Hawker Hurricane Mk IIc 1/48 Arma Hobby

[dreamwriter]

11 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

Eveytime people talk about kit prices they always seem to compare them to Eduard. Eduard always seem to keep their prices of kits low, probably due to the fact that they  mold their own kits, print their own decals, make their own masks ( maybe they even print their own box and instructions I don't know ) and probably other things which effect their overheads and allow them to keep their costs down.

 

This causes many  people to think companies like Arma are some how ripping people off, when other than the design of the kit, they have to get other companies to do everything else which obviously increase costs and is reflected in the final cost to the customers.

 

Bottom line is if you want a high quality, modern tooled Hurricane Mk.II since Eduard don't do one, then this is your only option and even at the retail price of £45, for what you are actually getting isn't that high a price.

No one's saying that Arma is ripping off modellers. They can charge whatever they want to charge and modellers only buy it if they choose too. I simply stated that I find the kit to be a bit overpriced,nothing else. As for the argument that Arma can't keep their prices low because, contrary to Eduard, they don't manufacture all of the kit in-house, I'm not so sure that's a completely fair argument. Think of Dora Wings, a brand that also doesn't manufacture the kit themselves, and still their prices for WWII subjects like their P-43 or their latest P-47B/C are under 40€. 

Arma knows that their new tool Hurricane is a long overdue and long awaited kit so, they know that even at a slightly higher price tag, it will sell like hot cakes. Had they chosen any other not so long awaited subject to start their 1/48 range, and for sure the price would be lower.

[Fukuryu]

9 minutes ago, dreamwriter said:

Had they chosen any other not so long awaited subject to start their 1/48 range

 

This is not their first 1/48 kit, that was the PZL P.11c.

[Tbolt]

41 minutes ago, dreamwriter said:

No one's saying that Arma is ripping off modellers. They can charge whatever they want to charge and modellers only buy it if they choose too. I simply stated that I find the kit to be a bit overpriced,nothing else. As for the argument that Arma can't keep their prices low because, contrary to Eduard, they don't manufacture all of the kit in-house, I'm not so sure that's a completely fair argument. Think of Dora Wings, a brand that also doesn't manufacture the kit themselves, and still their prices for WWII subjects like their P-43 or their latest P-47B/C are under 40€. 

Arma knows that their new tool Hurricane is a long overdue and long awaited kit so, they know that even at a slightly higher price tag, it will sell like hot cakes. Had they chosen any other not so long awaited subject to start their 1/48 range, and for sure the price would be lower.

 

They did choose something else to start their 1/48th range  - the PZL P.11 was their first 1/48th scale kit. That kit will set you back £37 and is not as comprehesive as the Hurricane. Sure it does come with PE, but Arma after a customer pole, decided to drop PE ( it would be nice if they still did some PE seatbelts because thats really all the cockpit needs extra ) , but this meant they had to improve the plastic details to make up for this.

 

If you are saying their kits are overpriced then you are saying they are charging to much for them are you not? Okay maybe not ripping us off exactly but they obvious need to make a profit to put into future projects and of course the price of everything has increase so much over the last year or so.

 

Dora Wings kits are not the same quality of Arma so it's not exactly a fair comparison, that's a bit like comparing the Modelsvit Mirage III with the Special Hobby one.

[Troy Smith]

I just did this, which maybe useful to link here

 

[TheKinksFan]

52 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Dora Wings kits are not the same quality of Arma so it's not exactly a fair comparison, that's a bit like comparing the Modelsvit Mirage III with the Special Hobby one

Very true, and no matter how nice the Dora Wings kits are, they are as far as I know short run kits. So the cost of the moulds is not comparable to the ones that Arma Hobby uses. And Dora Wings is a very small company, practically one man, so they don't have the same expenses. 

[Tomas Enerdal]

Be aware that AIMS is to release  set for PR Hurricanes, 48P040. (Both PR AND TacR) Details can be seen att hannants, both resin and decals. I believe that AIMS do their homework, especially for nightfighters and PR. Worth considering?

[Ed Russell]

4 hours ago, dreamwriter said:

almost everyone likes to use some sort of extras on, for example, the cockpit. And that means having to get it extra because its not included in the box.

You don't need any extras. Looking in the box, it's pretty good value for money.

You seem to be running a campaign here with multiple posts about how you can't afford it.

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

Be aware that AIMS is to release  set for PR Hurricanes, 48P040. (Both PR AND TacR) Details can be seen att hannants, both resin and decals. I believe that AIMS do their homework, especially for nightfighters and PR. Worth considering?

The AIMS set is not for the IIC, only one options https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AIMS48P040?result-token=pFENN

I had a lengthy correspondence with John on this and added details, tweaks and corrections,  very satisfying as he was interested in my input.   

 

But, as this looks like it is going to be a sucess for Arma, and the kit is set up for otehr versions,  as in the A sprue is common parts for any Hurricane except for the very early Mk.I, the B sprue is the for any Mk.II  fuselage and the C sprue is the specfic C cannon wing tree.

So, the next logical step is a B wing tree.   There are a mass of IIB marking options. 

 

A Mk.I is more complex, as the it depends one a whole range of small changes, which in real world engineering terms are simple, but not so for a plastic kit.

 

I'm hoping they will tool up a IID/Mk.IV wing, as while less marking possibilities, only 300 IID and about 600 Mk.IV were built out 14,000, they are appealing to modellers.... big guns and rockets....!  

 

5 hours ago, dreamwriter said:

Arma knows that their new tool Hurricane is a long overdue and long awaited kit so, they know that even at a slightly higher price tag,

And stuff in general just costs more.   

About the only cockpit extras you might want are a Yahu instrument panel and some seat straps, or a resin seat with moulded straps.

But, if you are a serous modeller, this is a serious jump in detail and options,  I just did a long post on what options are in the kit.

There is NOTHING else of this level of attention to Hurricane detail in ANY scale.   

It's in the same way that the Eduard Spitfire VIII/IX/XVI kits have really made the closest option, the ICM kit, look distinct 2nd.   

 

Sure, you will be able to get Hasegawa kits cheaper now, but if your time is worth anything, then you would spend a lot of time to upgrade the Hase and even then you would not be able to do the rivet job, unless you wanted a lot of positve rivets.    

Or just wait a bit,  I'm sure they will get cheaper, or you will be able to get overtrees, I'm guessing as you are in Portugal you might want to do a Portuguese plane?    

 

HTH

 

 

[dreamwriter]

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

You don't need any extras. Looking in the box, it's pretty good value for money.

You seem to be running a campaign here with multiple posts about how you can't afford it.

Why is it that when someone has a different opinion from the majority, someone says said person is "running a campaign"? I could also say that everyone that is praising the kit, is campaigning for it? I simply stated my opinion and then answered to other members that quoted me. Nothing more, nothing less. It´s called a debate. I think they are still allowed. 

[dreamwriter]

16 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

The AIMS set is not for the IIC, only one options https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AIMS48P040?result-token=pFENN

I had a lengthy correspondence with John on this and added details, tweaks and corrections,  very satisfying as he was interested in my input.   

 

But, as this looks like it is going to be a sucess for Arma, and the kit is set up for otehr versions,  as in the A sprue is common parts for any Hurricane except for the very early Mk.I, the B sprue is the for any Mk.II  fuselage and the C sprue is the specfic C cannon wing tree.

So, the next logical step is a B wing tree.   There are a mass of IIB marking options. 

 

A Mk.I is more complex, as the it depends one a whole range of small changes, which in real world engineering terms are simple, but not so for a plastic kit.

 

I'm hoping they will tool up a IID/Mk.IV wing, as while less marking possibilities, only 300 IID and about 600 Mk.IV were built out 14,000, they are appealing to modellers.... big guns and rockets....!  

 

And stuff in general just costs more.   

About the only cockpit extras you might want are a Yahu instrument panel and some seat straps, or a resin seat with moulded straps.

But, if you are a serous modeller, this is a serious jump in detail and options,  I just did a long post on what options are in the kit.

There is NOTHING else of this level of attention to Hurricane detail in ANY scale.   

It's in the same way that the Eduard Spitfire VIII/IX/XVI kits have really made the closest option, the ICM kit, look distinct 2nd.   

 

Sure, you will be able to get Hasegawa kits cheaper now, but if your time is worth anything, then you would spend a lot of time to upgrade the Hase and even then you would not be able to do the rivet job, unless you wanted a lot of positve rivets.    

Or just wait a bit,  I'm sure they will get cheaper, or you will be able to get overtrees, I'm guessing as you are in Portugal you might want to do a Portuguese plane?    

 

HTH

 

 

Yes. the idea is to do the portuguese one. I have the Hasegawa kit that was meant for that

 

[dreamwriter]

6 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

They did choose something else to start their 1/48th range  - the PZL P.11 was their first 1/48th scale kit. That kit will set you back £37 and is not as comprehesive as the Hurricane. Sure it does come with PE, but Arma after a customer pole, decided to drop PE ( it would be nice if they still did some PE seatbelts because thats really all the cockpit needs extra ) , but this meant they had to improve the plastic details to make up for this.

 

If you are saying their kits are overpriced then you are saying they are charging to much for them are you not? Okay maybe not ripping us off exactly but they obvious need to make a profit to put into future projects and of course the price of everything has increase so much over the last year or so.

 

Dora Wings kits are not the same quality of Arma so it's not exactly a fair comparison, that's a bit like comparing the Modelsvit Mirage III with the Special Hobby one.

In my opinion Dora Wings are far from being short run kits. Granted, they may not be as good as Arma kits are but, still very good, way better than, to quote the example you mentioned, most of Special Hobby kits. I´m building their P-43 Lancer and so far it hás been a very nice kit to build.

 

[Ed Russell]

45 minutes ago, dreamwriter said:

when someone has a different opinion from the majority, someone says said person is "running a campaign"?

Multiple posts saying the same thing.

[Tbolt]

12 hours ago, dreamwriter said:

In my opinion Dora Wings are far from being short run kits. Granted, they may not be as good as Arma kits are but, still very good, way better than, to quote the example you mentioned, most of Special Hobby kits. I´m building their P-43 Lancer and so far it hás been a very nice kit to build.

 

 

Don't  say "to quote" and then misquote me - I didn't say most Special Hobby kits, I said one specific SH kit and compared it to another specific Modlesvit kit, just for the purpose of the quality and price difference.

 

Dora Wings are short run kits and they are short run quality. I have a number of Dora Wings kits and they have areas which are a little bit rough in surface finish and some of the smaller parts are a little rough, things which you often see with short run kits as they normally use cheaper moulds. That doesn't mean they are not very good kits ( and a lot better than what short run was 25 years ago ), but you can't expect a kit the quality of the Arma Hurricane to cost the same or less than a Dora P-47. Spending time on get clean moulds and fine detail parts takes time which adds to the cost of the more expensive moulds.

 

https://www.hyperscale.com/2021/reviews/kits/dw72027reviewbg_1.htm

 

Quote from  here "As usual with short-run kits, there are no location pins so care will be needed joining the major parts."

 

https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/cleaver/fr/tc152.htm

 

Quote from here "The Dora Wings kit makes up into a good model if you bring you’re a+ game and remember that it is at its heart a limited-run kit."

 

Quote from here https://imodeler.com/2021/05/dora-wings-1-48-seversky-p-35a/

 

"Recommended for modelers with experience with limited run kits."

 

Several places in the UK are selling the Arma kit for £40.50 ( the usually 10% off retail ) but I would rather a 1/48th WWII fighter cost £15.99 back like it did in 1993. But putting that into the BoE inflation calculator, that £15.99 today works out at £40.97 ( add a mask set and you are up to the £45 retail price ).

 

Anyway I think we are getting a bit OT.

 

[TheKinksFan]

5 hours ago, dreamwriter said:

In my opinion Dora Wings are far from being short run kits.

I have a couple of 1/72 kits in my stash, I agree that they look very good. But it's not a matter of opinion whether they are short run kits. There's a massive difference between the cost of the tooling. They wouldn't be able to release kits of lesser known subjects like P-35, P-43 etc, if the moulds would cost anywhere near as much as Arma Hobby's. 

I have listened a podcast interview with mr Evteshenko, and the runs are very limited, as one would  expect for subjects like the ones he kits. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by TheKinksFan

[Bigos]

My new article about R.R.S.T. I especially recommend the last part about painting his planes. For discussion. 

https://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2023/07/28/r-r-s-t-or-robert-ronald-stanford-tuck-1916-1987/

[Tokyo Raider]

My Arma 1/48 hurricane just arrived today.  What a great looking kit!

[RayB24]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:04 PM, dreamwriter said:

Good for you that you can do that. I, and probably many others, can't afford to buy more than one model at a time, and so, placing an order up to the value needed to get free shipping is not possible. As for the contents of the box, I'm sure one can built Arma's Hurricane OOB of course but, almost everyone likes to use some sort of extras on, for example, the cockpit. And that means having to get it extra because its not included in the box. I'm not saying the kit is crazy expensive, I'm just saying,in my opinion, its a bit expensive considering what's in the box. Its not just this one that I find expensive. There are other models I woiuld like to get but prices are just over my usual budget for models, like for example, Wingsy Kits Ki-51 or even their 109s. 

What you cant preplan like I did for nearly 8 months and then order. Sorry your argument is not really holding together. If you dont want to pay the price fine. Dont. 

[viscount806x]

Mine arrived this last week from my Hannants pre order. Lovely kit without a doubt. Minor disappointment was the gifted 3D parts weren’t there which they have been on previous Arma kits pre ordered this way. I would have pre ordered direct from Arma except here in the UK we have to be above £135 otherwise Arma won’t touch us for orders. Blow Brexit !!!

[JWM]

I always repeat that divide the total cost of model per days or evenings you play with construction and then you can see if the model is costly or not. When it costs 40 pounds/euro or dollars but it will give you a nice time for let say 20 evenings it is only 2 pounds/euro or dollars per nice evening what for majority of us look acceptable, I think.  It is different if you buy it or them  just to have bigger stash. So the main problem is not to buy even costly model but to find time to do as many of them as we like to...

Cheers

J-W

P.S. - if you want to ask - yes, my stash also keep growing...

 

 

[Stephen]

33 minutes ago, viscount806x said:

Mine arrived this last week from my Hannants pre order. Lovely kit without a doubt. Minor disappointment was the gifted 3D parts weren’t there which they have been on previous Arma kits pre ordered this way. I would have pre ordered direct from Arma except here in the UK we have to be above £135 otherwise Arma won’t touch us for orders. Blow Brexit !!!

I ordered one direct from Arma and it arrived OK.

[viscount806x]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

I ordered one direct from Arma and it arrived OK.

Hi Stephen, are you saying that you did an order for less than £135 and their checkout system accepted it ? Perhaps the policy has changed recently, it would be nice to know this if so.

[Shorty84]

1 hour ago, JWM said:

So the main problem is not to buy even costly model but to find time to do as many of them as we like to...

Yes and no. It is your main problem if you cannot put the asking price on the table to buy the kit as you have to pay the full sum at once and cannot pay in rates. Then it doesn't matter how good the hourly rate is if you cannot afford to invest the asking price upfront.

 

Still, to put it blunt, it is not the problem of the manufacturer if individual modellers cannot afford their kits. It would only be a problem if a majority of their potential customers could not/are not willing to afford it. Then their business model would not be sound and either they change it or go out of business.

 

So there are only a few options left:

• You wait until someone offers a discount which puts the kit within your budget
• You wait and save until you can afford the asking price
• You don't buy and/or get another, cheaper kit of the type from another manufacturer

Of course, it is the final asking price which is of importance for many modellers as it decides if one can afford a kit or not in the first place. Discussion of the pros and cons of the different offerings on the market comes next once it is clear you could afford it in order to determine which offering gives you the best 'bang for the buck' based on your individual priorities.

 

'Quality' is hard to quantify as everybody has different priorities in this regard. But since Dora Wings was mentioned earlier: I have kits of both manufacturers and it is true that you cannot really compare them to Arma. Dora Wings are short run (albeit very good ones) and the surface details on Arma kits, especially on the Hurricane, is way better than on any Dora Wings kit.

So the difference in price is not surprising, even without considering things like different cost structures, the differing labour costs (EU vs. Ukraine) and so on.

 

Just my 2 (Euro)cents!

 

Cheers

Markus

 

[JWM]

2 hours ago, viscount806x said:

I would have pre ordered direct from Arma except here in the UK we have to be above £135 otherwise Arma won’t touch us for orders.

Simply it is a task for some British shop to get status of official importer, order larger numbers of kits from Arma or Dora  and then distribute individual orders.... This should be a way to solve the problem, maybe...

[Stephen]

13 minutes ago, viscount806x said:

Hi Stephen, are you saying that you did an order for less than £135 and their checkout system accepted it ? Perhaps the policy has changed recently, it would be nice to know this if so.

Yes, I pre-ordered one kit with resin exhausts and it arrived last week.

[viscount806x]

3 minutes ago, JWM said:

Simply it is a task for some British shop to get status of official importer, order larger numbers of kits from Arma or Dora  and then distribute individual orders.... This should be a way to solve the problem, maybe...

Thanks, I know the reasons for it all though. Just wondered if they now accepted smaller orders from UK which wasn’t the case recently. I’m a bit late in life now to be starting an import business but cheers for the idea.