Matt_ Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 It's the wings, for sure. Fairly certain I mentioned that you should've made the wings from spars and ribs earlier in the thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 he wouldn't have had that problem if he'd built the thing from plastic like the rest of us 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Full Refund The cockpit / fuselage sidewalls of an Avro 504K toward the front of the cockpit are nowhere near the flat upright slabs that a lazy modeller like myself would like to see. Section 'B' (below) shows the issue, with the heavy red lines indicating the shape I'm discussing. At the rear of the cockpit (section 'C' below), the shape has morphed smoothly into a simpler more upright shape (also shown by red lines). This changing camber running along the length of the fuselage must be modelled as it makes for an important visual characteristic of the airframe. It's all part of the issue of translating the circular engine cowling into a square cross-section fuselage. So now I have to model the damned thing. Get that block of NZ white pine where the cockpit must go and stick two lengths of appropriate width basswood onto its sides. Leaving this effect. Now this is an unusual sight - me using a wood plane! I never was any good with these things and generally try to avoid them but on this occasion I managed to just slightly thin down both strips of wood on either side of the cockpit. Leaving this, onto which I have drawn the sloping camber that I need to start building cross-section 'B' as shown above. Phew - back to a chisel. Much easier to control. Cross-section 'B'... Cross-Section 'C'... and an overview. Note how I have managed to get the upright surface on the new block of wood to gradually 'roll' into an upright position toward the rear of the fuselage. I've also managed to get it to thin out quite nicely too. I'm pretty happy with that. Now here's a small detail that might cause some controversy because I've based it on photos not on the 'official' sections shown above. On numerous photos of Avro 504K's there appears to be a very subtle ridge running along the fuselage wall above and parallel to the main panel that I have just been modelling. This little ridge seems to fade away by the time it gets to the rear cockpit. On the diagram below I have interpreted this ridge to be represented by the fine horizontal line that I have highlighted in hazy red - the one that's at the end of the red arrow. I have done this despite some misgivings, as the little red line could also be interpreted as a throttle linkage within the cockpit. In any case, I think that there needs to be a small ridge modelled here as it is quite clearly visible in several photos. So here it is. A small ridge in the making. And now we mix up some automotive filler. If you have not got any of this get some, it's fantastic stuff! Gloop it onto the structure. Yep - gloop it on - that's right. Smooth it out with popsicle sticks and fingers. Let it dry and sand it down. If it's not quite smooth enough or shaped right or whatever just scour it with a scalpel blade... and smear some PPP all over it. Just like this. After a bit of smoothing and sanding an so-forth we have this... Which is nothing more than a buck for yet more vac-forming! Yes - vac-forming! After all of that this whole assembly is nothing more than a block against which some plastic is going to be molded. Now I know, I know... At the start of this thread I said that this was going was going to be a wooden model - and I note that Redshift is already taking me to task over my lack of 'purity' in this regard (have a look at his recently completed spitfire and you'll see why he sees me as a sell-out). But I never said it would be 100% wood and about half way through my Mig15 build I did say I was going to be more experimental with methods and materials in future. So yes this one's becoming more and more a 'multi-media' project. If you want you can go to the front counter and ask for a full refund. Our staff will gladly refund you the full price of admission to this thread. 😝😛 Bandsaw Steve, Multimedia Modeller 13 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Thats ok steve, I'm impressed by your all round skills in any medium. Keep up the good work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Yeah - I see you’re backing off now that I’ve called you out Redshift! No one messes wid da BANDSAW! 😡😱😤🤪🤪🤪🤪 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Well actually @Matt messes with me quite frequently. 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 And @hendie too come to think of it. 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 this is more like it... modeling with whatever comes to hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Very interesting ideas coming out of this one. All the vacforming should give a very realistic cockpit area with plenty of internal space for full detailing. I'm looking forward to it! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, hendie said: this is more like it... modeling with whatever comes to hand. What he said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 If you vacform it all Steve, it'll be light enough to fly....!! Cracking work again, whatever you use! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Very impressive improvisation. The idea of vacuforming is an excellent one and the finished product should be very goof too. Have you allowed for the thickness of the plastic in the dimensions of the wood moulds? P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 hours ago, pheonix said: Have you allowed for the thickness of the plastic in the dimensions of the wood moulds? Hi Phoenix, Yes, I think so. But exactly what thickness will be present in the vac-form remains to be seen. This is still a bit experimental for me so there’s an element of ‘suck and see’. Vac-forming being the ‘suck’. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 A Modelling Holiday... (with Qantas...) On the 4th of August I posted that this thread might go quiet for a bit as I was going to have to do some travel for work. I was thinking of this as a modelling holiday - a break away from the project so that I could come back fresh. Instead it turned into a sort of 'Modelling Holiday' (with capital letters) as you will see below. But before I start into this thrilling yarn, I feel I simply must share this map from Qantas's own in-flight magazine... According to the 'Rainman' Qantas has never lost a passenger. Which is impressive considering they seem to have misplaced London and every other major city in both the UK and Western Europe. Still - they know where Sydney airport terminal 3 is and to my absolute amazement and delight this was the sight that greeted me the moment I stepped out of the arrivals area. This is a full size replica, built from original construction plans, of Qantas's first ever aircraft, an Avro 504K retro-fitted with a Sunbeam Dyak 100hp inline engine. My jaw dropped to the floor - I had no idea this was in Sydney. I knew that there was a replica of it in Queensland but this was a complete surprise and, of course, a great chance to get a large number of reference photos. A few of which I've included below. I'm thinking I'm going to bundle these shots up and send them to Britmodeller for the walk-around section. Of course after this find my day could get no better, but then... to my delight, in the departure area I found this. This is a 1/32 scale model of the very same aircraft that I had just been viewing a replica of...Hmmm... that's pretty inspiring to see. I hope my Arvo comes out half as good as this one. Just to be absolutely clear, nothing on this particular post - including this model, is my work. Speaking of inspiration how about this beauty! I once met a gypsy fortune teller who said there was a V-jet 707 scratch-build in my future... Hmmmm…. Nice! And now I have lathe to make a nice circular cross-section fuselage and engine nacelles... Just to ensure that correct acknowledgement is given this is the company that made both of the models shown above. Later on in the trip I had some free time in Newcastle (New South Wales) and went to the excellent 'Fighterworld' museum just beside RAAF Williamtown. What should I find but this - a 172 scratchbuilt Avro 504 among a beautiful and very extensive collection of completely scratchbuilt model aircraft. Again not my work. And here are some more of these gems. There's a lot of excitement on Britmodeller about Schneider trophy racers, so I think I'll post these photos and throw some more fuel on that particular fire. Beautiful aren't they! And here is the acknowledgement in the museum to Mr Norman Forrester who built the collection. Congratulations Norman a fantastic body of work indeed and truly inspirational. I note that I shall have to work much faster to match your output. Well - it wasn't really a holiday. It actually was a working trip, but I could not have had better luck with the things I got to see along the way and I'm all refreshed and raring to go on the Avro 504. I will be back to posting regularly again very soon. Now the only problem is that I have so many close-up reference shots and so much previous excellent work to live up to that there can be no more excuses for a shoddy product. Best Regards, Steve 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said: Now the only problem is that I have so many close-up reference shots and so much previous excellent work to live up to that there can be no more excuses for a shoddy product. Why not? I've been getting away with it for decades! The map is unbelievable, it makes one wonder if Qantas would be able to find Australia on the return flight! Martian 👽 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggsy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said: And now I have lathe to make a nice circular cross-section fuselage and engine nacelles... Careful! Boeing's first cylindrical fuselage airliner was the 777. Everything else before that was a very slight double lobe. In fact, the 707, 727, 737 and 757 all share the same cross-section! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 23 hours ago, Beggsy said: Careful! Boeing's first cylindrical fuselage airliner was the 777. Hmmmm good point. I did say ‘circular cross-section’ but having looked at some references I see that that’s clearly wrong. Still, I think the lathe might still be useful in creating the double-lobe. I’m thinking I’d do something like shaping two cylinders of the correct respective diameters and then trimming and merging the two together. In any case it Might never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: ... there can be no more excuses for a shoddy product. ... 'bout time! You really lucked out on finding the 504K's for reference. Love the map. At least it won't take us as long to travel to the major cities in the UK & Europe, from Canada. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: In any case it Might never happen. If it does, will it be in 1/32nd....?! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Welcome back Steve. Now, back to the Avro 7 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said: And here are some more of these gems. There's a lot of excitement on Britmodeller about Schneider trophy racers, so I think I'll post these photos and throw some more fuel on that particular fire. Beautiful aren't they! Definitely fuel on the fire, beautiful ...anymore fuel Steve? Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 hours ago, keefr22 said: If it does, will it be in 1/32nd....?! Keith At 1/32 scale a 707 would be 138cm long - I haven’t calculated how much it would weigh. 🤔 Hmmmm... currently happily married- I think that rules out 1/32. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Long, quiet modelling day yesterday so just catching up. Nice batch of photos and what a serendipitous treat for you seeing that 504. Thanks for posting. Cheers Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar side Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 21 hours ago, Beggsy said: Careful! Boeing's first cylindrical fuselage airliner was the 777. Everything else before that was a very slight double lobe. In fact, the 707, 727, 737 and 757 all share the same cross-section! Just wondering if a VC-10 was a circular cross section? 1/48 would be big, 1/32 is taking it to far for the average builders desk / marriage. Nice find at terminal 3 Steve - been through there a couple of times & never found them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Simply love the map (I am a retired Geography teacher), - looks as tough someone does not know how to superimpose using a computer: just the kind of result that I would produce using that method! Lovely pictures of the 504 replica - what a find! Thanks for posting. Having seen the model photos I think that perhaps I will quietly crawl into a dark corner and take up origami...... P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Hi Steve. Great map. Wow finding the replica and the lovely models was a real bonus. Great work on your model too by the way. Keep up the good work. All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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