to my pics that I have looked at might work - https://www.flickr.com/photos/156286076@N07/albums/72157695263646960

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by RMP2

[giemme]

10 hours ago, hendie said:

Answers?   I got none.

My  worth of advice: paint the yellow wingtips following the panel line. Fix the camouflage too; if you're worried about tone mismatch because you're going over an already glossed coat, it could be the time to experiment with post shading to blend it in and give the overall a bit of a worn out look

 

Ciao

[Phoenix44]

My eyes/screen says the wing split definitely starts at the middle of the end of the intake and seems to go straight along, so no wraparound and there's thin yellow wingtips. I note on some of the other pictures the lower side of the intake is not HSS, but on the hangar picture it definitely is and that carries on outwards.

 

Much like this

[The Spadgent]

Sorry too here’ hear of your fangs dear boy. Hope you get them sorted soon. 🦷😬

Such a shock to hear about Nigel too😔 .

Is it just the overlap on the camo? If so I’m with the others. If you have to change the whole shebang I’d leave it. But Tis your model. And a blinder she’s looking. 👏👏👏👏  Bravo. 🙌

 

 Johnny