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British aircraft in UK armed forces.


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Whilst writing about the Poseidon MRA1,I got to thinking about how much American kit we now have ( no politics please) We have a few European,Canadian and Brazilian but what about British ?

Here's what I think we still have from 'Designed in Britain':

Lancaster

Spitfire

Hurricane

Wildcat (helicopter)

Merlin   (is this a British design although multi-national build?)

Typhoon (ditto)

Defender

 

Any I missed?

Edited by Scimitar
Clarification.
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1 hour ago, Troffa said:

The Apache were licence built in the UK (England), All of the Merlin and all the Tornados were built here as well. 

Apache is American design though.

I thought Tornado was just assembled here from parts made throughout Europe? Was original British design for the MRCA accepted by Germany and Italy thus becoming Tornado?

35 minutes ago, depressed lemur said:

Chipmunk?

De Havilland Canada design I think?

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The Tornado was a truly collaborative venture, with the design workshare of 42% each for the UK and Germany, and 15% for Italy- All three Nations had their own production lines so all three Nations received parts and assemblies from their tripartite partners.

The Chaps and Chapesses at Warton did a great deal more than assemble a kit of Parts.  

The Bill Gunston book Panavia Tornado (Modern Combat Aircraft 6) is a great short history of the Tornado and is currently going for as little as sum of 9 New Pence (!) on a certain online retailer. Well worth a few coppers!

 

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1 hour ago, Scimitar said:

De Havilland Canada design I think?

Chipmunk

If you accept the Short Tucano (Embraer of Brazil design, built in Belfast) then you must accept the Chipmunk, the RAF ones were built in UK.

 

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1 hour ago, DAG058 said:

Puma

Islander

Defender

Shorts Tucano 

Watchkeeper

Puma is French design

I classed Islander and Defender as the same aircraft

Tucano is another Brazillian

 

I didn't include UAVs but Watchkeeper is an Israeli design.

 

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47 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

the Short Tucano

I didn't include it

Please note that I have modified the criteria to designed in Britain as I realised 'Made in Britain' was ambiguous.

My apologies to those who have replied with aircraft built here but designed elsewhere.  (off to the naughty step now)

 

My thinking on this subject was  on how much we now depend on others for our national defence. I won't add my thoughts on this as we would breach the no political rule.

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39 minutes ago, Scimitar said:

My thinking on this subject was  on how much we now depend on others for our national defence. 

Not like in the good old days...

 

Together_Art.IWMPST3158.jpg

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Re. Tornado and Typhoon: of the two the Tornado is really the British one, way more so than the Typhoon. Yes, Tornado assemblies was built in all 3 countries and assembled in each of the 3 for their own forces, however most of the design came from Britain and really it can be seen as a British type with some help from the other 2 (and a few more as  countries like the Netherlands and the US contributed quite a bit). Moreover, the original Tornado program was supposed to result in something quite different but in the end Britain convinced all other partners to accept what they were looking for, that is a strike aircraft.

The Typhoon program on the other hand saw a lot of cooperation right from the start of the design and while the previous BAe programs had a strong input others came from programs in which the partners had been involved (like the US-German TKF-90).

I woild also class the Merlin as a true joint-venture design as the then EH Industries that led the development received input from both Westland and Agusta.

 

On the subject of depending on others for defence, I believe it's interesting to note that the British Army have employed foreign designed guns for a very long time without any problem. The Martini Henry was a Swiss design modified in the US, the Lee Metford and Lee Enfield action was an American design (yes, James Lee was born in the UK but migrated when a child and always considered himself an American), the SLR was Belgian and so were the Browning pistol and the GPMG, the Bren and the Besa were from Czechoslovakia and there are other examples.

Interestingly during the selection of both the Martini Henry and the later Lee Metford, a number of local manufactuters proposed designs and were very vocal in claiming that any new rifle had to be of British design. The Ordance Board however kept following a very steady principle: whatever we adopt has to be the best for the job we can get, regardless of provenance. I'd say that they made the right decisions after all as all the arms I mentioned were among the best in their class.

To add irony to the matter, the British designed P14 ended up being used very little by the British Army but was widely employed by the US in WW1...

 

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I'm slightly shocked the Harrier hasn't been mentioned (unless it has and I'm an idiot, of course). Probably the best and most famous piece of British aviation engineering. So good the Americans are still using it even though we (rightly or wrongly) gave it up!

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Canberra anyone ? Again, so good the Americans stole, er bought it.

 

Graham

 

ps Vulcan, Victor and Valiant.

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1 hour ago, LooseSeal said:

I'm slightly shocked the Harrier hasn't been mentioned (unless it has and I'm an idiot, of course). Probably the best and most famous piece of British aviation engineering. So good the Americans are still using it even though we (rightly or wrongly) gave it up!

 

1 hour ago, GrahamS said:

Canberra anyone ? Again, so good the Americans stole, er bought it.

 

Graham

 

ps Vulcan, Victor and Valiant.

 

The original post clearly asked about types currently in service, none of the types mentioned is today in service in Britain 

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9 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

 

The original post clearly asked about types currently in service, none of the types mentioned is today in service in Britain 

 

I guess i was was distracted by the rather odd inclusion of the BBMF, but hey thanks for the condescension in response to a mere suggestion. You sound like a fun chap.

 

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 4:39 PM, Giorgio N said:

 

On the subject of depending on others for defence, I believe it's interesting to note that the British Army have employed foreign designed guns for a very long time without any problem. 

 

Not confined to the Army. The Hispano as the standard cannon in WW II and afterwards was a, well, international design, the ADEN has German roots just like the DEFA in France, and then there's the 27mm Mauser - though the latter may have been part of the Tornado package and the workshare agreements (must re-read the Mason book which is really a superb read and just about as cheap as what has been quoted above for the Gunston MCA).

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3 hours ago, junglierating said:

Sea King Mk7

Basic design was American tough.

With regard to the various weapons from 'foreign' sources not having caused problems in the past. In principle I agree with this but I think that we are now in a very different world situation where we can't really be sure of where certain of our allies are heading.

As you have answered my question..thank you..I think we should let this one rest?

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Gents can we keep this on track, its verged on politics, and also personal insults; neither of which are welcome here.

 

Julien

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