FM 1/48 Hampden - Duel Build with the General!

[general melchett]

Good to see you've cracked on with this one Neil, might give me the 'kick up the Khyber' I need to get mine restarted, (if I can drag the big resin delta shaped lump off the bench, that is)... Fortuitously I  recently bought some new riveting tools....methinks I'm going to need them. Also found a riveting diagram in the archives and luckily, it looks quite doable. The fact that FM got the panel lines wrong doesn't exactly help matters though.

 

Quote

In the process of rescribing and riveting I snapped both tails off, so they'll stay off for now.

 

Exactly why mine's still in pieces, ha. I'll dig it out and see where we are, can't let you finish the race on yer lonesome....

[davidl]

You wrote

 

" Hi David,

 

Andy's interior is far better than mine, I've just gone for an approximate look and will put greater focus on the exterior finish. I must of forgotten the steps even though I remember it being my intention to fit some! I've just had a look inside and realised it's just a ramp! Doh! Steps or no steps, I don't suppose it was much fun trying to pass under the pilot in flight in full flying gear. "

 

I'd love to see Andy's interior !!! are you or the General willing to post a couple of glamour shots ?? My search of Andy's posts on this site did not turn up a WIP for his Hampden ... However it did turn up several other great Bomber Command (and other) builds by him

 

You have rather spoiled my day advising the Sanger kit is a possible origin of all the errors in the FM kit you have so painstakingly rectified.

 

Yes , I agree and had exactly the same thought ... moving past the pilot in a Hampden in full flying kit must have been a real struggle especially for a broad shouldered lad - I have my Dad's flying boots and jacket and they are both pretty heavy just by themselves - the boots weigh a ton !

 

Regards

David

Edited September 9, 2023 by davidl

[woody37]

On 9/7/2023 at 6:21 PM, general melchett said:

Good to see you've cracked on with this one Neil, might give me the 'kick up the Khyber' I need to get mine restarted, (if I can drag the big resin delta shaped lump off the bench, that is)... Fortuitously I  recently bought some new riveting tools....methinks I'm going to need them. Also found a riveting diagram in the archives and luckily, it looks quite doable. The fact that FM got the panel lines wrong doesn't exactly help matters though.

 

 

Exactly why mine's still in pieces, ha. I'll dig it out and see where we are, can't let you finish the race on yer lonesome....

 

I'd love to see more progress pics of the big V mate, from what you sent me, it's looking going to be something special. 

 

21 hours ago, davidl said:

You wrote

 

" Hi David,

 

Andy's interior is far better than mine, I've just gone for an approximate look and will put greater focus on the exterior finish. I must of forgotten the steps even though I remember it being my intention to fit some! I've just had a look inside and realised it's just a ramp! Doh! Steps or no steps, I don't suppose it was much fun trying to pass under the pilot in flight in full flying gear. "

 

I'd love to see Andy's interior !!! are you or the General willing to post a couple of glamour shots ?? My search of Andy's posts on this site did not turn up a WIP for his Hampden ... However it did turn up several other great Bomber Command (and other) builds by him

 

You have rather spoiled my day advising the Sanger kit is a possible origin of all the errors in the FM kit you have so painstakingly rectified.

 

Yes , I agree and had exactly the same thought ... moving past the pilot in a Hampden in full flying kit must have been a real struggle especially for a broad shouldered lad - I have my Dad's flying boots and jacket and they are both pretty heavy just by themselves - the boots weigh a ton !

 

Regards

David

Hi David, 

 

The WIP of Andy's build is in this thread with great pics of his interior. I really don't know much about the Sanger kit other than that it is no doubt as (if not more) labour intensive as the FM kit going off the Stirling I built a few years back. Wow, you must be proud to have your dads flying gear, I certainly would be. So much history in them.

 

The build had been steps forwards and steps backwards so far. Firstly the steps backwards:

• I broke the tailplane off after breaking both fins off! 
• The 0.5mm PETG sheets arrived but are too thin for what I need so now ordered some 0.75mm. The 0.5mm behaved OK, just too think to handle due to the stretch needed for thew profiles
• I realised (so far) that the kit is missing the main undercarriage drag struts, rear gear leg and intake scoops that sits above the nacelle so all will need to be scratch built. 

 

Now the steps forwards:

• Repaired the tail end
• Scratch built the intake scoops out of a solid square section of evergreen plastic (rather pleased with the result!)
• Detailed the bomb bay in a roundabouts way
• Added a step to replicate the two part bomb bay doors (much the same as the Halifax arrangement)
• Finished scribing and riveting

I'm determined to win 😂

Pics so far...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Neil, who is slightly balder than last week!

[europapete]

So, after you both put sooooo much effort and love into this project, right before the final little bits are done, is Airfix going to announce a 1/48 kit? The runes say maybe, and the Druid Council has been called. 

[woody37]

9 hours ago, europapete said:

So, after you both put sooooo much effort and love into this project, right before the final little bits are done, is Airfix going to announce a 1/48 kit? The runes say maybe, and the Druid Council has been called. 

I do hope so, I'm willing to take one for the team 😂

 

It sure is a gap to be filled.

[general melchett]

 

 

Quote

I'd love to see more progress pics of the big V mate, from what you sent me, it's looking going to be something special. 

 

 

Cheers, it's coming along nicely at the moment but I'm holding back on posting any progress on the forums as I need to know I'll be able to find time to finish it and it doesn't become another endless project (like the big Bucc, cough, cough). I've starting work on designing a 3D printed cockpit tub and once that's in and finished, I'll crack on with the rest... Just need to get yours underway now.

 

 

Lovely job on the kit Neil, way ahead of mine...still working out the best way to stick the two halves together without crushing all the detail work..oh well that's the life of a modeller suffering needless AMS.

 

 

Quote

It sure is a gap to be filled.

 

So true, along with a decent 48th Battle and Whitley...

 

[Terry1954]

A tad late to this party, but it does seem to be a long one. (says the man who thrives on my own builds that seem to go on for decades!)

 

Nice work on this canopies Neil. As Steve (aka Fritag) mentioned earlier, home made bucks and Pteg are very time consuming. I'm at that stage at the moment on my 7th 1/72 glider in a long sequence, and it's a right PITA!

 

Terry

[Cees Broere]

Looking good Neil.

And you have the windscreen radius correct, something that is missed on many models.

The canopy slides on top of the fuselage meaning the bottom part of the windscreen bows out.

Hope that makes sense.

Cheers

Cees

[woody37]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:58 PM, general melchett said:

 

 

Lovely job on the kit Neil, way ahead of mine...still working out the best way to stick the two halves together without crushing all the detail work..oh well that's the life of a modeller suffering needless AMS.

 

 

 

So true, along with a decent 48th Battle and Whitley...

 

 

Looking forwards to seeing your progress when you get round to it. That interior is excellent, perhaps you should do a cutaway model so we can still see it afterwards! My interior is much more basic given you can see sod all now!

23 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

A tad late to this party, but it does seem to be a long one. (says the man who thrives on my own builds that seem to go on for decades!)

 

Nice work on this canopies Neil. As Steve (aka Fritag) mentioned earlier, home made bucks and Pteg are very time consuming. I'm at that stage at the moment on my 7th 1/72 glider in a long sequence, and it's a right PITA!

 

Terry

 

I feel for you Terry, it really slows the build down, not to mention being expensive. I've just bought 10 sheets because of the scrappage rate I normally experience and it's cost me £43! I'm hoping to only need 3 formed clear parts and two of the formers are made for those. I'll make the nose blister section once the upper nose section has been fitted to make sure it all aligns as it's difficult to faff and sand clear parts due to flexing. 

 

59 minutes ago, Cees Broere said:

Looking good Neil.

And you have the windscreen radius correct, something that is missed on many models.

The canopy slides on top of the fuselage meaning the bottom part of the windscreen bows out.

Hope that makes sense.

Cheers

Cees

Cheers Cees. The canopy does bow out naturally on the kit, I'd rather have it open to see a bit of the interior too.

 

I've been working on the build awaiting the new sheets of PETG to arrive so I'll get some more pics up in the next day or so.

[general melchett]

Quote

My interior is much more basic given you can see sod all now!

 

My point about AMS exactly...maybe I should open it up but that'll lead to me wanting to doing more, like exposing an engine, bomb bay, wing spars etc...and that way madness lies. Please bear me in mind when you work your magic with the PETG...

 

I've acquired the excellent new ICM British bomb set for this which will save a bit of faffing about....the art of faff is alive and well here at Melchett Towers.

[woody37]

4 hours ago, general melchett said:

 

My point about AMS exactly...maybe I should open it up but that'll lead to me wanting to doing more, like exposing an engine, bomb bay, wing spars etc...and that way madness lies. Please bear me in mind when you work your magic with the PETG...

 

I've acquired the excellent new ICM British bomb set for this which will save a bit of faffing about....the art of faff is alive and well here at Melchett Towers.

I got the PETG delivered today mate and it's no good. It is turning white before getting anywhere near flexible to vac form so I've opened a return on Ebay. Not only that, the protective film is so thin, you can't get your nail under a corner to pull it off, it just rips, took me about 10 min to get the film off one piece! 

 

The 1mm thick stuff I have bubbles before getting to forming temp, the 0.5mm works great, but too thin and this is my second lot of 0.75mm that turns white, the swear box is getting a hammering today!

[AdrianMF]

12 minutes ago, woody37 said:

bubbles

I have the same problem with the thicker sheets, and tend to stay with thinner stuff (and random packaging) even if it does mean that the resulting canopies are pretty fragile.

 

I think it was Bill @perdu who said that the bubbles are due to absorbed moisture, and can be prevented by pre-warming the sheets for a while to drive out the moisture gently before getting to forming temperature.

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

PS nice build! Although whenever I see a Hampden get built, it makes me even gladder that I built the much-maligned Airfix one - a walk in the park by comparison, even though it does have a few issues.

[woody37]

1 minute ago, AdrianMF said:

I have the same problem with the thicker sheets, and tend to stay with thinner stuff (and random packaging) even if it does mean that the resulting canopies are pretty fragile.

 

I think it was Bill @perdu who said that the bubbles are due to absorbed moisture, and can be prevented by pre-warming the sheets for a while to drive out the moisture gently before getting to forming temperature.

Thanks Adrian, I will try that with the 1mm sheets. The 0.5mm was folding over on itself it was so thin. 0.75mm has worked in the past. If I can't sort that, it's back in the box for this little blighter.

[Caerbannog]

This thread is awsome! Not just because it makes a new tool Airfix kit so much more likely the more you progress 😉

So: Keep up the good work!

[mick b]

Great to see this one back on the bench Neil, I remember thinking two years ago that I need to get those AIM cowlings that Melchie highlighted and guess what… 😂

 

Mike

[woody37]

19 minutes ago, mick b said:

Great to see this one back on the bench Neil, I remember thinking two years ago that I need to get those AIM cowlings that Melchie highlighted and guess what… 😂

 

Mike

 

It might be coming back off the bench Mick!

 

I've had a couple of sheets of PETG in the oven to dry out, but just tried again without luck. I'm heating the sheets up over a toaster as I don't have a heat gun so whether that is causing any issues I don't know (used it successfully previously), but the plastic isn't getting hot enough to form before either bubbling or clouding so at the moment, I'm out of knowledge on how to move forwards.

1 hour ago, Caerbannog said:

This thread is awsome! Not just because it makes a new tool Airfix kit so much more likely the more you progress 😉

So: Keep up the good work!

We're on the same page, right now, this thing is very close to take off 🤣

[Fritag]

2 hours ago, woody37 said:

The 1mm thick stuff I have bubbles before getting to forming temp, the 0.5mm works great, but too thin and this is my second lot of 0.75mm that turns white, the swear box is getting a hammering today!

 

Don’t you just hate PETG?  I’ve a dental vac machine and thankfully haven’t needed to form anything larger than can be done with 0.5mm.  Even so I find that to avoid bubbles it’s best to start with the heating element off, and to gently heat the PETG as the element itself heats up, so the moulding is done before the element gets too cherry red.  Even then I don’t raise the cage to it’s highest extent - but keep it low and well away from the element.  I reckon PETG is just a prima donna…. 

[Terry1954]

If it's any help Neil, when I was thermoforming for the Grob Viking, I replicated canopy bucks so as to create as many canopies as I could in one go, in order to get some quality into the selection process. I got lucky as all five came out OK, BUT cutting just one clean and correct, needed all five!

 

 

 

I have to confess,  I invested in a Chinese supplied dental vac forming machine, which seemed extravagant at the time (I blame @Fritag and @Courageous) but it did pay off.

 

You may have alluded to this approach earlier in the build, which I may have missed.

 

HTH

 

Terry

 

 

[woody37]

37 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

Don’t you just hate PETG?  I’ve a dental vac machine and thankfully haven’t needed to form anything larger than can be done with 0.5mm.  Even so I find that to avoid bubbles it’s best to start with the heating element off, and to gently heat the PETG as the element itself heats up, so the moulding is done before the element gets too cherry red.  Even then I don’t raise the cage to it’s highest extent - but keep it low and well away from the element.  I reckon PETG is just a prima donna…. 

 

37 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

If it's any help Neil, when I was thermoforming for the Grob Viking, I replicated canopy bucks so as to create as many canopies as I could in one go, in order to get some quality into the selection process. I got lucky as all five came out OK, BUT cutting just one clean and correct, needed all five!

 

 

 

I have to confess,  I invested in a Chinese supplied dental vac forming machine, which seemed extravagant at the time (I blame @Fritag and @Courageous) but it did pay off.

 

You may have alluded to this approach earlier in the build, which I may have missed.

 

HTH

 

Terry

 

 

Thanks for the advice guys, I reckon the next step is to get hold of one of those vac machines, the home made forming device and toaster may be part of the problem (a workman needs to blame his tools)! The parts I'm forming aren't that big, smaller than the Halifax canopies I made a few years ago, but quite deep. It's turning out an expensive job this old Hampden, but don't want to throw the towel in yet, apart from the clear bits, I'm quite happy with how the rest of its coming along. Also, if I give in now, Airfix won't release the one they were secretly designing for the last 2 years as they are waiting for me to finish 🤪

[wellsprop]

Wow! 

[Terry1954]

8 minutes ago, woody37 said:

I reckon the next step is to get hold of one of those vac machines,

 

I would definitely recommend one if you are serious about vac forming canopies. Not the silver bullet, but VERY close!

 

 

 

Terry

[general melchett]

Sorry to hear this Neil, sounds like a decent dental vac machine as mentioned by Steve, et al, is the way to go. I know nuffin about vac forming, never tried it....3D printing and resin casting, yes but vac forming......Maybe have to have a look at it. High quality clear resin would be nice, in fact I'm off up to stay with Ali McLean in the 'whildes of Scortland' in a few weeks so while there, I'll have a word in his ear.

Meanwhile I managed to drag the Hampden box kicking and screaming out of it's hiding place and almost got it up onto the bench before a couple of shiny white V-Bombers that need finishing for SMW, got in the way. 

 

 

[LorenSharp]

15 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

 

I would definitely recommend one if you are serious about vac forming canopies. Not the silver bullet, but VERY close!

 

 

 

Terry

Those are good machines I have one and it hasn't failed me yet. Strong sturdy and industrial. If it has a draw back I wish it was MUCH larger. you know, plane size.

[woody37]

3 hours ago, general melchett said:

Sorry to hear this Neil, sounds like a decent dental vac machine as mentioned by Steve, et al, is the way to go. I know nuffin about vac forming, never tried it....3D printing and resin casting, yes but vac forming......Maybe have to have a look at it. High quality clear resin would be nice, in fact I'm off up to stay with Ali McLean in the 'whildes of Scortland' in a few weeks so while there, I'll have a word in his ear.

Meanwhile I managed to drag the Hampden box kicking and screaming out of it's hiding place and almost got it up onto the bench before a couple of shiny white V-Bombers that need finishing for SMW, got in the way. 

 

 

 

The problem with getting some parts made is they probably wouldn't fit the amended kit, but I'd be open to ideas. That said, I won't be making another one 🤣

 

18 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

 

I would definitely recommend one if you are serious about vac forming canopies. Not the silver bullet, but VERY close!

 

 

 

Terry

Thanks Terry, I've just ordered one, due here next Monday. How do you stop the forming shape from sinking into the ball bearings under the pressure of the plastic sheet? I'd welcome a lesson from you or Steve @Fritag on how you get the best results, I know Steve mentioned putting the plastic in before switching on the element.

 

Cheers

Neil

[LorenSharp]

The plastic sheet doesn't  sink that far into the metal balls(bearings) and they won't(shouldn't ) stick to the plastic. they're more for elevating the buck form higher than the suction plate. I don't use them, they make great vehicle nose weight. but when I do make a form I will either used a small piece of wood or resin block to raise off the platform. The hardest part is gauging when the plastic is ready to form. It doesn't take that long to soften,30-45sec. I look to when it's drooped about 7-8 mm it's ready. turn the vacuum on, turn off the heater, lower the plate and there you are. This might be of help: