Avro 504K, 1/32, Scratchbuild

[Bandsaw Steve]

6 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Did you cut the wing into three completely separate parts? If you did the wood should not be able to spring back again. I have used this method before and not had a problem. I was using lime wood but it shouldn't make any difference.

 

Mystified of Mars 

All will become clear in Plan C oh great interplanetary overlord.

[Bandsaw Steve]

8 hours ago, Matt_ said:

Sad to see you seem to be having trouble keeping it stiff enough. Nightmare.

 

Don't worry, I'm still running from the last time.  

 

In all seriousness though. I'm loving this build.

Any more comments like that young man and it won’t be your fingers going through the bandsaw!

[Courageous]

8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

All will become clear in Plan C oh great interplanetary overlord.

When you mention plan D, I think you're 'winging it' and don't have a clue what you're doing. 

 

Stuart

[Bandsaw Steve]

At last - the penny has finally dropped for someone!  

 

There’s a lot of make it up as I go along in this project. 

 

Don’t tell anyone!

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Steve 

I think it was mentioned before, but if you cut the filler out of the slots you could shim them with  plasticard. You can add a length then pack it out with another length next to it and so on. The wings will keep their  dihedral then I'm sure. 

All the best 

Keeping my fingers crossed 

Chris 

[general melchett]

My dear Very Fine Fret-Saw Steve,

Quote

Don’t tell anyone! 

 

 

Your secret is quite safe here....in fact only myself and the rest of the English speaking world is to know. 

 

When you talk of plan A through D (or possibly Z) do you refer to components of the 'Grand Plan' or is this something entirely different?

 

Good Lord man, stop faffing about, just cut the thing into three, bung it together and let the devil take the hindmost.....talk about mountains out of possum hills!

[Bandsaw Steve]

Flash Message - Urgent Delivery-Stop.

 

Ex  Steve - Bandsaw Stop

 

Deliver Melchett - General - Stop

 

Regret Grand Plan Delayed Stop

Invitation Quiz Night Tonight Stop

Regret No further Comms Re Avro possible this day due time constraint Stop

 

Update reschedule ETA 02:00 Zulu Stop

 

God Save the King Stop

[general melchett]

Message received and totally misunderstood, some mumbo-jumbo about 'regret grand piano display having a quizzical regret this Arvo due to daytime complaint'...stop  

 

Oh and re the quiz night...I'll be there, informal but smart dress code to be observed, (jewelled battleshorts and regimental mankini (in battalion colours) optional for officers but only if worn with field boots and pith helmets, naturally)....moustache hammocks to be fitted if required. 

Quote

Update reschedule ETA 02:00 Zulu Stop

I don't care what time the blasted Zulus get up...get those wings sorted.......and don't ever........stop.

 

Melchett   (35 miles behind the times)

[Bandsaw Steve]

Dihedral Debacle Part 3 - Victory at C

 

This is Plan C - and it seems to have worked. I don't believe that it's exactly what our Martian friend was suggesting - but it’s close. Just remember, the powers and technology he has at his disposal are far beyond that which this mere Earthling can muster, so it’s unlikely I’ll ever be able to follow his methods exactly.

 

First - very carefully mark up two parallel slots. Each slot must run across the wing's centre and out to a point about half of the length of each wing. Make each slot exactly the correct width to accept a 'biscuit'.

 

Cut each wing off using the finest, narrowest saw  in your arsenal.  

Sawing wings off like this gives me the 'hee-bee-jeebies' - damned unnatural if you ask me. This is why I tried plan A and plan B first. My thought was that if I could keep the wing intact It would leave the wing stronger and in it's correct plan view shape regardless of what happened with the dihedral.  Unfortunately 'A' and 'B' were not huge successes - so now this...

I was a bit nervous - a bit shivery - hence the pictures all fuzzy.

 

Now with the dreadful deed done I just touched the cut surface with the disc sander to make sure that it was clean and perfectly square.

 

And now I needed to cut the slot without wavering too far. In this case I whacked one Postit note on either edge of the marked slot. As long as I wasn't cutting anything that was bright pink I was in the slot!

 

Slot number one - cut. This is ok.  The cut's a bit ragged but at least the cuts are 100% within the designed slot and hasn't wavered outside. 

 

Now I can thread the sanding belt into the slot and switch the machine on.  This cleaned the slot out in just a few seconds.

 

And a biscuit can slide into the slot as shown.  There will be two biscuits and when the job's done, each will form a spar.

 

After carefully marking the dihedral angle and the position of the bottom of the wing onto the biscuit we can add glue and slot the wing into its marked position.

 

Here's a shot taken a bit later.  The second slot has been cut and the glue from the first one is still drying.

 

A bit later we have this.

 

Which isn't looking too bad. Might have overcooked it a touch - the dihedral looks a bit too severe but not too bad. I'm happy with this.

 

Now we have to remove the surplus wood from the biscuit. I reckon the best tool for this is a scoop chisel. Interestingly I find myself using scoop chisels much more than flat ones these days.  Well - maybe it's not that interesting to anyone else, but I think it's interesting....

 

At this point I've decided to leave a thicker length of wood between the two wings so I'm using that lovely little fret saw to cut out the shape that I want to preserve. I'm leaving this bit of wood intact as I'm still not completely sure how to attach the wings to the fuselage and depending on how I decide to do that I think that a bit of surplus biscuit left in the centre might prove useful. We shall see. 

 

Shaving in closer now. Getting close to both the top of the wing and the central biscuity bit. 

 

And after a bit more shaving with the chisel and a fair bit of careful sanding we have this...

 

and this...

 

which I think constitutes success. 

 

The dihedral is now at the correct angle (or at least within my fairly lax tolerances). The wing is not sagging, The wing is reasonably rigid and isn't warping too much. The plan view has been preserved and there's a bit of surplus left at the wing root that might help me attach it to the fuselage.  More importantly, I think I now have a 'go to method' for dihedral. I think that this a method I will keep in my pocket and potentially use over and over again. Not bad considering it involves joinery..

 

Victory at (plan) C!

 

I have to now repeat the whole damned process with the top wing, I think plan B basically ruined the top wing so I think I have to start again with that one - from scratch...  Geddit - 'from scratch'... it's a 'scratchbuild'...Geddit!?!

 

Sorry about that,

The rush of success has dulled my judgement,

Bandsaw - Bandsaw Steve...

[Azgaron]

Good job! Nice that plan C turned out so well!

 

Håkan

 

[JohnWS]

Glad Plan 'C' worked Steve.  Looks good!  

 

You have a lot more patience ... & tools ... than I.   It would still be interesting see how the Jarrah would react soaked in a bucket of warm water & then bent to suit.

 

Good luck with the top wing.

 

John

[hendie]

congratulations Steve.  Nice biscuits.

 

Now though.... Errmmnnnnn......

 

3 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

 

I have to now repeat the whole damned process with the top wing, I think plan B basically ruined the top wing so I think I have to start again with that one - from scratch...  Geddit - 'from scratch'... it's a 'scratchbuild'...Geddit!?!

 

I seem to remember somewhere, not so long ago, in a thread not very far from here....

 

On 4/16/2018 at 1:05 PM, Bandsaw Steve said:

Hendie,

 

I’ve had an idea.  How about each time you think of a ‘joke’ you PM it to me. I’ll read it and let you know what I think, and perhaps provide feedback on how it can be improved. Then, once we have sorted out the best material and polished it up a bit you can post it, with confidence, for viewing by the greater Britmodeller public.

 

I think this might be the best way forward in your case.

 

Always here to help mate!

 

Bandsaw Steve

 

 

 

You might want to think of this as a reciprocal arrangement

 

 

 

[Martian]

That's pretty much what I was getting at. Mmmm, biscuits! 

 

Martian 

[Head in the clouds.]

I do like a magic show, from disaster to success in the flick of a curtain chisel. Great work Steve, I love it when A,B,C...oh I don't know which plan we are on, come s together.

 

Fine work.

[AdrianMF]

Good work on the revised plan. Can you not cut a slightly wider slot into the wings from "Plan A/B"? You could take out all the glued part and it would save you having to make a new pair.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Bandsaw Steve]

3 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Good work on the revised plan. Can you not cut a slightly wider slot into the wings from "Plan A/B"? You could take out all the glued part and it would save you having to make a new pair.

 

Regards,

Adrian

Yep - maybe. I’m going to start by trying that but doubt that It’ll leave tight enough slots. There’s a bit of ‘hard-to-fix’ damage on the trailing edge as well.

[Courageous]

I'm glad you got the upper-hand with that wing...good show.

[Bandsaw Steve]

Modelling in Mime.

 

The last month has been very busy in the Bandsaw household so not as much as I would hope has been done on this project.  I'm about to catch a taxi to go to the airport and will be away from the workbench for more than a week. So am rushed to get this post completed. Hence - to speed up the process of preparing the post - it's going to be pictures only. No commentary. It'll be just like one of those weird mime shows. See if you can work out what's going on...and which rock group was I was playing on my little portable DVD player.  I'll give you a clue, it's not David Bowie - who was trained as a mime artist - but it's one of his contemporaries and this band apparently used to play in a support role to Bowie on the odd occasion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might be a while before I get to post again.  Sorry about that.

 

Regards,

Bandsaw!

 

[Azgaron]

Nice work! Looks right!

 

Håkan

 

[Courageous]

And the cunning plan comes together.

 

Stuart

[malpaso]

Ye bifquite is one of ye ftandarde methodef of achieving ye angle of ye dihehedral in ye olde solide modellinge bookf.

 

Regardf

Guilliaume de Wodestocke

[Bandsaw Steve]

Indeed.

 

In addition we have this dialogue (rarely performed) from Shakespeare’s ‘Julius Ceasar’

 

Soldier:

Alac our mighty nation bleeds it’s sorrow

Great Caesar slain and all hope laid asunder!

 

Workman / Miniaturist:

I loved Ceasar as true as any Roman 

But verily now I cannot mourn him

Not till Sapelli to Avro’s wings be shaped

In times of woe I know none but this troth

When tru’st dihedral must be set

Make biscuit firm, and trim’t to a spar!

 

[Matt_]

Or as the famous Monty of the Pythons once said:

 

 

p.s Nice dihedral, Sir.

[bigbadbadge]

Great work. Looks good Have a good time away. 

All the best 

Chris 

[Bandsaw Steve]

Getting on with it!

 

Hmmmm…. The last substantive post had no commentary at all. That was the 'Modelling in Mime' post. That post scored 11 'likes'

 

My next post after that was in my very best mock Shakespeare - it was in iambic pentameter and everything. Not that I think anyone noticed.  In fact that post has got zero 'likes' so far... … zero... and a call to 'get on with it'...

 

Oh well... genius's are rarely appreciated in their own lifetime...

 

Seems I'd better just 'get on with it'...

 

'And trim't to a spar' said Mr Mock Shakespeare so those biscuits have to go folks.

 

Leaving two sets of wings as shown.

 

Lot's of holes and gaps and dents and things to clean up with some car body filler.

 

And all of this scrap - kinda cool really. Looks like my hair in the morning!

 

Use lots of filler - it's good stuff. Smells bad though.

 

Sand, sand, sand.  Start with the coarse paper and move to the smooth. You know the drill.

 

I found that that jig that I made for plan 'B' worked really well as a support for the wings while sanding them as it's specifically made to hold them at exactly the correct dihedral.

 

And after a good dose of sanding I've got something like this. Note the bit of damage on the trailing edge - still to work out exactly how I'm going to fix that.

 

I decided to get rid of the 'sticky-outy' bits on the top of the lower wing. I don't think I'll use them to attach the wing to the fuselage and they were getting in the way of the sanding.

 

All gone...

 

Now we can see that the dihedral in both wings is almost exactly equal - that's a good result.

 

Following my recent success using white spirts to clean up  paper templates that I had stuck to the wood I used it again to clean up the sanding dust and other residue and give the wood this 'faux' polish. It's only shiny here because it's still wet.

 

And here's where we are up to now.

 

Not looking too bad.

Not sure what I'll do next.  There's plenty more to do on the wings but from here I'm confident they won't be show-stoppers for the rest of the project. I now think that the wings are under control. From here I could move onto the cockpit or the fuselage or the tailplanes or the engine cowling.

Plenty of options now.

 

Bardsaw Steve