Hawker Hurricane Mk IIc 1/48 Arma Hobby

[Stephen]

19 minutes ago, viscount806x said:

Hi Stephen, are you saying that you did an order for less than £135 and their checkout system accepted it ? Perhaps the policy has changed recently, it would be nice to know this if so.

https://www.armahobby.com/blog/worldwide-delivery-by-polish-post 

[alt-92]

For clarity, that very likely is the same method us mainlanders face when ordering from the UK - you'll have to pay RM customs/VAT & clearing charges.

Still, nice of them to offer that, instead of requiring a high minimum spend.

[viscount806x]

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

https://www.armahobby.com/blog/worldwide-delivery-by-polish-post 

 

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

https://www.armahobby.com/blog/worldwide-delivery-by-polish-post 

Thankyou once again. I just tried an order and it went through. I just hope that the package doesn’t get waylaid by HMRC. Fingers crossed. Doesn’t help me get the 3D parts for the other kits regrettably.

[alt-92]

52 minutes ago, viscount806x said:

I just hope that the package doesn’t get waylaid by HMRC

Did AH leave the VAT off? Then it will get collected on arrival in the UK because it has a CN-22 form.

[viscount806x]

1 hour ago, alt-92 said:

Did AH leave the VAT off? Then it will get collected on arrival in the UK because it has a CN-22 form.

Oh dear, I was afraid of that.

[Seboo]

Pre-orders for IIc trop open:

https://www.armahobby.com/40005-hurricane-mk-iic-trop-1-48.html

[TBC]

51 minutes ago, Seboo said:

Pre-orders for IIc trop open:

https://www.armahobby.com/40005-hurricane-mk-iic-trop-1-48.html

 

 

So, the difference is decals?

[Troy Smith]

8 minutes ago, TBC said:

 

 

So, the difference is decals?

yes.

[alt-92]

17 hours ago, viscount806x said:

Oh dear, I was afraid of that.

Them's the rules. I didn't make 'em.

 

17 hours ago, Seboo said:

Pre-orders for IIc trop open:

https://www.armahobby.com/40005-hurricane-mk-iic-trop-1-48.html

Ah, good. I found the schemes in the 1st release a bit meh.

[Tomas Enerdal]

Deleted, triple post, sorry again!

Edited July 30 by Tomas Enerdal
Deleted triple post

[Tomas Enerdal]

I just pre-ordered my Trop:

-Those 3D exhaust are just a dream. 

-It will be VERY interesting to see how their (Techmod) SEAC roundels/fin flashes turn up WRT the light blue colour. I have yet to find totally pleasing roundels in 1/48...

 

I have found a Crown sketch in the SAM Datafile, showing the stirrup:

 

This looks just like the stirrup as found on BM walk around , on the never restored Finnish Mk1:

 

I have therefore studied such stirrups in as many pics as I could find and tried to make a sketch, with dimensions. The result is scaled/proportioned to the center hubs of the ARMA 1/48 kit (40004) wheel, the Barracuda Studies 1/48 Four-spoke Hurricane resin wheel (BR48427) and the Res-Kit 1/48 Early type Hurricane Wheel (RS48-0287). In all of these, the center hub has a dia of 2,4 mm. (in the pic above, the length of the stirrup is about 54% of the center hub, 1,3 mm.) Result:

 

 

 

The dimensions must be considered as approximations only, and have been rounded off. I think this approximation has no practical consequence, the stirrups are very small anyway!

 

Now:

-Hopefully some skilled 3D-modeller, with a high resolution printer will accept the challenge and try to make them for us (Has any reader of this any good contacts among such heroes?).

-We can try to design them as etch and have a sheet made. I suppose hundreds, if not thousands can be arranged on a sheet.

-Anyone interested enough, and with a good magnifier, can scratch their own.

 

How do we proceed?

[Tomas Enerdal]

(Deleted, double post, sorry)

Edited July 30 by Tomas Enerdal

[JackG]

@Tomas Enerdal great job providing the dimension estimates.  The bracket piece that would hold a 0.2mm diameter rod would best be served etched (if going this route) on a sheet of 0.15 mm thickness, which scales to 7.2 mm on the real thing.  The only detail that will be impossible to etch is that tiny hole.  In the sketch it measures out to 0.08mm diameter, which is far from the minimum requirement of 0.18mm.   

[Bozothenutter]

3 hours ago, JackG said:

@Tomas Enerdal great job providing the dimension estimates.  The bracket piece that would hold a 0.2mm diameter rod would best be served etched (if going this route) on a sheet of 0.15 mm thickness, which scales to 7.2 mm on the real thing.  The only detail that will be impossible to etch is that tiny hole.  In the sketch it measures out to 0.08mm diameter, which is far from the minimum requirement of 0.18mm.   

I agree with the etch part

On the hole, how big is the hole in a 0.2mm hypodermic needle?

 

Lot of work for a tiny detail, anybody have angels for this particular pin?

Love this btw, problem solving,  more fun than modelling 🤣

[JackG]

That hole though is just in the drawing. while the actual detail has a nut or some type fastener on either end.   At this scale and in PE difficult to replicate. as it would be just a bump on the surface.  Would require half etch process that  in turn creates the problem of unable to include the folding point on either side of the bracket.   

 

[Peter Roberts]

Sorry, am I missing something here? The Barracuda sets (1/48 and 1/72) include this part - the jacking and towing lug.

[JackG]

Not missing anything, just witnessing the limitations of PE. 

 

Referring back to where the Barracuda set was discussed it was stated their 1/48 product was slightly bigger in scale.   Using the product photo I estimate the rod itself was made to be 0.35mm instead of the calculated 0.2mm diameter.  It does look chunky and probably made bigger in order to see the details and lend some needed strength. 

 

A possible solution to include some protrusion on the sides is to make the rod slight longer.  The stirrup is then designed to hold the rod like a cradle. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

16 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

I have found a Crown sketch in the SAM Datafile, showing the stirrup:

 

6 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

the jacking and towing lug.

Ah, quality captions  from SAM,  it's a "towing or jacking lug that could be fitted to the centre of the wheel hub"

Really.  

it's a permanent fitting, which goes onto slot in the wheel well roof, to lock the undercarriage up.   the larger rectangular panel in the pic below, you can see the slot where this goes into.  It can be removed so you can take the wheel off.

 

 

 

from

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/76586-hawker-sea-hurricane/

 

16 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

The dimensions must be considered as approximations only,

Try emailing the Finnish AF museuem, I have always found them very helpful, you could ask them to measure the musuem example.

HTH

[Work In Progress]

10 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Sorry, am I missing something here? The Barracuda sets (1/48 and 1/72) include this part - the jacking and towing lug.

What you may have missed is that measurements were presented either higher in this thread or elsewhere (possibly WW2 forum) some time ago, the gist of the post being that the Barracuda sets are considerably overscale, presumably due to the extreme manufacturing issues associated with making such a small part in series production as a practical resin moulding 

Edited July 31 by Work In Progress

[Bozothenutter]

8 hours ago, JackG said:

Not missing anything, just witnessing the limitations of PE. 

 

Referring back to where the Barracuda set was discussed it was stated their 1/48 product was slightly bigger in scale.   Using the product photo I estimate the rod itself was made to be 0.35mm instead of the calculated 0.2mm diameter.  It does look chunky and probably made bigger in order to see the details and lend some needed strength. 

 

A possible solution to include some protrusion on the sides is to make the rod slight longer.  The stirrup is then designed to hold the rod like a cradle. 

 

 

 

 

 

Taurus makes REALLY  small bolts/nuts...😈

[JackG]

 

Did not want to go this route as trying to keep it simple in terms of handling tiny pieces but alright . . .

 

The smallest diameter Taurus has available for a nut/bolt is 0.3mm so that means increasing the bracket width as viewed from the side in order to avoid having an overhanging bolt.   The bottom increases to 0.44mm which does not seem that bad, but it is about a 27% increase.  

 

Some may be wondering if a 0.2mm hole can be etched to accept the rod, but unfortunately no.   There just isn't enough brass to work with, results would have the top half disappearing.  The piece would at best look like the cradle diagram I had posted.

 

 

[SleeperService]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:06 AM, JackG said:

Not missing anything, just witnessing the limitations of PE. 

 

Referring back to where the Barracuda set was discussed it was stated their 1/48 product was slightly bigger in scale.   Using the product photo I estimate the rod itself was made to be 0.35mm instead of the calculated 0.2mm diameter.  It does look chunky and probably made bigger in order to see the details and lend some needed strength. 

 

A possible solution to include some protrusion on the sides is to make the rod slight longer.  The stirrup is then designed to hold the rod like a cradle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would Albion tube be better for the rod? Make the hole in the bracket the diameter of the rod that fits inside the tube which will give you the end away from the bolt and locate one end securely. Alternatively somebody like Master or Microworld may be able to turn down hex bar to get the pin and sleeve which could then fit on a bracket as you've drawn. A very high end printer may be able to handle this instead.  

[JackG]

@SleeperService that would be the ideal way to go with the rod fitting but at the moment that piece has been determined to be only of 0.2mm diameter and I am not aware of any brass tubes of that size that are hollow. only solid.  

 

Could go with a 0.3 brass tube but there is still the problem of etching a hole into brass sheet which must be a minimum of 0.18mm in diameter.   Even then I have experienced that is too small for acid to be effective in burning a hole through.   On top of the minimum hole size for etching there also has to be a minimum  0.18mm brass around the hole.   That totals 0.54mm width which brings it to twice the size required for that part.

[Bozothenutter]

8 hours ago, JackG said:

@SleeperService that would be the ideal way to go with the rod fitting but at the moment that piece has been determined to be only of 0.2mm diameter and I am not aware of any brass tubes of that size that are hollow. only solid.  

 

Could go with a 0.3 brass tube but there is still the problem of etching a hole into brass sheet which must be a minimum of 0.18mm in diameter.   Even then I have experienced that is too small for acid to be effective in burning a hole through.   On top of the minimum hole size for etching there also has to be a minimum  0.18mm brass around the hole.   That totals 0.54mm width which brings it to twice the size required for that part.

anybody have an EDM machine? 😂

[Tomas Enerdal]

IMHO, by letting the 0.2 mm rod protrude a little on one side will be enough. It is so small anyway, I suppose a separate bolt will be impossible to see. Perhaps sanding the tip to a hexagon shape? 
It is intersting to study the various stirrups that have been displayed in this tread. Small variations can be seen if looking up close. I suspect that some may be recently produced, the yellow painted ones look a little sturdier than the  wartime ones. I have tried to look especially at period pics, I can only see a bolt on one side only.