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Poseidon looking good. About time our island nation had a MP capability again.

 

Just need another 3 squadrons of them now to monitor the GIUK gap, Med and Atlantic. 

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On 09/07/2019 at 15:46, Troffa said:

As a long term employee of Yeovil's finest Helicopter Manufacturer- and someone who takes a keen interest in Colour schemes of all of our products for Modelling references- I can assure you that the Aircraft we produce are painted in exactly the colours/materials that the customer requests- with some caveats.

 

In the case of products built under licence- i.e. The WAH64D/ AHMk1 Apache- these were painted to the US Army standard at Yeovil, using Fed Standard paints shipped in from the US. Any change to the paint schemes, or materials employed would require Design Authority approval (i.e. US DOD or Boeing) and would require a change to the drawing suite- neither of which would be without cost. Westland had to produce the Apache to Boeing's standards or would have been hammered for breach of contract.

 

With the [UK's 🙂 ] F35 being wholly produced in the US of A the above will stand, any changes to the painting and markings will incur design work and cost which may be undesirable to the UK MOD in the long term, coupled with the special properties of any materials used in terms of IR or Radar observability that may pose problems

 

As for the Mk4 "Junglie" Merlins being painted in distinctly un-foliage grey-ask the RN or the Integrated Project Team- We will paint them any colour you like, hence the Metallic Green Danish EH101's, the sexy Black CSAR HH-101 and the superb Norwegian SAR Aircraft looking like James Hunt's formula 1 car 🙂

 

Edited for numptyness. Thanks Rick!

 

Thanks for the insight, very informative.

It does seem rather bizarre that the possibility of changing a paint scheme to suit local conditions could result in all manner of legal implications for the customer. So much for nipping down to Halfords for some spray cans and a bit of masking tape ready for Monday morning flight line!

 

I guess we have Henry Ford to thank for this. Any colour as long as it's black (or should that be grey?)

 

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On 7/14/2019 at 5:06 PM, Timbo88 said:

As for the Mk4 "Junglie" Merlins being painted in distinctly un-foliage grey-ask the RN or the Integrated Project Team- We will paint them any colour you like, hence the Metallic Green Danish EH101's, the sexy Black CSAR HH-101 and the superb Norwegian SAR Aircraft looking like James Hunt's formula 1 car 🙂

Well apparently the dit goes that a.its cheaper coz it's the same as a mk2....and since the contract for spraying is with the cornish lot olive drab...is way down the pecking order and

b. Its revisiting our amphibious heritage....really  ...pick the bones out of that ....mind you the USMC use grey so who knows

Edited by junglierating
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On 6/27/2019 at 8:14 PM, pigsty said:

What's wrong with calling it the Poseidon?  It's not been used before (frankly I think "Thunderbolt II" and all that show a woeful lack of imagination), it's maritime, and it's the original god that the Romans copied with Neptune.

Triton might have been a good choice also. In greek mythology Triton( messenger of the sea) is actually the son of Poseidon.

Argus (( Greek mythology - "the many eyed giant") might have been a good choice but, Canada got there first!😁

 

Allan 

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On 7/23/2019 at 8:37 AM, Albeback52 said:

Triton might have been a good choice also. In greek mythology Triton( messenger of the sea) is actually the son of Poseidon.

Argus (( Greek mythology - "the many eyed giant") might have been a good choice but, Canada got there first!😁

 

Allan 

 

That’s why the USN called the MQ4C Triton.

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On 7/23/2019 at 5:37 PM, Albeback52 said:

Triton might have been a good choice also. In greek mythology Triton( messenger of the sea) is actually the son of Poseidon.

Argus (( Greek mythology - "the many eyed giant") might have been a good choice but, Canada got there first!😁

 

Allan 

Didn’t the UK move away from the confusing practice of renaming foreign-supplied aircraft in ~1943? Thinking reverting Tarpon to Avenger and Martlet to Wildcat. 

 

Save for fragile national ego reasons, or an attempt to claim a level of (absent) design input, I can’t see a valid reason to rename platforms that will be required to inter-operate. Confusing a hypothetical UK ‘Triton’ (manned aircraft e.g. P-8) with a US ‘Triton’ (unmanned aircraft) with completely different capabilities, but similar roles, doesn’t sound particularly smart. 

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4 hours ago, GMK said:

Didn’t the UK move away from the confusing practice of renaming foreign-supplied aircraft in ~1943? Thinking reverting Tarpon to Avenger and Martlet to Wildcat. 

 

Save for fragile national ego reasons, or an attempt to claim a level of (absent) design input, I can’t see a valid reason to rename platforms that will be required to inter-operate. Confusing a hypothetical UK ‘Triton’ (manned aircraft e.g. P-8) with a US ‘Triton’ (unmanned aircraft) with completely different capabilities, but similar roles, doesn’t sound particularly smar

Considering I had never even heard of that unmanned aircraft until I read your comment, it didn't seem such a bad idea at the time

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 11:20 PM, junglierating said:

b. Its revisiting our amphibious heritage....really  ...pick the bones out of that ....

Is there anyone out there who can explain to me why this "revisiting our amphibious heritage" stuff is not complete and utter nonsense, intended for consumption by those who neither know nor care?  Saving 50p on the costs of repainting, on the other hand, does have the ring of truth about it.

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8 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Is there anyone out there who can explain to me why this "revisiting our amphibious heritage" stuff is not complete and utter nonsense, intended for consumption by those who neither know nor care?  Saving 50p on the costs of repainting, on the other hand, does have the ring of truth about it.

50p if only😬

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/28/2019 at 10:42 PM, Seahawk said:

Is there anyone out there who can explain to me why this "revisiting our amphibious heritage" stuff is not complete and utter nonsense, intended for consumption by those who neither know nor care?  Saving 50p on the costs of repainting, on the other hand, does have the ring of truth about it.

 Green helicopters are associated with either the Army or the RAF. Grey helicopters are more associated with the RN after the proliferation of grey helicopters from the late 1980s onwards. It translates as ‘attempting to make sure that people see a grey helicopter and think ‘Royal Navy’ rather than RAF or Army’....

 

Obviously, given the joint nature of helicopter operations (*cough*), ‘not wanting to be associated with those oiks from junior services’ isn’t an acceptable answer.

 

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20 hours ago, XV107 said:

 Green helicopters are associated with either the Army or the RAF. Grey helicopters are more associated with the RN after the proliferation of grey helicopters from the late 1980s onwards. It translates as ‘attempting to make sure that people see a grey helicopter and think ‘Royal Navy’ rather than RAF or Army’....

 

Obviously, given the joint nature of helicopter operations (*cough*), ‘not wanting to be associated with those oiks from junior services’ isn’t an acceptable answer.

 

 

It also has the effect of making a Pinger or a Junglie harder to tell apart from a distance, whcih could be an advantage in some situations, and the fact that grey helicopters are harder to spot from the ground than green ones.

Edited by Dave Fleming
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On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 1:19 PM, magman2 said:

 

RAF Poseidon MRA 1 ZP802   🙂 

Net Photo (Boeing/RAF)

Ooh, so close … would it kill 'em to paint the roof white … ?

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22 hours ago, XV107 said:

 Green helicopters are associated with either the Army or the RAF. Grey helicopters are more associated with the RN after the proliferation of grey helicopters from the late 1980s onwards. It translates as ‘attempting to make sure that people see a grey helicopter and think ‘Royal Navy’ rather than RAF or Army’....

 

Obviously, given the joint nature of helicopter operations (*cough*), ‘not wanting to be associated with those oiks from junior services’ isn’t an acceptable answer.

 

Interesting. This came to mind yesterday while watching a camouflaged Royal Australian Navy MRH-90 conducting a fast rope demonstration at an open day:

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/7hFQ4Cj

 

Of course, here the RAAF don’t own any helicopters, so anything rotary wing is Army or Navy. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 10:49 PM, XV107 said:

 Green helicopters are associated with either the Army or the RAF. Grey helicopters are more associated with the RN after the proliferation of grey helicopters from the late 1980s onwards. It translates as ‘attempting to make sure that people see a grey helicopter and think ‘Royal Navy’ rather than RAF or Army’....

 

Oh, great!  In the mad MoD of today "branding" is a more compelling rationale for the Top Neddies than the survival of personnel, to which camouflage, however peripherally nowadays, might be presumed to contribute.

 

Actually I can see that in many conditions eg Middle Eastern haze, grey would be a more effective camouflage colour.  And, if the Culdrose Merlin paintshop already have the paint gun loaded up with grey, well...

 

None of which moves me one inch (2.54cm to our younger readers) from still believing the "revisiting our naval heritage" stuff is complete cobblers.  Late 1980s is not heritage.

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On 8/23/2019 at 10:49 PM, XV107 said:

 Green helicopters are associated with either the Army or the RAF. Grey helicopters are more associated with the RN after the proliferation of grey helicopters from the late 1980s onwards. It translates as ‘attempting to make sure that people see a grey helicopter and think ‘Royal Navy’ rather than RAF or Army’....

 

Obviously, given the joint nature of helicopter operations (*cough*), ‘not wanting to be associated with those oiks from junior services’ isn’t an acceptable answer.

 

Not sure what your trying to say there but I can say that I and many other senior service junglie have been on active service in all the conflicts around the world...me personally....since GW1 onwards 

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On 8/25/2019 at 12:35 PM, Seahawk said:

Oh, great!  In the mad MoD of today "branding" is a more compelling rationale for the Top Neddies than the survival of personnel, to which camouflage, however peripherally nowadays, might be presumed to contribute.

 

Actually I can see that in many conditions eg Middle Eastern haze, grey would be a more effective camouflage colour.  And, if the Culdrose Merlin paintshop already have the paint gun loaded up with grey, well...

 

None of which moves me one inch (2.54cm to our younger readers) from still believing the "revisiting our naval heritage" stuff is complete cobblers.  Late 1980s is not heritage.

Clearly didnt' get that across as well as I wanted - yes, it's little more, as far as I can see,  than a polite way of saying 'some our senior [naval] officers are paranoid about the crabs and don't like the joint nature of JHC and JF Lightning, and think that the media and the public believe all green helicopters to belong to the RAF or perhaps the Army. So they want RN helicopters to be grey to convey 'all grey helicopters are Naval helicopters' - ergo, cobblers based on a couple of individuals (for whom George Zambellas would've had hard words, and who'd get a raised eyebrow from Tony Radakin [I was once his Staff College DS. How old does that make me feel?]) not understanding the history of the junglies and attempting to dress up their dislike of their sideways-moving colleagues with corporate guff.

 

4 hours ago, junglierating said:

Not sure what your trying to say there but I can say that I and many other senior service junglie have been on active service in all the conflicts around the world...me personally....since GW1 onwards 

See above - it is, from what I can ascertain, some corporate line being spun to suggest something other than a tactical or fiscal element to the decision, which - if that is the case - is, to put it mildly, another instance of individuals drawing the Mess Webley (Wardroom Webley, I suppose...) and shooting themselves in the foot for the very reason you note: look at all the work done by Green painted (or, once temporary finish removed, green painted) CHF aircraft, and 3 Cdo Bde/847 Squadron Lynxes, and you (well, I do) mutter darkly about missing the bigger picture and writing out a massive chunk of your history to... give your history clearer definition.  [Thinks rude word Mike would rightly edit out]

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Does anyone remember when the RAF Tucano 72 Sqn tribute a/c had it's WWII code 'corrected' from RN-F to RA-F 'so there wouldn't be any confusion as to who operated the aircraft'.................😡🤬

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Sixth mission workstation added to USN, RASF, & RNZAF P-8As. No mention of the RAF. 

 

https://adbr.com.au/first-four-raaf-p-8s-to-get-sixth-mission-workstation/ 

 

“The US Navy has awarded a number of contracts to ....install a sixth mission crew workstation on US Navy and RAAF P-8A ... aircraft.

 

The contracts, totalling about US$34m (A$50m) cover the production and delivery of 56 Sixth Mission Crew Workstation (MCW) Retrofit B-kits.

 

The additional workstation will enable increased mission capability, versatility, data analysis in high workload missions.

 

The four kits will bring all 12 RAAF P-8As delivered or on order up to a common interior standard.

 

The four RNZAF P-8As to be manufactured as part of Lot 11 will also have the sixth MCW.”

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1 hour ago, GMK said:

Sixth mission workstation added to USN, RASF, & RNZAF P-8As. No mention of the RAF. 

 

https://adbr.com.au/first-four-raaf-p-8s-to-get-sixth-mission-workstation/ 

 

“The US Navy has awarded a number of contracts to ....install a sixth mission crew workstation on US Navy and RAAF P-8A ... aircraft.

 

The contracts, totalling about US$34m (A$50m) cover the production and delivery of 56 Sixth Mission Crew Workstation (MCW) Retrofit B-kits.

 

The additional workstation will enable increased mission capability, versatility, data analysis in high workload missions.

 

The four kits will bring all 12 RAAF P-8As delivered or on order up to a common interior standard.

 

The four RNZAF P-8As to be manufactured as part of Lot 11 will also have the sixth MCW.”

 

 

The RAF aircraft are Lot 10 (and RNZAF ones Lot 11) - the article says aircraft from Lot 7 and 8 already had the 6th station, so I would imagine the RAF aircraft will have it too. This is retrofitting to already delivered aircraft.

Edited by Dave Fleming
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/23/2019 at 1:08 PM, bentwaters81tfw said:

Should be knocking these out quite quickly now, seeing as they aren't building MAXs at the moment.

You need to get better informed.   To date, BA is still building MAX's at a high production rate (think around 40 or so per month?).    And regardless, the 737NG based Poseidon is built on a completely separate production line. 

 

 

 

 

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On 24/08/2019 at 19:39, pigsty said:

Ooh, so close … would it kill 'em to paint the roof white … ?

 

Now that would look good!

 

If we ever operate them in hot, dusty places maybe it'd keep the interior cooler too.

 

And to finish off, add the squadron number or last three of the serial in big red numbers with white edging on the rear fuselage.

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