Catching Pictures in the Air

[Terry1954]

That masking is a pre-planned masterpiece in its own right ............... my head hurts when I try and work it all out, but I think I can see how its all going to come together, when it all comes off so to speak!

 

Terry

[TheBaron]

On 8/12/2018 at 3:25 PM, perdu said:

learning...

...never stops.😊

On 8/12/2018 at 3:36 PM, limeypilot said:

That looks very tedious and time consuming

 

On 8/12/2018 at 4:24 PM, hendie said:

heh, it's only tedious for Herr Baron.   It's pretty exciting stuff at this end!

 

16 hours ago, giemme said:

Agreed!  

Ian, hendie, Giorgio: It appears that the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Tedium at last has a quorum!

I did start the day by spoling you with yet more tedium:

Masking the prop blades.

But then ruined your day by doing something exciting with silver paint...

5 hours ago, 71chally said:

That 119 is looking superb Tony, amazing amount of work evident, and indeed non evident now that it is one lump!

Hi James! Thanks for those kind words: I hope you're doing ok yourself?

1 hour ago, Terry1954 said:

That masking is a pre-planned masterpiece in its own right ............... my head hurts when I try and work it all out, but I think I can see how its all going to come together, when it all comes off so to speak!

You and me both Terry! 🤪

 

Here's the spinners fully masked now, including those 16 tiny masks you see above that go along the leading edges of each blade:

I took the precaution of pre-snapping the blade that I'd already glued-on once so that I didn't have to do it during painting...🤨

 

I'd given the aircraft a preliminary coat of White Aluminium before bed last night so that it had a good chance to cure overnight before further operations:

 On coming down this morning I was not happy with the slightly gritty appearance to the wing uppers on either side of the booms so I planed these back again with a razor blade and MM'ed them in preparation for a second go.

 

I've noticed on quite a few blogs and forum entries a tendency for Alclad  to induce a semi-paralysis in some modellers, in that everything has to go on in one rigid set of perfections of the kind you frequently see in modelling magazines.

I think this is one reason why it seems so intimidating to use for some people.  

This is quite unnecessarily.

I've learned over the course of today that within 10 minutes of application you can scrape at any offending regions and even paint splatters, after a quick rub with the finger, can be wet sanded away and paint reapplied almost immediately.

The stuff sprays so beautifully that any imperfections (in my case on the part of the operator) can be rapidly dealt with on the spot, rather than it being a monolithic process that the slightest flaw will ruin.

 

Oh, by the way. All that fancy underpainting with gloss and matt blacks and so forth. Waste of time in that it rapidly disappeared under the first coat. In the Doog's models video I posted a while back he got best results from using a Tamiya AS-12 base so having a metal base coat seems to be the key, but I couldn't get hold of any. Of well, there's a big silver B-17 in my future once the Anson's done so I'll make sure to lay some in for that.

 

Where were we? Right. Fiddling with the top works:

Here just blocking-out the regions I want there to be slight differences in: nothing mad (as you don't see these aircraft looking like demonstrators for every shade of Alclad) but just enough to try and introduce a lively response to light across the various surfaces. You can see above also that I whacked some steel down around the nose to see what that might bring to the party.

If you sense I was having fun playing with this stuff.

Yes!!

In the shot below I've also just finished darkening the belly all the way along with steel, hence the masking tape:

Note to self: remember to continue that line along the underside of the BT.

Is that Peppa Pig's face in the nose?

This was about the third pass around the aircraft, this time having switched from White Aluminium to the darker standard Aluminium:

I don't know how obvious the variations are as it's really only when you turn the aircraft that you can really see how the light changes across the varying surfaces. I was leaving about 45-60 mins between each coat in order to make sure things had dried out sufficiently on this rather humid day.

Nearly finished along the roof:

From behind against the light you get a bit of a better sense of the change in surfaces:

Oops! Nearly forgot to paint the BT!

And this lot:

In fact I completely forgot about these guys until the last minute:

Right.

Here she sits tonight in  lustrous argent.

I'm not going to touch for now for a couple of days so that today's work has plenty of time to cure and outgas.

 

Bloody hell. That were a bit of a marathon.

Hope you like what you're seeing.

I'm off to make hot-dogs now and possibly a celebratory Martini. 🌭🌭🌭🌭🌭 🍸🍸🍸

Hope you guys are doing ok yourselves?

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[Spookytooth]

All that hard work is paying off now Tony.

The tonal and texture variations are adding to this great build.

Simon.

[Terry1954]

It's turning into a metal packet, yes! Good call to leave it for a few days I would say.

 

Terry

[bbudde]

That looks very fine and very promising Tony!! A welll deserved Martini with some jummy fast food (self made is always better). Fine here at the moment with 22° C  and rain (yeah!!!) and some sun and a nice wind. Although too late for our Aasee here since last Thursday, when it switched completely. All fish  died  then. More than 300000 on one day. So no bicycle tour for me there yesterday as usual. Cheers

Edited August 13, 2018 by bbudde

[perdu]

Outstanding

 

Variations?

 

Subtle?

 

Well naturally, you simply have a way with this stuff and you've made me a: jealous and b: determined to learn how to do it your ways

Guru

 

 

[Cookenbacher]

A masterclass Tony, I've got the last few pages bookmarked for future reference.

'Argent Boxcar' could be an excellent band name, or the codename of an obscure '60's covert operation.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Lustrous Argent?

 

Hold Your Head Up, indeed.  [And don’t pretend you’re too young to know what I am talking about, you lot]

[Spookytooth]

7 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Lustrous Argent?

 

Hold Your Head Up, indeed.  [And don’t pretend you’re too young to know what I am talking about, you lot]

"Woman" is the next word to that song.

I spoke to Rod "Argent " about it when he was touring with the Zombies, nice chap.

 

Simon.

[hendie]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I've noticed on quite a few blogs and forum entries a tendency for Alclad  to induce a semi-paralysis in some modellers, in that everything has to go on in one rigid set of perfections of the kind you frequently see in modelling magazines.

I think this is one reason why it seems so intimidating to use for some people.  

 

Nope, not for me.    It sprays beautifully and with ease.  Looks great. 

but it won't stay on the darn thing no matter what I try.  Chrome is definitely the worst for that issue, the aluminums don't seem to be quite as bad, but I've got to the point now where I WILL NOT touch the beast until I have at least one coat of aqua gloss on there.

 

 

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I'm not going to touch for now for a couple of days so that today's work has plenty of time to cure and outgas.

 

and just what are we expected to do in the meantime?

 

 

[The Spadgent]

Wowzers! Such masking and silvery goodness I hope you’re happy with that because it’s looking great from here dear boy. Yes from experience all the “pre” work that goes under silver tends to get lost. I add variations and shading with “Tamiya smoke” but you knew that. 😉

I’m so looking forward to the results of all that masking. 

wonderful work.

 

Johnny.

[keefr22]

41 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Hold Your Head Up,

 

Yep, Hold your head high, Tony, that does look most stunningly silvery!

 

4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

 ....a tendency for Alclad to induce a semi-paralysis in some modellers.....This is quite unnecessarily.

 

I still find Alclad to be a somewhat fickle paint. The first time I used it, it was also the White Aluminium on a Yak 25. Acting on the advice of our good General Melchett I somewhat nervously masked over it about 10-15 minutes after application - & was amazed when none of it peeled off when the tape was removed. Next time I used the stuff from the same bottle with the same preparation, same primer etc, when I masked over it the whole lot of Alclad under the tape came off with it when removed...!! So I stripped it all off and went back to good old Humbrol 11! The only thing I could think of was maybe the shelf life of an opened bottle has some bearing?

 

Keith

[CedB]

Shiny, at last. Yum  

[Bandsaw Steve]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

 

I've noticed on quite a few blogs and forum entries a tendency for Alclad  to induce a semi-paralysis in some modellers, in that everything has to go on in one rigid set of perfections of the kind you frequently see in modelling magazines.

I think this is one reason why it seems so intimidating to use for some people.  

This is quite unnecessarily.

 

 

Oh, by the way. All that fancy underpainting with gloss and matt blacks and so forth. Waste of time in that it rapidly disappeared under the first coat. In the Doog's models video I posted a while back he got best results from using a Tamiya AS-12 base so having a metal base coat seems to be the key,

 

Here’s a true story that goes to show how silly this can get.

 

A few years ago I was building a 1/48 P38 lightning and thought I would try to do an NMF finish using Alclad. I went to the local hobby shop and grabbed a couple of likely looking bottles and took them to the counter.

 

A very serious look fell over the face of the shop assistant. ‘I don’t think you should buy this’ he told me ‘you need to be an expert to use this’  (well that definitely ruled me out!). ‘If you really want to use this’ he wisely intoned ‘you MUST use a perfectly applied gloss black undercoat - do you have Alclad gloss black undercoat?’ 

 

‘No’ I replied ashamed of myself.

 

’Then I suggest you try one of the easier-to-use products’ he concluded.

 

And that, dear reader, is why - to this day - I have never used Alclad! 🙄

[Bandsaw Steve]

And now Hendie is laughing at me! 😡  😪😪

 

(Not that that ever really matters!) 🤪🤪🤪

[hendie]

not at all.... I'm laughing with you!     what a plonker of a sales person.

[giemme]

I newd a bigger screen, I need a bigger screen!

 

Can't wait to see when you take the masks off

 

Ciao

Edited August 14, 2018 by giemme

[Cookenbacher]

Yes, waiting impatiently for the unmasking!

 

Oh Tony, some advice that you obviously don't need: Vallejo Metal Color sprays fine over Alclad, and I used it to do some subtle post shading on High Speed silver Spitfires a while back.

[Bandsaw Steve]

3 hours ago, hendie said:

     what a plonker of a sales person.

I don’t know so much - he obviously had me sussed out as a ‘non-expert’. Can’t fault his judgement, 😜

[perdu]

That idiot is one of the reasons myths grow about this relaxing and restorative hobby

 

Follow Tony's lead and become that expert, I feel happier giving Alclad a go when I see the way he and other modellers get on with it

 

I also need a bigger screen so I will takes this up to the 17" screen

[keefr22]

6 hours ago, perdu said:

I feel happier giving Alclad a go when I see the way he and other modellers get on with it

 

 

Don't forget Bill - you MUST use a perfectly applied gloss black undercoat  and - do you have Alclad gloss black undercoat?’  

 

Keith

[perdu]

🤣

[John Masters]

I would love to try Alclad.  The only drawback is that I really don't have away to vent the fumes properly, hence my using acrylics.  It might not be great, but it is not so toxic.  Am I righting assuming that I would need a mask, vented fan, etc...?

[TheBaron]

19 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

The tonal and texture variations are adding to this great build.

Not to mention giving my eyes gyp trying to judge whether a shiny surface looks too dark or light in varying light - no two angles look the same! 🕵️‍♂️

19 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Good call to leave it for a few days I would say.

That was indeed the intention Terry, however I noticed a mistake at breakfast time that I've just spent my lunchbreak correcting. One of the perils of working from home and knowing you won't be happy to get back to paid work until you've corrected the far more important matter of the build....

19 hours ago, bbudde said:

All fish  died  then. More than 300000 on one day. So no bicycle tour for me there yesterday as usual.

I've developed a great fondness for you weather reports Benedikt (keep them up! 😁) but saddened to read about that dieback of fish. I'd seen photographs in one of the UK newspapers - it looked extremely distressing.

19 hours ago, perdu said:

Well naturally, you simply have a way with this stuff and you've made me a: jealous and b: determined to learn how to do it your ways

If there's a knack to this Bill it is simply a mixture of deep curiosity about what various media can do, allied to an endless tolerance of my own silly mistakes.  Or as the great Flann O'Brien was wont to explain it:

“There are five [rules of wisdom] in all.
Always ask any questions that are to be asked and never answer any. Turn everything you hear to your own advantage. Always carry a repair outfit. Take left turns as much as possible. Never apply your front brake first.” 

18 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

A masterclass Tony, I've got the last few pages bookmarked for future reference.

Pleased to have been able to help Cookie - if only because some of my mistakes are the modelling equivalent of Achtung-Minen! for others to avoid! 😄

19 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

'Argent Boxcar' could be an excellent band name, or the codename of an obscure '60's covert operation.

16 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Lustrous Argent?

 

Hold Your Head Up, indeed.  [And don’t pretend you’re too young to know what I am talking about, you lot]

For some reason I always remember the adverts for his music shop in the classified pages of Sounds and Melody Maker whilst I was in sixth form. I went looking for it earlier and was nearly overwhelmed by the nostalgia of all the old printed pages...

16 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

I spoke to Rod "Argent " about it when he was touring with the Zombies, nice chap.

Yes, that's all very well Simon but did he make models?

16 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

I’m so looking forward to the results of all that masking.

I must admit to a scintilla of curiosity myself about the matter Johnny...

17 hours ago, hendie said:

but it won't stay on the darn thing no matter what I try. 

What have you been priming with hendie? I used both Halford's grey, Alclad Black primer, as well as their black gloss on the Lancaster mule and I can't shift the stuff from any of the three with the hardest rubbing.

 

That's a poser it's not working for you but regrettably I no reservoir of experience to call on to advise. Sorry. 

17 hours ago, hendie said:

and just what are we expected to do in the meantime?

Clear your garden path and then let the gerbil have a go at ye again. That should keep you busy.

15 hours ago, keefr22 said:

that does look most stunningly silvery!

There's already been three crashes outside the house from the glare....

15 hours ago, keefr22 said:

The only thing I could think of was maybe the shelf life of an opened bottle has some bearing?

Given the volatility of the ingredients there's every chance that chemistry is the factor over time Keith, as you say.

15 hours ago, CedB said:

Shiny, at last. Yum

Better keep it hidden from the magpies!

15 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

’Then I suggest you try one of the easier-to-use products’ he concluded.

Steve: was that when you bought the bandsaw? To dispose of the body?

12 hours ago, giemme said:

I newd a bigger screen, I need a bigger screen!

 

Can't wait to see when you take the masks off 

Just for you Giorgio I peeled off one of the propellers. (see below).

10 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

Oh Tony, some advice that you obviously don't need: Vallejo

Quite the opposite Cookie - I'm most grateful for that nugget!

Being so new to the metalpaintwerk vibe that I'm soaking up advice.

9 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Can’t fault his judgement,

Yes, but he's probably still stuck behind a till Steve whereas you are riding high amidst the glamour of the modelling world.

Who's laughing now eh? 

7 hours ago, perdu said:

I also need a bigger screen so I will takes this up to the 17" screen

I'm going to need a bigger camera.....

2 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

 

Don't forget Bill - you MUST use a perfectly applied gloss black undercoat  and - do you have Alclad gloss black undercoat?’  

Will that stop the chafing?

3 minutes ago, John D.C. Masters said:

I would love to try Alclad.  The only drawback is that I really don't have away to vent the fumes properly, hence my using acrylics.  It might not be great, but it is not so toxic.  Am I righting assuming that I would need a mask, vented fan, etc...?

John. I don't have a venting fan for spraying the likes of Alclad but do use a mask like this to keep out the harmful vapours as well as particulates:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EJIMZT8/ref=sxnav_sxwds-bovbp-p_mh_h_2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=0072b939-78ce-4a08-8806-5b1827e9abb8&pd_rd_wg=g2JWe&pf_rd_r=914BY8FZATCPD966PDP6&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-nav&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B00EJIMZT8&pd_rd_w=ybLc5&pf_rd_i=3m+mask&pd_rd_r=6f60c62d-c0cb-4651-9cbc-c15a743488cc&ie=UTF8&qid=1534258695&sr=2

There are cheaper versions on the 'bay that will use the same high-quality vapour filters.

 

With the work-room door shut and the window wide open I can get the spraying done indoors without polluting the rest of the house. Usually after spraying I just leave the window open and door shut for an hour or two to disperse the fumes.

 

An unanticipated post today due to that mistake I alluded to above in my reply to Terry, to whit:

That (re-) masking with film down the length of the underside there is due to an irritating (rather than fatal) error on my part yesterday. I'd masked of the underside to spray it with a steel mist to darken it down but then foolishly forgot to switch the masking over so that the underside was masked and the lower part of side clear again. The result was a nice big unwanted stripe the length of the aircraft between underside and top edge of the masking tape. I used scrap masking film rather than Washi tape as being transparent it allows you to accurately position the corrective masking without any overlap. You can where I'm in the process of working that over again here:

Once that was done and  - don't think I haven't noticed - sensing a certain restlessness in the audience, I slipped a shoulder strap off the dress so-to-speak:

To say that the Oramask/cutter combination astounds me every time is an understatement. A slight touch-up need on the black blade base (put your teeth in to say that fast...) at the 10 o'clock position but otherwise razor-sharp outlines down to the sub-millimetre level. Well chuffed.

 

I want to do some tints and shades on this with oil later on but obviously can't straight onto the Alclad. This is an additional reason why I'm keeping the masking on so that I can seal the metal without affecting surfaces like the orange panels that need to remain matt. Earlier then I did a test on the Mulecaster:

Dead centre in this photo  (and all the others below is an untreated strip, to the left (as show above) painted with diluted Galeria, to the right with Pledge.

These aircraft appear with a range of surface effects but on operations at the time seem neither massively over-polished, nor dull matte:

I've taken these shots with the light coming from behind, in front, and from the side, to show these variations:

The inboard-most one looks acceptable with a Pledge sealing coat - to my eye it neither over-glossing the surface (and making it look too 'glassy') but neither dulling in in a manner that I've read people moaning about on other forums. The Galeria effect on this I'm going to file away for future reference as a potential solution to worn silver-doped fabric.

 

Ok, Back to paid work...

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hendie]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

What have you been priming with hendie?

 

Alclad grey primer... maybe the black is worth a try?

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Clear your garden path and then let the gerbil have a go at ye again. That should keep you busy.

 

I knew that statement would come back to bite me

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

These aircraft appear with a range of surface effects but on operations at the time seem neither massively over-polished, nor dull matte:

 

the one thing I have noticed with a/c in bare metal finish is that even a 'shiny' finish has a *dull* deep sheen to it (yes, oxymoron time).  Most of the models in bare metal finish are too bright, too sparkly almost (if anyone understands what I'm trying to say).  I wonder what a wax polish would look like on alclad? Or even a very light, very fine micromeshing of the alclad followed up with some car wax? Would that provide the requisite dullness and shinitude?

I'm only asking cos I'm too lazy to go and alclad something myself to try it out

 

 

props on the props by the way - very nice