spaddad Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 7/21/2018 at 3:33 PM, hendie said: sorry So you should be, get a grip man! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 This is awfully wonderful woodworkery, I almost feel like going and spend much money on chisels, drills and rare wood and starting my own build, however, I must resist and make do with watching this cracking build come together. We call the drill bit you used a 'flat' bit, never heard the term spade bit, you live and learn, I shall now go to work and confound everyone with my new found name for a flat bit. One of the pleasures of cutting wood is the range of mostly wonderful aromas given off, c'mon someone, design a App with smell-a-vision. Great work Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 such a lot of work for such a small part - you'd never catch me doing stuff like that! seriously though, very nice skills on show there and it's all the little stuff that counts towards a greater end 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Been away (again) and so am catching up (again). Your solution to the curves on the front of the fuselage is excellent - first class carvery there. I would be seriously proud to have pulled that one off. Keep this up as it is turning into a very interesting project. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Bloomin marvellous. The woodwork and the vacforming are wonderful. Really starting to look the part now Steve. All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Top Deck Many New Zealanders and Australians of a 'certain age' will look back with fondness on their 'overseas experiences' in the UK. Back in the day, a 'Top Deck' tour of Western Europe was about the best way to do... well all sorts of things really! The stories are legion! I however, travelled with the much more civilized 'Contiki Tour' crowd. I always secretly wanted to do a 'Top Deck' though - perhaps now is my chance... Before we do anything though we need to fill in that big hole right where the cockpit sits. Ironic that that we have to fill it in, given that ultimately that's all the cockpit is - a big hole in the fuselage! But stick with me folks. For now that hole needs to be filled!. Lets grab an offcut of NZ white pine and have a go. Mark up the correct length and the right shape on one end so that it will sit flush with the 'angley' bit on the end of the 'sheet metally' bit behind the 'cowlingish' part. Sand it to the correct shape. Ah - a nice fit! A blurry photo - but a nice fit. I seem to be having some issues with this little camera lately so please forgive any shots that aren't quite pin sharp. I noted that the rear of the new block was not flush with the top of the main fuselage structure. It needs to be, so mark up what needs to be removed and... chisel away the surplus. Leaving this. Please ignore the little blob of blue tack holding the nacelle in place. Now I had another one of those re-thinks that are starting to characterise this build. The overhanging extension bit on the 'turtle deck' on the rear of the fuselage got cut off and chucked in the bin. A shame really because I was quite fond of that bit of work. Still, I've got a different - hopefully better - plan now. A plan that looks like this... and this... and this... and so forth. What a writer I am! Use the vac-formed cowling to mark the correct camber on the piece so that the mark-up looks like... this. Then carefully carve into that poor bit of basswood with some freshly sharpened chisels. Flip the scoop chisel upside down and round off the top of the cockpit decking. Note how the top of the decking still does not quite match the curvature of the cowling. Just hit the job with some sandpaper. Now it matches! Now use the carved shape as a buck for vac-forming that top deck section above the cockpit. Use the chain-drilled holes as a guide as to where to cut out the cockpit openings. And 'voila' - one top deck! Note by that this stage I had also sanded off all of that mysterious granular surface texture that was left on the cowling by the vac-forming process. The vac formed sheet plastic still needs some internal bracing to make it strong enough and to force it to exactly the correct cross-section but this is close enough for my purposes. And so the top deck is now under control. Not quite as much fun as a Contiki tour of Western Europe but a lot cheaper! 😉 Best Regards, Steve 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Coming along nicely Steve, making good progress using skills beyond my hands. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 mmmmmnnnn, I do like a multimedia build. 8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: Now I had another one of those re-thinks that are starting to characterise this build. They're always the best rethinks methinks. Sometimes you have to try it one way just to get the creative juices flowing - once the preliminary modeling is achieved then the aha moments start to surface (though the aha's in my case are usually doh's! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Nice work Steve, I am always loath to throw good work to one side but I can see why you did it, the vac-form cockpit section is a superb idea...that penny must have made a loud noise when it dropped into place😤 Jumping ahead a little, is there any fuselage framework visible inside the cockpit and if so is it wood or tubular, I am looking forward to see how you tackle it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 That was definitely a very bright light going on, when you decided to vac form the upper decking. Beautifully done, too! I knew many Aussies and Kiwis back in the 80's who were working their way around Europe, or even all the way round the world in some cases. Funnily enough, most of them worked in bars....strange that! One particular guy who became a good friend was an Aussie, also called Steve, who hailed from Flowerpot, Tasmania. You can't forget a place name like that! Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Head in the clouds. said: Jumping ahead a little, is there any fuselage framework visible inside the cockpit and if so is it wood or tubular, I am looking forward to see how you tackle it. Yes there is framework visible in the cockpit and it is wooden not metallic tubing. I am going to have a crack at representing it and have a rough plan in mind. Lets see what happens! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Really enjoying following along. Can’t help but wonder how one of the Schneider Cup racers would look in polished wood. No metal or plastic, just wood. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) Harumph! Far too much plastic for a wooden build! 😜 Seriously: impressive skills on show. Are you going to replicate stretched fabric over the wing ribs? That'll be a challenge. Edited August 4, 2018 by Redshift The goblins made me do it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Nice work Steve and I'm sure I'll like it even more when I get my frazzled brain cell around where you are going with the block of pine filling the cockpit interior. Confused of Mars 👾 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Just caught up with the build and this is seriously impressive Modelling (capitalising here because this is the definitive article!). Out of curiosity, how much does it weigh? Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Hello, Just a brief note to everyone to thank you for your interest and support and to let you know that this thread might go a bit quiet for a while as I am doing a fair bit of work-related travel over the next three weeks. Will get get back to each of the individual queries raised (weight, ribbing and so-forth) once I have the time to answer properly. The other news is that I bought a small wood-working lathe yesterday! So that opens the door to all kinds of weird misadventure! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Weird misadventure? On Britmodeller? Surely not! Shocked of Mars 👾 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: that opens the door to all kinds of weird misadventure! Normal day at the office then....look forward to your return with new toy set up and ready to impress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Head in the clouds. said: new toy set up and ready to impress. No, unlikely to impress! To my recollection I have never used a lathe in my life. I think I might have used one briefly in high school metalwork? It might be fun to watch me ‘learn’ though (assuming I do manage to learn and don’t just grind all my fingers off!) Still, that might be fun to watch too. 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Very impressed indeed with this multi-media model. Watching you grind your fingers on the lathe should be instructive too. On 8/3/2018 at 10:51 PM, hendie said: mmmmmnnnn, I do like a multimedia build. They're always the best rethinks methinks. Sometimes you have to try it one way just to get the creative juices flowing - once the preliminary modeling is achieved then the aha moments start to surface (though the aha's in my case are usually doh's! My ah's are also very frequently doh's too. Funny how no matter how many plans we think of, we nearly always have to use another one in the end! Looking forward to your return from your travels and more updates. P 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: ... The other news is that I bought a small wood-working lathe yesterday! So that opens the door to all kinds of weird misadventure! You're going to have to buy a bigger broom & dust pan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 'Scale Weight' On 05/08/2018 at 01:58, Max Headroom said: Out of curiosity, how much does it weigh? Trevor Well Max Headroom, Great question! Let's find out, using some kitchen scales. First stick an empty container on the scales and zero them out. Now whack all of the components of the model into the weighing bin. And the answer is 122 grams (that's 4.303 Ounces in the old money). But, in my view this is only the beginning of the exercise. From here we can look at a subject I find quite interesting; that of 'scale weight'. If the subject of a model was simply 'hit with a shrink ray' and all of the correct composition of all of the components were maintained, what would the weight of the resulting model be? In other words what would the model weigh if the average bulk density of the subject was maintained during the scaling process? Let's try to work out the 'correct' scale weight of a 1/32 Avro 504. Sorry folks - we are going to have to do some maths... 😢 First a little bit of theory... When scaling a linear measurement from 'full size' to 1/32 scale you simply divide the original linear measurement by 32. So the Avro's wingspan is converted from 10.97m to 10.97 / 32 = 0.342m (or 342mm if you prefer). When scaling an area measurement from 'full size' you must divide by '32 squared' - the 32 has to be squared because both the length and the width are shrinking by a factor of 32. 32 2 = 1024. The Avro 504 had a wing area of 30.7m2. So, our model's wing area should be 30.7 / 1024 = 0.0299m2. That's 299 square cm - seems about right. Now the thing with scale weight is that it must drop in proportion to the reduction of volume - which is proportional to the shrinkage of all three axes; Length, Width and Height. Hence you must divide the original weight by the cube of the scale. in the case of 1/32 scale you must divide the original weight by 323 323 = 32768. According to Wikipedia (who have cited "The Encyclopedia of World Aircraft") an empty Avro 504K weighs 558kg. So the 'scale weight' of an empty Avro 504 is... 558kg / 32768 = 0.01702 kg which is a mere 17grams! 😨 The maximum take off weight is reportedly 830kg. Therefore maximum weight of a 1/32 scale Avro 504 should be 830 / 32768 = 25 grams. So my Avro is way heavier than it 'should' be. In fact it's 122 / 17 = 7.17 times 'denser' than the empty original. (By the way please let me know if you see any flaws in this work as I have no claim to any particular aptitude at maths!) So what's the point of all of this? Well it has made me come to realise just how lightly built the original aircraft were and just how stringent the limitations on weight must have been in these early aircraft. All of this is another reason to admire the skill of the designers, builders and maintenance teams and the courage of those who flew them. Best Regards, Steve 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said: So my Avro is way heavier than it 'should' be. That's a shame Steve, she'll never fly now....!! Really interesting post though, I wonder how many actual 'flyable' models come in on or under the weight of a real one? Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: ... Therefore maximum weight of a 1/32 scale Avro 504 should be 830 / 32768 = 25 grams. So my Avro is way heavier than it 'should' be. ... You should've used balsa wood. lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Yeah I know ‘and make the fuselage hollow’ blah blah! 🙄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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