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Troy Smith

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    Lewes. Sussex
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    Hurricanes...

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  1. No. Aircraft bought by the British pre lead lease were painted in US made MAP Equivalent. Aircraft then supplied under lend lease carried on being painted in the US made MAP equivalent, often while other US manufacturers supplying the British with lend-lease were then using substitute colors. Example, Grumman carried on using US MAP equivalent, (Wildcat, Hellcat, Avenger) while when Eastern made Avengers and Wildcats, they used US substitute ANA colors. Types for the USAAF got US standard schemes. There were US types made for the British that then got diverted to the US, in US made MAP equivalent colors. in the case of a P-40 in North Africa, all the above could apply, and you still have not said if you are doing a RAF or USAAF P-40, or when, in the case of the RAF, Temperate Land Scheme P-40's did get repainted, but not all. Later P-40's in US applied desert scheme would not USAAF P-40's in OD/NG got repainted with US Sand in theatre. Again, the question is vague. You just said YOU possibly have a plane in mind, I don't know what you are planning, from many years of reading and posting on here, your best bet unless you want to get into a long discussion about what was applied to when, and, when, and why, and the exceptions, ask specifically, as the answer for your questions could be a pre lend Lease Tomahawk Mk.I, in 1941 to a Lend Lease Kitty hawk Mk.III in 1942 to a USAAF P-40F in 1943 which are all possible in your question, all have different, and possibly complex answers..... HTH
  2. RAF or USAAF? As with all these questions, be specific, ideally what actual plane(s) you are thinking about. Examples, early RAF P-40's were delivered in US made MAP Temperate Land Scheme paints, but did get repainted with RAF desert paints. later models as posted by @BS_w had Du-Pont MAP equivalent. Some USAAF P-40's were OD/NG, but got repainted in theatre. Did they get some in MAP equivalent paints for desert use? @Dana Bell may get some answers.
  3. probably not, but I wonder how much ground effect helps on this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics) Still very impressive flying....
  4. Hi Kevin. Maybe mythical. the 'myth' bit I was referring to was the idea it copied an Italian scheme for confuse the Italians on the ground... Profile only schemes This gets discussed here on occasion, (and is the reason for my sig line) the short is there are profiles from specifically Air Craft In Profile monographs that have been repeated so often they are 'fact' There are plenty of examples of these schemes becoming 'fact', or, more to the point, being copied and then copied again, so they are in every other book and and turn up in searches so often that it must be right..... and plenty of model companies are not noted for diligent research either.... the series was very popular, and the colour profiles were a major plus point. but this was 1965/66 They are all scanned here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Aircraft-Profiles if you fancy a browse. I don't know how much there were driven by the rise in popularity of modelling, and it being taken more seriously, certainly old Airfix Magazine from the similar era have many conversion articles, as well as the start of aftermarket decal sheets, and then vacform kits... One of the first popular and researched series on camouflage and markings were the Ducimus guides, scanned here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings Note these are from around 1970, and are the result in part of wartime information being declassified! The Britis ones are better than the US ones, the only with some errors is the RAF Mustangs one. One that is a classic 'profile only' scheme is the Kuttlewasher Night Reaper scheme.... see here https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234976286-hurricane-mk-iic-flown-by-km-kuttlewascher/#elControls_1889582_menu which the BBMF copied exactly. Note comments on the black wing panel. Of course you can now do PZ865 in these colours as it's a legit scheme for PZ865..... for more on the likely scheme http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2020/10/13/karel-kutterwascher-the-most-effective-hurricane-night-fighter-pilot/ no actual overall image, but reference to how other aircraft were finished at the time. Indeed. Again, this is a scheme that did exist, and was used, but as the link I gave, has been revised. The 'italian mimic' is till a common explanation. The problem is lack of a supporting photo of BP592 (which was a IIC that served with 213 Sq, so that much is correct) . There maybe a photo, but it's not surfaced since. Meanwhile the profile keeps doing the rounds. I emailed Fly Models to complain about their decal research for the 1/32 nd kits, as they just rehash profiles. Note in the 'Red Elephant' link there are known profiles that are also amazingly wrong, like HV538, the profile is wrong in nearly every detail. And, yes, Fly did that one as well in their IIc kit It is a very good bit of modelling and display, and as some of the above might shown, there is still plenty of misinformation about out there... there was a Hurricane book for modellers done in 2020 that still makes me seethe about the sheer amount if cobblers in it... and, yes, it has a profile of AK-G/BP592 with the 'spaghetti nose' , and BE581 as 'night reaper' and the 'red elephant' scheme..... along with many other that are wrong in varying degrees. of course, this is whole 'rabbit hole' of information you may just find all too much, there are many thread on here on these kind of details, when all you want to do is paint your model in peace.... and a casual search of the serial in this case you would have found plenty of 'evidence' of that scheme... And it very easy to get paralysed by it all. I try to not to be a joyless modelling nazi, I like research and teasing out this information, and do my best to answer questions .. I have really enjoyed @ModelingEdmontonian build thread https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235090547-hawker-hurricanes-around-the-world/ lots of kits done without getting too bogged down, while still interested in answers to questions. And, at the end of it, your model, your choice, if you are happy with it, that's the important part, and I hope some of the above is of interest/use. cheers T
  5. Myth. From a post war guess looking at B/W photos and similarity to the Italian camo, though likely for similar effect, head on concealment, and assuemed same/similar colours seems that the base was aluminium paint, with blue and purple blotches... see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234922498-hurricane-spaghetti-scheme-i-said-it-was-blue/&/topic/234922498-hurricane-spaghetti-scheme-i-said-it-was-blue/page-1?hl= spaghetti scheme there are photo later in the thread. They are all Mk.I's though. BP592 is an example of scheme that is from thread on here, a 'profile only special' if you are at all interested in these debates you may find this an interesting read https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235009172-riaf-hurricane-with-elephant-nose-art-did-it-exist/ Our site search is not great, but if you add Britmodeller into a search term that searches here well. Flaps were retracted after landing. You got fined a round of drinks in the mess for forgetting. This is why photos of Hurricanes and Spitfires with dropped flaps are very very rare, they did get dropped for servicing, Your model, your choice of course. After all my witter, I must say your model is very neatly built, painted and creatively displayed.
  6. unless you have to have a Mk.VI NOW! you might want to wait, and see if Eduard do their own issue of it. Or ask them. Sure you can cross the V and II kits, but you end up with a lot of leftover parts. Does the Mk.II come with the tropical filter parts? As have been mentioned, there were conversions for the older tool kit by Eduard, which has a wing that is noticeably too thick, the MDC one mentioned by @Welkin has the intakes split horizontally, so could be made to fit, the other conversion by Airwaves has them as one piece. HTH
  7. Garbage in-garbage out. The researcher and CAD designer likely knows nothing about the subject. And it's not checked by anyone who does. And I doubt if it greatly affects Trumpeters sales. Bear in mind they made mistakes on aircraft they actually have in museums and/or made, eg MiG-21/J-7.... Back in 2010, an employee of Trumpeter joined here, and posted a thread on their planned Spiteful/Seafang kit. Lots of response, and help and information was given for fault seen on the CAD images. Result. Nothing. No information used, no glitches corrected. They had the chance to get accurate info, and basically free error checking and set up pathway for future projects.... so we have since had a series of British subjects made with a load of flaws .... Spiteful/Seafang, Dh Hornet/Sea Hornet, Albacore, Vampire, Firefly, Defiant, Sea Vixen (these two after the Airfix kits so not such a problems) I've probably forgotten a couple Sad thing is, they make decent kits, as in well moulded and engineered, you raved about the clear parts... so with the right info you get a great package.... Their Wyvren, and to a lesser extent, Sea hawk, have been raved about, (research possibly by Monochrome in Japan) I'd love to know who did the research on their 1/24th Hurricane, as they really did a good job on shapes, it has some faults, but the main big bits are just wow. And they never scaled it down.... though Hobby Boss have just announced a 1/48t kit. (apparently one florr of the factory is Trumpeter, the other is Hobby Boss... basically the same company) I read somewhere that Song ended up working for Kittyhawk. one last thing, with your trials on the rudder, if you have the time, read this https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=1216 link to pdf donw the page "My main aim is to liberate the plastic modeller from the kit, to show him what can be done and to assure him that the satisfaction he may get from his kit model is nothing compared to that he would experience from 'free' modelling." It's old, but Harry Woodman was one of the people who pushed plastic modelling to where is is today, I have a 1976 Scale Models mag where he telling you how have to make photo etch, and has a printed template for parts included... It's well worth a read to see various techniques and methods... great one about making engine cylinder by wrapping wire around sprue, supporting it in balsa trough, heating it under the grill, and then letting it cool so you when you remove the wire you get fine cooling fins, and much more. Some can be done more easily in other ways now, like 3-d printing, but there are things that may just quicker to make... hope of interest
  8. Brighton, or Brighton area, (I'm guessing your are flying in/out of Gatwick?) Sadly, nothing of note in Brighton AFAIK , I don't know there is even a toyshop with a model department, There is a place in Worthing, https://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk. but it's mainly RC (I've not been) and small railway shop with a few random kits in Eastbourne, Train Times, there is another place in Eastbourne which is a craft shop with some kits that I have not been too. There is a shop in Dorking https://www.dorkingmodels.co.uk Never been, but sounds good, and do-able from Gatwick it seems, look to be 1/2 hr train journey from Gatwick, but nowhere near Brighton. Bit more out the way, Aviation Bookshop in Tunbridge Wells, https://www.aviation-bookshop.com/product-category/new-arrivals/# the website is playing up, but well worth the trip if you like aviation books, as they have a jaw dropping amount of stock, they usually have a selection of 2nd hand kits. HTH
  9. I think this is a myth. AFAIK, there were no factory painted nightfighters., so they didn't get much, if any stencilling FWIW, the scheme on the Aeromaster sheet is this, Ian Gleed's LK-A, when based in the Scilly isles in winter 40/41, a Mk.I, same plane as this, this is few months before, in TLS see here and https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/32588-hawker-hurricane-mk-i-of-i-r-gleed-87-sqn The Monogram kit is closest to a Mk.IIA There was a warbird done in these colours a while back (crashed in 2007) note the odd non standard prop/spinner, probably from a Lockheed Constellation. PS there was later BE500, a Mk.IIc, also overall Night. Hurricane Mk.V....................... 11 Aug. 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr the close up reveals the paint flaking on the canopy, which flexes as it moves, showing the original green under the black. Again, a MU or unit repaint, with no visible stencilling
  10. Troy Smith

    Revell spares?

    You may as well just ask, but as a general guide, is the kit currently available? I don't think those Luft 46 kits have been for a while so probably not. HTH
  11. galvanising is a zinc coating applied to steel, to stop corrosion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization The Zinc quickly surface quickly oxidises to a light grey. It does not need painting. The wires to the left on this image are the colour of galvanised metal Fairey Swordfish c1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr I'd also @iang on this.
  12. I don't think so, if you can only in a limited set of marking options, from my reading of this. http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/wildcatfaaba_1.htm
  13. Give me hope that that after having done the research, it will be scaled down to 1/48. was mooted as 100th release in the 1/48th armour series. But wasn't. Has an interesting service history, Korea, Vietnam, Middle east... IIRC they are all similar versions, (ie do-able easily from basic sprues)...
  14. this is one of many photo taken at Neubiberg, when JG52 flew in to surrender to the west, from different angles, on different cameras at different times, (it was a popular backdrop for GI photos).... shame no-one was using color film but images keep creeping out from long forgotten albums.... Anyway, it's worth have a looking at mor to see how they appear. This was posted in discussion for the colour image of the Erla G-10 or 14/AS I posted above, by Michael Ullman, noted German researcher "RLM-Doktrin was always Never waste raw Material. Is obsolete Material like RLM 78 in 1943 (No longer a Need To produce Tropical Aircraft) available they Must used up the RLM 78 Stock before they can Order News paints. Documents That these deviations describes are Not discovered until now. The other 50% are the raw Material shortages. Everything what was available was used. To extend low Stocks I am realy shure that they Mixed paints To produce paints To fulfill there deliberiert obligations . Under this circumstances it is possible that the Color photo showing Parts of the Aircraft painted in 79." It's a private group about late war 109's, for those that are members, photo and discussion is here https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158427792665687&set=g.2365011260188196 a good example of possible 'bitsa' subcontractor permutation is this Bf 109K4R3 9.JG3 White 8 WNr 332884 Gabi note the cowling is likely 75 and a light grey (maybe they unidentified primer, maybe using up 77) the main fuselage maybe 81/82, with the 'greeny' 76, the tail, subcontracted, 75/82 with a blue 76 just visible. These tail colours were confirmed in the Monogram monograph on the Bf109 K, which had a relic of the wrk nummer of a another JG 3 K-4 which had been cut out and kept. the page in the original book has a colour image of '334176' the scan is B/W, Yes, I am aware it's like counting angles dancing on a pinhead, but the sheer amount of information now widely available compared to when I was first interested as teenage school boy, 40 yeas back, note, the Monogram monographs, now available as scans, were pretty much the cutting edge of publically available research. Note also the image of the K-4 with what look to be a very light uppersurface, this is a plane in the background of another one of the Neubiberg photos. see here for a gallery of these see here to see how scarce K photos were back then https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Monogram-Close-up/Messerschmitt-Bf-109K If anyone reading this really wants to see how many changes there have been, this is a scan of the 1966 Aircraft in Profile Bf109G/K monograph https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Aircraft-Profiles/Germany/WWII/Messerschmitt-Bf109G-Gustav when there really was no idea what a 'refined cowl' G was, or what a K-4 looked like, or how to identify one. EG, the below, ANOTHER Neubiberg image, showing a G-14 as a K-4, and just visible by the lower prop tip... a K-4 quite possible the one in the blow up just to finish, a couple more late war 109s in colour this one? weird exposure, or wings in different colours, that starboard wing look pretty green in this....
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