Concorde new tool?

[kiseca]

2 minutes ago, noelh said:

They did actually.

I just caught up on Wikipedia.. looks like they did indeed, but the flights took place in Russia. I'm wrong about it flying in the USA unless anyonr knows better.

[Noel Smith]

I did say in my earlier post that the Tupolev briefly went into service on domestic flights as Kiseka has just verified.

I think it was the prototype that crashed at the Paris Air Show.

[Whitewolf]

11 hours ago, kiseca said:

I just caught up on Wikipedia.. looks like they did indeed, but the flights took place in Russia. I'm wrong about it flying in the USA unless anyonr knows better.

The aircraft used was the last TU144 built and was modified with the same engines used in the TU160. It was later put up for sale, but could not leave Russia due to the engines.

[Giorgio N]

Considering the kits recently issued, I would not be surprised to see a new tool 1/144 Concorde kit at some point. There's a relatively recent Britannia, why not a Concorde?

I'd probably not expect it from the likes of Airfix or Revell, more likely from Roden, ICM or similar companies. That's where most recent 1/144 airliner kits seem to have come from.

A 1/72 kit would be a different story... someone may offer one but I can only see a few dedicated short run manufacturers trying

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello,

Most of the following comes from the Yefin Gordon's and Vladimir Rigmants book Tupolev Tu-144 - Russia's Concorde (Midland 2005).

Tu-144 never flew in USA, all the testing on Tu-144 LL (flying laboratory with NK-32 engines, conversion costed NASA 350 millions $) has been done in Russia. Outside SSSR various Tu-144s flew to Paris on several occasions and also performed promotional flights to Praga, Budimpesta, Warszava, Berlin, Hannover, Sofia etc. During performance on 1973 Le Bourget air show the second Tu-144 (new production prototype due to many changes from original prototype) dipped her nose and after a shallow descent fell appart during the sharp pull up. It has been speculated that the descent has been caused by the photo Mirage III (with the task to video Tu-144 performance from the air) which appeared in the aircraft's flight path. Decades ago I watched a documentary in which one of the Concorde pilot stated that such maneuvre could cause disturbance to engine airflow and even a flameout. He speculated, that perhaps the crew was to busy starting engine(s) and did not notice the plane is descending lower and lower, which caused pilot's sudden pull on the control column. However, the forces were not that great and the plane's structure should have copped with them. Obviously there must have been a fatal flaw somewhere.

In service the Tu-144 was something of a nuisance. The only Aeroflot route was Moskva - Alma Ata (today Almaty) with flights once a week and that despite the airliner having eight Tu-144 in service at the time. Crews were mix of Tupolev and Aeroflot pilots, the latter flying as co-pilots. Tickets had been sold for 82 rubles, 20 more than for regular jet airliner flights on the same route, but the Tu-144 was still far from profitable. When one of the Tu-144 D crashed during test flights (pilots survived, but two test engineers were killed), regular service of both versions (Tu-144 sans sufix for passenger flights and Tu-144 D starting with postal flights) had been cancelled.

Personally I like Tu-144 and as a kid I built Plasticard kit in 1/100. Would like to have 1/72 kit of that plane but, as I wrote in my previous post, the price of Modelsvit kit is too steep for me. Cheers

Jure

[cmatthewbacon]

In the mean time, if you're looking for a Concorde for your desk that has some presence, and doesn't have the fit issues of the older 1/144 tools, then consider the Heller 1/125 kit. It's not the 60s tooling (though the 1/100 kit in the dual box with a same scale Caravelle that's easily available again now has some nostalgic vibes done old-school style) and is crisp, fits together well, and sure looks like a Concorde when it's finished...

best,

M.

[Giorgio N]

17 minutes ago, cmatthewbacon said:

In the mean time, if you're looking for a Concorde for your desk that has some presence, and doesn't have the fit issues of the older 1/144 tools, then consider the Heller 1/125 kit. It's not the 60s tooling (though the 1/100 kit in the dual box with a same scale Caravelle that's easily available again now has some nostalgic vibes done old-school style) and is crisp, fits together well, and sure looks like a Concorde when it's finished...

best,

M.

 

Doyusha also had a 1/100 kit, originally released by Nitto and IIRC based on the prototypes. 

[BillF67]

Just out of interest, without going too far into profit margins and the like, how many units of a kit would a company expect to have to shift to make it viable? Assume new tooling.

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, BillF67 said:

Just out of interest, without going too far into profit margins and the like, how many units of a kit would a company expect to have to shift to make it viable? Assume new tooling.

 

Depends on many things like the manufacturing process, where it's produced, the expected price and several others.

In any case if we speak of injected plastic we're in the thousands, with short run kits in the low thousands and "mainstream" kits higher up. I'd expect that anything below 5,000 units would not be considered positively by a major manufacturer

 

[Airbusboy]

Given that Zvezda are Russian and have a wide 1/144 portfolio already, a 1/144 Tu-144 from them wouldn't be too surprising. Concorde, perhaps not.

[Henners]

3 hours ago, cmatthewbacon said:

In the mean time, if you're looking for a Concorde for your desk that has some presence, and doesn't have the fit issues of the older 1/144 tools, then consider the Heller 1/125 kit. It's not the 60s tooling (though the 1/100 kit in the dual box with a same scale Caravelle that's easily available again now has some nostalgic vibes done old-school style) and is crisp, fits together well, and sure looks like a Concorde when it's finished...

best,

M.

Hadn't realised there was a 1/125 option. How's consensus on the quality of the Heller model?

[cmatthewbacon]

47 minutes ago, Henners said:

Hadn't realised there was a 1/125 option. How's consensus on the quality of the Heller model?

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, mine stopped at this point, owing to a lack of decals for the BA scheme in 1/125 (I ordered some, but after two tries, the guy couldn't get them the right size). Then it got lost in a house move. But I remember it being an OK build, and you can decide for yourself if it looks the part...

best,

M.

[Giorgio N]

21 hours ago, Airbusboy said:

Given that Zvezda are Russian and have a wide 1/144 portfolio already, a 1/144 Tu-144 from them wouldn't be too surprising. Concorde, perhaps not.

 

It's been announced as part of Zvezda 's 2024 news.

There's also a kit from ICM, first issued a dozen year ago and also reboxed bt Revell. Tupolev's SST seems to have been decently represented in 1/144 scale

[RichG]

22 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

It's been announced as part of Zvezda 's 2024 news.

I do rather like Zvezda kits.  If the Tu144 is a new kit - which I'm certain it is - then I think I'll have to get one!  

Be nice to see them do a Concorde to go alongside it at some point down the line.  

 

Rich

Edited December 23, 2023 by RichG

[Giorgio N]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:56 AM, RichG said:

I do rather like Zvezda kits.  If the Tu144 is a new kit - which I'm certain it is - then I think I'll have to get one!  

Be nice to see them do a Concorde to go alongside it at some point down the line.  

 

Rich

 

Would be a good way to recreate this scene:

 

 

That is not a great picture but I thought it would be cool to show the two aircraft together.. A few years ago I visited the Technik Museum in Sinsheim (Germany) and they have both a Concorde and a Tu-144. It was great for me to be able to see both aircraft inside and outside, one of the reason why I got kits of both, even if I'm not really into airliners. My Tu-144 is the Revell rebox of the ICM kit that I actually bought at the museum shop. The Concorde I have is Revell's own old kit, that if I understand right is still the better (or maybe less worse...) option on the market.

[Chief Cohiba]

I was there as well. It was a rather windy and rainy day, and the Concorde was rather shaky, the metal stairs wet and it wasn't that much of a comfy experience.

 

But it might have given quite an impression how it felt in it, especially in the Tuploev (which I found more impressive, to be honest).

 

Here's some moody pics from my visit:

 

 

 

I plan to create a similar arrangement on my desk, once I finished mine.

[Bertie McBoatface]

That's both a striking and frustrating way to display aircraft in a museum. I love and hate it in equal measures. 😱🤩

[kiseca]

31 minutes ago, Chief Cohiba said:

 

But it might have given quite an impression how it felt in it, especially in the Tuploev (which I found more impressive, to be honest).

 

 

 

Can I ask what you found more impressive about the Tu-144? That's not a loaded question by the way, I am just interested 😄

 

When I was young I found the Tupolev more impressive because on Top Trumps it had better numbers, and it's slightly more angular look, at the time to me looked faster too. I thought it was better looking, a bit wilder, like a Countach looks wilder than a 512BB. Probably also it looked more exotic compared to Concorde, which I'd seen plenty of photos of and so was a familiar shape.

 

Nowadays to me, now I have more info, Concorde is more impressive because of its service record and ability to supercruise, and the lower noise and better reliability. But that's just a personal thing. It broke some of the mystique the Tu-144 had for me.

 

But I'm not sure if you mean something about the exterior, or the interior, or the display itself.

Edited December 29, 2023 by kiseca

[Chief Cohiba]

2 minutes ago, kiseca said:

I ask what you found more impressive about the Tu-144?

Sure, and that's a very comprehensible question. Which I can only partly answer.

 

Of course my impression wasn't based by any means on facts, rather the opposite. For what we know, the Tu-144 was never really a totally trustworthy thing to fly on, and never made it into real regular service. E.g. I once read the it was a more of a duty for higher rank representatives of the Soviet communist party by that time to fly on it, than a privilege, and not really a pleasure. More to show it is trustworthy by action, than by mere numbers.

 

Other than the real service flying Concorde, it was more of an adventurous prototyp, from what I guess.

 

Like flying on an A380, which is the much more modern and comfortable than an 747 - but also a good measure more boring, especially when you compare it to the 70ies image of the teak-cladded upper deck, with flare-trousered celebrities and models in space age dresses lounging around.

 

It was the same with the Tu-144; it simply was more of an immersion into that era, more "oozing" the spirit of that age, the competition between the blocks - and also of the spirit of optimism, when building a super sonic passenger plane was meant to be a symbol for bringing the people of the peace loving nations closer together.

 

The Concorde was the real world passenger plane it was - the Tupolev was more the time travelling machine into the cold war, and, funny enough, the ideal of that era.

 

I don't know it if makes sense, why I considered entering the Tupolev more impressive than the Concorde. But that's why, if I think about it.

[kiseca]

That makes sense, thank you.

[Seahawk]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:25 PM, Bozothenutter said:

Soooo, what aircraft would Marilyn be?

With area-ruling like that, she’d have to be a Buccaneer.

[Bozothenutter]

15 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

With area-ruling like that, she’d have to be a Buccaneer.

Quite a good call actually!

[Scooby]

On 12/16/2023 at 6:27 AM, Bozothenutter said:

/sarcasm on:

What's a Concorde?

/sarcasm off

 

While I agree with your sentiment,  the Concorde was a very niche aircraft, not a lot could afford to go on it, in its later years its use didn't make the press anymore. 

I think it's a bit forgotten by the general public. 

My son wasn’t born in the days that the Concorde flew, but he has been on three in museums and has the Lego set, disagree that it was a very niche aircraft. My mom and I even flew on one and only paid $50 Cdn each.

 

The Concorde is an aviation legend/icon.

[Orso]

An airliner built in only 20 ex, included prototypes and pre-production planes must be considered a niche aircraft but I agree, it isn't forgotten

[Admiral Puff]

I bought the 1:72 Heller/Airfix disaster. It's half built and stalled, because I can't get the area around the cockpit/visor right. If it ever gets finished it will be done as the B O Airways/Singapore Airlines one. A new, accurate one in 1:72 would be more than welcome ...