2nd hand prices

[bentwaters81tfw]

36 minutes ago, Mr T said:

 nostalgic baby Boomers dying off. 

There you have it.

[ElectroSoldier]

In the mind of a seller the used price follows the new price so as new prices climb so does the value of their old kit.
 

Im lookig at the Trumpy F-100D kits at the minute. You can get a new or used one for the same price right now.

 

As the recession bites the prices will climb as people get desperate for money which is where they are now then they will fall as they start to realise you can buy food with an unrealised nest egg model kit.

[Nocoolname]

I think this goes both ways though. While I’ve seen some second hand prices that have genuinely left me scratching my head I’ve also seen instances where potential buyers were expecting ridiculous discounts. I had an item going on a certain place that was already practically half the price of the others on offer. Granted they were new and mine had a box with some wear but that was the only difference yet I would still get asked how low would I go while other kits that were both long out of production and packed to the rafters with AM just had watchers waiting for what? For it to drop to free? 
 

So there are instances where both sellers ‘and’ buyers will try what they can and the simple thing is if you don’t like the price, don’t buy. 

[ckw]

I wonder what would happen if there was a reverse ebay ... basically you post what you're looking for and a starting price that you're willing to pay ... offers would then come in with the price the seller is willing to sell for, and lowest offer wins.

 

Currently I think the  market is distorted by collectors with deep pockets. and because a genuinely rare item goes for a high price this encourages others to over-value their own items.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

 

[Noel Smith]

Same old story.

EBay sellers and some show traders asking unrealistic prices for second hand kits hoping that there will be someone desperate enough out there to pay what they want.

Buyers who want something for next to nothing!

[Farmer matt]

I would suggest that show traders would generally have more intention of actually moving stock on than an e-bay seller who only has to sit and wait for a bite.

For traders secondhand stock is a different calculation than new stock, as the price paid is more open to variables.

With new stock, the price paid will be that from the wholesaler, which will be pretty much aligned with what everyone else has paid. Therefore, your minimum retail should also be aligned.

For secondhand stock, the retail price is the result of an equation along the lines of 'how much did I pay for it / how much do I think I can get for it/ how long can I be bothered to cart it around'.

It would perhaps also be fair to point out that thanks to certain tv programmes, everyone now feels entitled to demand a 'best price' no matter how reasonable the ticket. The natural reaction to that is to increase the ticket.

However, to borrow from several antique dealers I know, the response to 'what's your best price on that?' is a sum some way higher than the ticket. It is usually enough to deter those just asking for the sake of it.

 

Matt

 

[ckw]

59 minutes ago, Farmer matt said:

For secondhand stock, the retail price is the result of an equation along the lines of 'how much did I pay for it / how much do I think I can get for it/ how long can I be bothered to cart it around'.

It would perhaps also be fair to point out that thanks to certain tv programmes, everyone now feels entitled to demand a 'best price' no matter how reasonable the ticket. The natural reaction to that is to increase the ticket.

However, to borrow from several antique dealers I know, the response to 'what's your best price on that?' is a sum some way higher than the ticket. It is usually enough to deter those just asking for the sake of it.

 

I think it is a bit more complex than that as traders are selling to both collectors and builders. A collector requires a particular boxing, so the price is largely affected by condition and rarity. Builders are more usually looking for a subject, so if a new example of subject X is released, then the used value to the builder will be affected by that. If the used item is more than the new item, then the trader is loosing a larger part of their market unless the price is adjusted downward. 

 

In my experience, some traders price optimistically (perhaps targeting the collectors) and I have found them open to negotiation, particularly if you are buying multiple items.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Pete in Lincs]

This morning I saw an Airfix Marina on the bay at around £130 with 4 bids on it.

[Farmer matt]

Well that's probably four more bids than a 1:1 version would get!

 

Matt

[3DStewart]

2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

This morning I saw an Airfix Marina on the bay at around £130 with 4 bids on it.

 

I don't know how truly rare it is, but that price isn't exceptional for genuinely rare Airfix 1:32 cars.

[cmatthewbacon]

2 hours ago, Farmer matt said:

Well that's probably four more bids than a 1:1 version would get!

 

Matt

And about 4 times what anyone would pay!

best,

M.

[Pete in Lincs]

There's never a pianist around when you need one...or a crane...

[IanHx]

7 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

This morning I saw an Airfix Marina on the bay at around £130 with 4 bids on it.

 

Give it a few more minutes and an Airfix Grand Piano will drop on it.....   

[stevej60]

There,s a 1/72 Airfix Thunderstreak on E-bay for £75 right now that's optimism!

[flyboy2610]

But you know, when something is 'vintage' that at least doubles the value! 💲💲

[Head in the clouds.]

This is a very interesting thread and it reflects what I have seen this weekend at MK show and my own experiences from previous purchases.The subject matter that I like to build does leave me open to prices that can be inflated and that often over used word 'rare'. One of my previous excursions onto the net involved me looking for those unfamiliar kits I like to build and I found one, made by Jach,  a 1/72 Baynes Bat, this guy wanted £69 for it. I looked at his other items and he had several that were all well over £100 for 1/72 kits of prototypes in resin, at my last look he still had many of these for sale. I decided I was not going to pay so cast my net wider and found another Baynes Bat at HJC in Japan for approx £18 inc P&P, well, it would be rude not too so I purchased it. Yesterday at MK I found another but with no price but it didn't matter as I already had one.

 

Still at MK, while browsing the secondhand kit stalls I came across some older Airfix kits of which I was interested in but at one I felt his prices were a little high so I moved on. The next stall had the very same kit for nearly half the price all within 20 paces and I felt his prices were more realistic. He even had an Airfix Shackleton for £15😲.

 

What I have drawn from my buying experiences are this;

1/  If you feel that someone is asking for too much keep digging and don't stop, you are no better or worse off by doing nothing but sooner or later you will get the right opportunity. As we all know we are an aging bunch of hobbyists and collections are coming onto the market all the time.

2/ Sellers on ebay sometimes charge what I feel are inflated P&P charges, again, wait or make an offer, you never know.

3/ Someone has already mentioned tatty boxes, my feelings here are that I often see the same boxes year in year out with these secondhand sellers, if the boxes came with road  miles akin to air miles the seller could fly to Australia and retire, why spend money moving them from A-B back to A then next week A-C and back to A. Drop your prices, move the old stock and refresh with newer stock thereby keeping your goods in better nick to sell and giving us different things to look at. This is probably where the higher cost of seconds comes from, storage, transport and man hours.

 

The one kit that exemplifies my thoughts are the Airfix 1/48th Merlin helicopter, about £40-45 new but not a good seller as it came with only one colour scheme, Green. A good kit as I have one but seconds are still selling for £40, it didn't sell first time around so why will it sell second time around for a similar price? If mine came up for sale it is because I want it gone, for funds, for space or for a thinning exercise so I would price it accordingly.

 

Now, I know there are nuances to much of what I have said and these are only my opinions and may not be those of others which is fine, we all are looking for different things but want we all want is a good price for it.

 

Happy shopping folks.

 

[Noel Smith]

The second hand prices of some of the stuff at the MK show over the weekend ranged from ridiculous to reasonable.

One second hand trader had a nice Airfix TR4 on sale for a reasonable tenner. Somehow I got distracted by an old acquaintance who stopped me to have a chat and carried on walking around the show. I remembered to go back to that trader at around 3.15 pm to see if the kit was still there to buy and found that the trader had already cleared the pitch completely and gone ! Nearly an hour before the show closed ! 

Some show traders need to get a grip on how they stack stuff to avoid damage. I tried to pull a kit out to have a look at it and could not even move it because the weight of the stuff on top of it. Thought, this kit is probably crushed in the box so walked on.

I can remember a trader at the MK show a few years back when they used another school premises for their show really had lots of kits that he sold at good knock down prices. Needless to say at the end of the day there was hardly anything left on his table!

[Giorgio N]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:08 AM, Head in the clouds. said:

This is a very interesting thread and it reflects what I have seen this weekend at MK show and my own experiences from previous purchases.The subject matter that I like to build does leave me open to prices that can be inflated and that often over used word 'rare'. One of my previous excursions onto the net involved me looking for those unfamiliar kits I like to build and I found one, made by Jach,  a 1/72 Baynes Bat, this guy wanted £69 for it. I looked at his other items and he had several that were all well over £100 for 1/72 kits of prototypes in resin, at my last look he still had many of these for sale. I decided I was not going to pay so cast my net wider and found another Baynes Bat at HJC in Japan for approx £18 inc P&P, well, it would be rude not too so I purchased it. Yesterday at MK I found another but with no price but it didn't matter as I already had one.

 

Still at MK, while browsing the secondhand kit stalls I came across some older Airfix kits of which I was interested in but at one I felt his prices were a little high so I moved on. The next stall had the very same kit for nearly half the price all within 20 paces and I felt his prices were more realistic. He even had an Airfix Shackleton for £15😲.

 

What I have drawn from my buying experiences are this;

1/  If you feel that someone is asking for too much keep digging and don't stop, you are no better or worse off by doing nothing but sooner or later you will get the right opportunity. As we all know we are an aging bunch of hobbyists and collections are coming onto the market all the time.

2/ Sellers on ebay sometimes charge what I feel are inflated P&P charges, again, wait or make an offer, you never know.

3/ Someone has already mentioned tatty boxes, my feelings here are that I often see the same boxes year in year out with these secondhand sellers, if the boxes came with road  miles akin to air miles the seller could fly to Australia and retire, why spend money moving them from A-B back to A then next week A-C and back to A. Drop your prices, move the old stock and refresh with newer stock thereby keeping your goods in better nick to sell and giving us different things to look at. This is probably where the higher cost of seconds comes from, storage, transport and man hours.

 

The one kit that exemplifies my thoughts are the Airfix 1/48th Merlin helicopter, about £40-45 new but not a good seller as it came with only one colour scheme, Green. A good kit as I have one but seconds are still selling for £40, it didn't sell first time around so why will it sell second time around for a similar price? If mine came up for sale it is because I want it gone, for funds, for space or for a thinning exercise so I would price it accordingly.

 

Now, I know there are nuances to much of what I have said and these are only my opinions and may not be those of others which is fine, we all are looking for different things but want we all want is a good price for it.

 

Happy shopping folks.

 

 

Your experience with the Bat confirms one of the rules I often mention when discussing second hand kits: always check outside the Country ! Of course buying from abroad will add more expenses in postage and potential fees but what is desirable in a place may not be as desirable somewhere else and this may result in some good bargains.

I remember for example when Classic Airframes stopped production, their 1/48 DH Hornet suddenly started fetching increasingly high prices in the UK (afterall it was the only ever injected plastic kit of the type in this scale). At the same time there were shops in Italy that were trying to get rid of this kit because nobody wanted them and I picked mine for €25 from a shop at a model show (prices in the UK were over £80), The next year the same shop at the same show still had a few left with a €20 tag on them.

Same for the Akatombo Bristol 188 I mentioned before: I paid €40 for it that of course is not pocket money. I wonder however what a kit like that may cost in the UK where the subject would interest many more modellers.

Similarly I've seen the opposite, with certain kits of Italian subjects changing hands for high prices here while in say Germany they can be found for much less.

Sure many modellers today have opened their scope beyond their own country but there are many that for one reason or the other don't venture far from home when buying. Anyone who's looking for something potentially rare should IMHO be ready to search far away.

 

 

Edited May 28 by Giorgio N

[spruecutter96]

On 5/23/2024 at 9:12 AM, Farmer matt said:

to borrow from several antique dealers I know, the response to 'what's your best price on that?' is a sum some way higher than the ticket. It is usually enough to deter those just asking for the sake of it.

 

What an UTTERLY ridiculous policy! Do these traders want to sell their stock, or do they enjoy carting them around all the shows, year after year?

 

When I sell at shows, I have two prices in mind. The price stuck to the box and the reduced price I'd actually sell it at, if they ask for a discount. .

 

I just don't get the attitude of some traders....

 

Cheers. 

 

Chris.  

[Farmer matt]

No, it is not a sales deterrent, it is a reaction against those who insist on trying to knock the price of something just because they have seen it done on Bargain Hunt, rather than making a genuine offer or enquiry.

Yes, they do want to sell stock, it is usually said in an amiable way and actually often breaks the ice and gets the sale at full ticket.

Perhaps also the character of both sides is slightly different than at model shows.

 

Matt

[kiseca]

There's that old legend that David Brown was asked by a friend to sell him a then new Aston Martin DB6 for cost price. Brown gladly agreed, and the next day the friend got an invoice for £1000 above the sticker price.

 

Edited because my spelling was awful!

Edited May 28 by kiseca

[Head in the clouds.]

8 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Your experience with the Bat confirms one of the rules I often mention when discussing second hand kits: always check outside the Country ! Of course buying from abroad will add more expenses in postage and potential fees but what is desirable in a place may not be as desirable somewhere else and this may result in some good bargains.

I remember for example when Classic Airframes stopped production, their 1/48 DH Hornet suddenly started fetching increasingly high prices in the UK (afterall it was the only ever injected plastic kit of the type in this scale). At the same time there were shops in Italy that were trying to get rid of this kit because nobody wanted them and I picked mine for €25 from a shop at a model show (prices in the UK were over £80), The next year the same shop at the same show still had a few left with a €20 tag on them.

Same for the Akatombo Bristol 188 I mentioned before: I paid €40 for it that of course is not pocket money. I wonder however what a kit like that may cost in the UK where the subject would interest many more modellers.

Similarly I've seen the opposite, with certain kits of Italian subjects changing hands for high prices here while in say Germany they can be found for much less.

Sure many modellers today have opened their scope beyond their own country but there are many that for one reason or the other don't venture far from home when buying. Anyone who's looking for something potentially rare should IMHO be ready to search far away.

 

 

It is not only kits that this applies to, I was watching an Ebay auction for a slim, maybe 10 pages, document on RAE engine research, the price was going through the roof so I cast the net and found it at a book seller for £5, the auction finished on nearly £40. I wore a broad grin all day long.

 

I agree with what you say about regional demand, I often look at a site in the USA that sells old kits, you probably know the one. What some kits go for there as opposed to here can sometimes be eyecatching, there are not many but if you look they are there. As the Yellow Pages advert used to say, "Let your fingers do the walking"

[Noel Smith]

Look and  ye shall find !

[Phantome]

I have not lived in the UK proper since 2022 but I did notice up to around the pandemic a modest but noticeable decline in the supply of 2nd hand kits and aftermarket parts on eBay, which correspondingly led to an increase in prices. IMHO it was most notable in decals. Late 2000s up to mid 2010s was a glory period of buying decals on eBay. Huge amount of variety, very good prices, I built up quite a stash during that time. Nowadays I look at the decal offerings and they're thoroughly uninteresting. I think part of the reason is that there were a number of great decal suppliers like Aeromaster or Repliscale that went bust and by the late 2010s 2nd hand supply had trickled to near nothing.

 

Also I think there's been a general disinterest from some of the large manufacturers like Revell and Italeri to rebox old kits and consequently, their 90s/2000s offerings are now quite rare - and thus expensive. The Asian manufacturers tend to rebox far more frequently so it's been less noticeable, and some like Tamiya and Trumpeter keep a large part of their catalogue always available.

 

Then, there's of course inflation. Even if you are aware of it, it still makes you "feel" that things have gone up when in reality they're probably similar priced in real terms than 10-20 years ago. And some companies have even managed to keep prices very competitive. I mean, an Xtradecal set on Hannants will go for 7.99 or 8.99... which was the same price I recall they sold for circa 2015. That's hugely cheaper now.

Edited June 4 by Phantome

[Paul J]

It was mentioned that if one waits for a manufacturer such as Revell, to re issue a discontinued kit it might be at a better price. But quite often  such re issues by  them will be a lot more than a 2nd hand. price.