Troy Smith

or blue? Later seat harness were blue, https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66549-raf-q-type-seatbelts/ "There was not a single "Q type"; there were several, and it might prove difficult to find out what, and how many, there were. The Spitfire, alone, had three, QK, QL, & QS, of which the first (just to confuse matters) was still a Sutton. I fear that the instructions, in that link, are incomplete, since there's no sign of the blue belts, which, very definitely, were post-war only; it's possible that blue was used to ensure that the pilot hit its release box, and not the essentially similar type on his parachute, which normally had white or khaki straps. Looking at the only sheet that I could download, illustration I matches the post-war Spitfire QS, which came into use in late 1945/6; it would not have seen use during the war, but could be used for the Tempest, provided the shoulder straps go down behind the seat. Illustration II matches the set-up in the low-back Spitfire XVI & XIV, since it's bolted directly to the head armour, and doesn't go through the bulkhead; it, too, could suit the Tempest. Illustration III (if there is one,) for the blue straps, looks as though it would be suitable for non-ejection seat aircraft like the early Meteors and Vampires; I'd recommend checking on that flip-style quick-release mechanism, (and that in instruction II) though. Edgar" "The blue harness will be the "Z type" which was fitted, from the early 1950s, to just about everything from the Chipmunk to the Hunter and is still in production today. The harness was made up of a number of components - lap straps, shoulder straps, QRB (quick release box) - and different suffix letters (from A to L) were assigned depending on the particular make up required. For example the ZF harness used in the Hunter had a QRB with cable release for connection to the the BTRU on the ejection seat and separate shoulder harnesses which individually mated with points on the parachute container of the bang seat. Other shoulder strap variations included those which which were connected to a common plate or D-ring, such as used in the Chipmunk, and others, such as that used on the Canberra, had an additional horizontal webbing strap connecting the two shoulder straps into a H configuration." Given the TR.9 were trainers, and the other IAC types were at the British, standardising strap colour for safety would be useful. Just a suggestion. PS it maybe the lighter straps are blue as well, just film/filter making them look lighter/darker? interesting article here as well on the Irish Spitfires https://www.key.aero/article/inside-story-irelands-two-seat-spitfires

Thanks. That's a Skua (or Roc) though, not a Martinet though. If only the Henley had overflown the serial would be readable....

L3357 is listed as 1 AACU, Engine cut, crash landed near Bootle, Lancs, 8.7.42, not repaired and SOC 11.1.43. So, I doubt if TSS. Of note are the sign on the UC door, and what look like a triangle marking with a stripe, which I don't recall seeing on anything else before. I'd suggest a red code letter as well. HTH

Silberweiss. Not mythical, confirmed in a document. Details are in German Eagles in Spanish Skies. Think pre war RAF silver dope in appearance. Very dated. Uppers were 70/71. The book listed above goes into detail on scheme's No single colour green. Schemes photo documented Silberweiss, 70/71 over 65, 63 over 65, and some experiments with what look like variations on bomber colours, 61/62/63 over 65, some with mono colour fuselage and/or 70/71 with additional upper colour. Very good book, over 200 photos, many not previously published. HTH

@vppelt68 @Antti_K Maybe able to help

Link? I find the IWM site hit and miss for finding things. Great find on the film though, I think the yellow 'patch' is the underside yellow taken up the rudder, it may even be able to work out the serial, there are not many Henley's , they are all L3***, and then L32** to L34** the top of the fin look like Dark Earth to me, I'd think Temperate Land myself. The upperwing roundels are of note., A look at Squadrons of The Fleet Air Arm 2nd ed, only one unit is listed wit Henley's. 771 Sq. I've not as yet found my Henley items. HTH

P3-O, ML970

Also read down the comments, I'd forgotten a tip I'd picked up about spraying the parts with primer. Then you will have no problems looking at your builds posted. Somewhere I have some info on Henley's, including a cutaway, from Flight International. I've have a look. I'm not sure if I ever pinned down the serial of this.... Ira 'Taffy' Jones "Semi-retired at the outbreak of World War Two, he trained pilots at RAF Porthcawl, where Taffy achieved possibly his most famous feat. Having no available fighters, when the air raid siren sounded he took an unarmed Hawker Henley training plane and attacked a Junkers JU88 bomber over Swansea. Armed with nothing but a flare gun, he forced the German pilot to abandon his bombing run. Afterwards, in an audience with George VI, the King remarked: "You're too old for this sort of thing Taffy, it's a young man's game." Though Mr Rogers believes Taffy's superiors were not as appreciative of his efforts." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43569955 cheers T

You will find very few Hurricane bits that can be used Tailplanes are different, being wider, fin is completely different, this well shows the wider tailplane, and the considerably heavier UC/wheels and adding outer wings is just going to cause problems, as you have joining thicker kit plastic to thinner vac, making good the join and alignment and you won't get much added detail, and if you do it will just clash with what's in the kit. While much has been said sharing of Hurricane components, the only really obvious external parts are the outer wing, but even these have no gun bay. The wheels are bigger, I'd suggest ones from a Typhoon are far closer see here for more pics https://dingeraviation.net/henley/hawker_henley.htm Props and exhausts can be used, if you do a very early Hurricane out of the full airfix fabric wing kit, you would get a leftover prop and exhausts, though it's possible the prop is bigger? sharpies can if not removed can bleed through paint later is one small point, a sharp pencil line will also work, a mechanical pencil is good for this, though the link belwo suggest a drawing pen with ink for use on plastic film @Ragtag if you have not found it already.. This is THE guide to vacforms The main thing is get all the bits cut out and fitting, and then add detail. Be a good idea to get to check the fit of the canopy as well. I have a Formaplane Henley stashed, I've looked at it a few times and thought. "that's going to take some work" I've part done 3 vacs, and got bogged down for various reasons, very much real modelling.... It's great once you get going but you better enjoy scratch building! An in flight model maybe easier, simplifying the UC issues, and adding crew is great way of filling up cockpits Is there anywhere in Canada that stock Slater's Micro Strip? Possibly model railways, just they do a mix pack of microstrip that is really helpful in scratch building, It's very hard to cut thin strips from plastic sheet, as it tends to curl. Also look for Evergreen #217 assorted rod and tube, again, really useful, and the only mix pack they do. HTH

The only examples of non black spinners on Hurricanes in the first half of 1940 I am aware of are flight coloured ones seen on 85 Sq and 87 Sq Hurricanes in France see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235118672-87-sq-hurricanes-france-1939-40/ And various 85 Sq pics, like the famous one in May 1940. 85 Sq look to have continued using flight coloured spinners in July 1940, and it seems that 17 Sq when sharing the base at Debden also used flight coloured spinners I recall a poster on here who said Brothers told him his spinner was painted blue this one https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235103861-pete-brothers-hurricane-148-decals-needed/#elControls_4284974_menu @tonywalton whose not been on here in years ,"the fuselarge roundel was 35inch A1 with a 5 inch yellow ring added, not the usual 7inch. The colours were the Gloster lighter blue. Fin Flash had a full forward part - red. The spinner , rotol, was painted medium blue, and the rear view mirror was a car rear view mirror screwed to the inside of the canopy frame , not the external one. Dont forget the Blue Peter flag under the cockpit. I have verified all these details , as I knew Peter Brothers. " "I did make a typing error in reference to the fuselarge roundel , it was a 35 inch "A" (red,white ,blue rings )roundel which had the 5 inch yellow ring added , check a photo of VY;R to see what i mean," Note 'medium blue' does not sound like Sky Blue or Sky by any stretch of the imagination. It may have been pre war roundel blue, or just a mix to a colour Peter Brothers liked. Tricky one, some of 17 Sq photos look to have a spinner matching the undersides, possibly a misunderstanding of the undersides being Sky, and including the spinner. They could also be examples of flight coloured spinners.... Now, YB-C, possibly white , see comments about Sq Ldr using white below, as it 's the Sq Ldr, note pennant below cockpit sill P3025 I M III 27MU 16-6-40 17Sq 23-6-40 Unable to lower u/c Debden CB 15-7-40 SqLdr RIG MacDougall safe 43GDA 24-7-40 ATO 29-7-40 10MU 24-8-40 56Sq 29-8-40 10MU 30-8-40 111Sq Damaged by Bf109 over Channel and abandoned Newchurch Kent CE 7-9-40 Sgt TY Wallace inj 49MU salvaged nr Ashford 14-9-40 this shot look far more like the underside Probably yellow P2558 I M III 27MU 12-12-39 213Sq 29-2-40 27MU 3-3-40 17Sq 6-6-40 Overshot landing Debden CA 5-8-40 Sgt LH Bartlett safe 6OTU 25-8-40 13MU 10-11-40 56OTU 12-12-40 10MU 9SFTS 21-7-41 e/f and caught fire abandoned Leighterton nr Babdown CE 28-8-41 LAC DP Smith safe FH379:30 17 Squadron 04 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr P3033 I M III 27MU 16-6-40 17Sq 25-6-40 AC 18-8-40 Became lost ran over rut in f/l Llanymynech CB 1-10-40 Sgt G Griffiths safe. e/f belly landed Pantymwyn nr Mold CB 3-10-40 Sgt G Griffiths safe [same accident as 1st?] R-R 11-10-40 27MU 15-11-40 260Sq 8-12-40 607Sq 26-4-41 55OTU 22-7-41 Heavy landing u/c collapsed and tipped on nose Usworth AC 18-8-41 Sgt AR White (RCAF) safe 43GDA 55OTU 31-12-41 CB mi 15-6-42 ATO riw 16-6-42 22MU 19-7-42 56OTU 19-2-43 2TEU 24-2-44 CE 23-6-44 gloss red 17 Squadron 09 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr 17 Squadron 07 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr gloss yellow? Note YB-F is fabric winged. 17 Squadron 13 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr 17 Squadron 12 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr yellow 17 Squadron 17 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr 17 Squadron 16 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr probably yellow? 17 Squadron 03 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr P3166 VY-Q of Sq Ldr Peter Townsend has a white spinner, seen above, which ties in with pre use of white by Sq Ldr, famous photo of 11 Sq in 1938, where the top half of the numbers is flight colour by Sq Ldr Gillan has all white numbers, you can clearly see the Sq Ldr pennant L1581 with blue, Hurricane behind in red P3166 VY-Q, white spinner 85 Squadron 49 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr P2923, VY-R, probably red with white stripes 85 Squadron 27 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr Stripes look darker here compared to above 85 Squadron 38 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr Probably VY-N, I spent some time squinting at what can be seen of the serial, you can kinda see the last 3 digits. Given the date, and prop, it's a P**** serial. The last 3 digits look to be 87? (you can see the bottom of the 8, the are no P284x, blackout block, so can only be a 7, and Air Britain has only one that 'fits' date and Sq, this, P2879 Anywaym looks to be yellow 85 Squadron 39 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr P2722, VY-H 85 Squadron 55 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr red or blue? 85 Squadron 54 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr N2359, YB-J, yellow VY-K, possibly red, compare to fin flash possibly black, note also YB-O, red? and another Hurricane to the left with a very light spinner, yellow? 85 Squadron 65 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr There were 3 Hurricanes coded YB-W P2754 IM III 5MU 27-3-40 CFF 20-5-40 17Sq 21-5-40 Stalled onto ground u/c collapsed Debden CB 27-6-40 P/O DC Leary safe R-R 1-7-40 22MU 3-8-40 615Sq 19-8-40 317Sq 20-2-41 11GrpCF 30-7-41 287Sq 286Sq 3-12-41 CB 2-6-42 mi 3-6-42 DeH riw 11-6-42 22MU 17-9-42 59OTU 1-10-42 56OTU 25-10-42 Taxied into stationary Master T8752 Tealing CA 18-11-42 Sgt DE Chambers safe. Hit V6913 during dummy attack and crashed Maryton Farm nr Montrose CE 27-4-43 FSgt DWW Bull (RAAF)+ FH676:50 I'll add a pic later. P3482 I M III 19MU 11-5-40 [Missing 31-5-40] 17Sq 30-6-40 'YB-W' Caught fire on practice flight crashed in wood and dbf Elsenham Hall Essex CE 15-7-40 P/O PL Dawbarn inj 17 Squadron 20 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr and P3878 P3878 I M III 5MU 22-6-40 17Sq 1-7-40 Damaged by Bf109 and abandoned off Chatham Kent CE 24-9-40 F/O HAC Bird-Wilson inj note B Flight, so yellow is perhaps an option?

If it was just the Blenhiem then it would seem a good explanation. That there are Hurricanes showing a similar washed out look suggests that light reflected up from snow is more plausible in this case than toned down markings. Thank you for the additional information, very interesting.

Note Hurricane in background, which looks to have the same appearance, 'washed out' look, which I suggest is an effect from light reflected off snow. I've not heard of the PRU using non standard marking colours this early in their existence, if the date is right, some point Jan-March 1940. No notes of this on the PRU drawings in the thread held at Kew. Again, @ben_m ? Always interested to know more. HTH

bomber camo was supposed to be Dark Green/Ocean Grey uppers, over MSG, though the production line streamlined to just doing Night Intruder and PRU. Pics of Percival built B.XVI show DG/OG uppers. I found the B/W before the color pics, the blue spinners are a neat detail this is listed a B.XVI from https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/focus-late-war-mosquitoes I'm not finding pics of a B.XVI with black undersides, but Lee @The wooksta V2.0 would be able to advise further? note many Mosquito pics show covers over the wheels too protect from oil drips, as seen on ML980, Lee mentioned this recently and how it's not seen on models which could be an interesting addition? HTH

the dark wash isn't helping. wise words. As used post war.... Irish, in grey-green, two colour roundels, and aluminium with 3 colour roundels, Indian, Netherlands, both in aluminium, this is what CMR offered in their resin kit from https://www.internetmodeler.com/2008/september/first-looks/CMR_SpitfireTR9.php and warbirds.... The Battle of Britain film one posted above would be popular for those who like some Spanish school weathering...

the ground is mostly covered in snow. along with a low sun angle, This is messing up the usual assumptions, and the exposure, as it it lighting the usual shadow area. note the bleached appearance of the roundels, and note the Hurricane in the background, same washed out appearance. Note how the shadow of the wing and tailplane is lighter at the lower section of the fuselage from light reflected from the snow. @ckw who is a photographer maybe able to explain this better, but it's photography with bright light on snow is tricky to get the exposure right due to up lighting. well, they stuck with it. Evidently it worked. @ben_m who posted this image and is interested in PRU may know more about the reason for choices. And PRU did use other camouflage when it was required. the Coastal scheme is something else, low level over sea, and it took a while before that became standard. possibly the unusual lighting, possibly orthochromatic film, which makes yellow appear near black.