1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash - COMPLETED!

[Cookenbacher]

Giemme, the fact that you're building a Phantom that Gene actually flew just brings this to a new level. Just fantastic. Between following this and Fritag's Hawks I don't know if I'll have time to build anything myself!

I will be more concise in future posts ... I promise!

I certainly hope not, this is all good stuff, and I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying the heck out of it.

[VMA131Marine]

" ]Giemme..... Ummmm.... How do these fly? "

Apparently, it's called suck,blow,bang! At least that's what a tame sootie told me!!

Sorry Giemme, I,ll behave now..................maybe.

Actually, it's suck (or squeeze), bang, blow (suck, bang, blow, bang with afterburner)

for a piston engine aircraft it's suck, squeeze, bang, blow

[Jessica]

Actually, it's suck (or squeeze), bang, blow (suck, bang, blow, bang with afterburner)

for a piston engine aircraft it's suck, squeeze, bang, blow

Given that the 'bang' part is mostly continuous, shouldn't it be suck, squeeze, burn, blow?

[Jens]

This is an F-4N in USAF colours.

They have this:

[Fritag]

the assignment was to the back seat, the rationale being that the airplane was too much to handle for a newly graduated pilot. So we were all a GIB (Guy In Back), quietly bemoaning our fate while looking to the day wed move to the front

How curious - and unappealing. I don't really get how a tour as a GIB was thought to make you better able to handle the jet?

I can see how you'd get operational experience (valuable but different) but unless there was a continuous flying training program on the squadron for the GIBs then weren't you just largely marking time in terms of piloting development and competence?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Fritag

[PlaStix]

Fascinating thread Giemme and Gene and very nice progress.

[giemme]

EDIT: I will be more concise in future posts ... I promise!

No need, we love these insights!

Giemme,

Your daughter is growing up! You should be proud!

And I'm sorry for kind of derailing your thread with all this extraneous stuff. I'll try to keep it about Phantoms from now on... Okay, TRY...

I want to make sure this one is bookmarked for future reference.

Gary

Gary, no problem, we're among friends here Thanks for following

Giemme, the fact that you're building a Phantom that Gene actually flew just brings this to a new level. Just fantastic. Between following this and Fritag's Hawks I don't know if I'll have time to build anything myself!

I certainly hope not, this is all good stuff, and I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying the heck out of it.

See above, I certainly appreciate all the stories that come with this build! Same goes with Fritag's thread

Anyway, hope to see you back to the bench soon (I mean with a WIP on here)

Fascinating thread Giemme and Gene and very nice progress.

Cheers Stix, thanks!

Back for a moment to the model: last night I did play a bit with positioning the MONO tub into HASE fuselage, trimming an cutting on both sides (might have overdone it, I'll have to do some repair). I'm strongly considering the idea to insert the tub from the bottom, after having glued the fuselage halves. Gene, what do you think?

I'll post some pics probably tomorrow

Ciao

[Gene K]

I'm strongly considering the idea to insert the tub from the bottom, after having glued the fuselage halves. Gene, what do you think?

You're the Master Modeller - I'm just the sideline color commentary... BUT ...

it will be much easier (obviously) to position the tub before joining. If you plan to do it after joining the fuselage halves, I'd first glue a "rail" (support) inside each fuselage onto which I could slide front condoles. Make sense?

Fritag, on 05 Dec 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

… unless there was a continuous flying training program on the squadron for the GIBs then weren't you just largely marking time …?

Nail on the head. How much stick time you got as a GIB depended on who your front seater was. In that regard, I was lucky, being crewed with a former F-101 driver ... who was used to having someone else in the airplane to share with.

It was, as you pointed out, valuable experience being a pilot-GIB: since it's a 2 man airplane (back before we had female fighter pilots), the multi-mission system required good crew coordination. So in my opinion, knowing how to manage the pit (like running intercepts and doing radar bombing) definitely made you a better front seater ... but that was a bonus, not necessity.

Gene K

[keefr22]

Just popped in after seeing mention of your thread in Steve's epic Hawk build Giemme.I'll stick around & watch if you don't mind,so shuffle over a bit guys, there's room for a little one at the back...!!

Great work - & stories - so far...!!

Keith

[giemme]

Just popped in after seeing mention of your thread in Steve's epic Hawk build Giemme.I'll stick around & watch if you don't mind,so shuffle over a bit guys, there's room for a little one at the back...!!

Great work - & stories - so far...!!

Keith

I certainly don't mind! Welcome on board Keith!

Ciao

[VMA131Marine]

Given that the 'bang' part is mostly continuous, shouldn't it be suck, squeeze, burn, blow?

Well, for a jet engine the squeeze and blow are continuous too. So, imagine you are in a tiny volume of air as it goes through the engine. You get squeezed in the compressor section, then very hot in the combustor, then blown out through the turbine. If you want to say burn instead of bang I guess it conveys the right idea. For a piston engine it should definitely be "bang" though.

Sorry ... is this off topic?

Edited December 6, 2015 by VMA131Marine

[Cookenbacher]

Anyway, hope to see you back to the bench soon (I mean with a WIP on here)

It's not much of one compared to what's going on here, but just for you Giemme (I've also started on the Typhoon, but no pics yet).

[giemme]

Well, for a jet engine the squeeze and blow are continuous too. So, imagine you are in a tiny volume of air as it goes through the engine. You get squeezed in the compressor section, then very hot in the combustor, then blown out through the turbine. If you want to say burn instead of bang I guess it conveys the right idea. For a piston engine it should definitely be "bang" though.

Sorry ... is this off topic?

:D

Ciao

[giemme]

You're the Master Modeller - I'm just the sideline color commentary... BUT ...

it will be much easier (obviously) to position the tub before joining. If you plan to do it after joining the fuselage halves, I'd first glue a "rail" (support) inside each fuselage onto which I could slide front condoles. Make sense?

It does. Anyway, I thought about it overnight (had dinner with friends last night - fondue bourguignonne and some glasses of good wine, so it took a while to fall asleep ...) and I came to the conclusion that it's probably better to stay with the original plan and glue the tub to one side. I need to do more dryfit test, though. BTW, has anybody got an idea of where I can find good pictures of what's going on behind the back seat and behind the backseater IP (I mean the cables coming out from the back of the instruments)? I'm struggling to find some clear ones

It's not much of one compared to what's going on here, but just for you Giemme (I've also started on the Typhoon, but no pics yet).

Heading there to check it out! Meanwhile, I have a question about your Typhoon: in my box, the tail fin on both fuselage halves is very thin and has a huge warp in it; is this the same in your kit?

Ciao

Edited December 6, 2015 by giemme

[Biggles87]

SuckSqueezeBangBlow is the internal combustion engine if I remember rightly. Induction-compression-ignition-exhaust.

Or am I missing a joke?

Regards

John

[Jessica]

SuckSqueezeBangBlow is the internal combustion engine if I remember rightly. Induction-compression-ignition-exhaust.

Or am I missing a joke?

Regards

John

You're not missing the joke. We're just expanding the metaphor into jet engines.

[yankeemodeller]

I've seen some interesting projects cobbling together F-4 parts from different kits. This one is as complex as they come. Good work!

yankeemodeller,

Yeah, I'm mostly from B'ham, and I well remember the F-4s coming in. Moved to Texas a few years ago for work, but family is still there.

I try to get back every so often so I can visit the Southern Museum of Flight and Homewood Toy and Hobby. IF there was a job

in the area, I would probably move back.

A couple of things about that RF-4C I posted a link to. It's one of two that I know of. One ended up in the Dayton, Ohio Air Force Museum,

the other in front of the VFW hall in Jasper. It's on Highway 78 if you want to drive out and take a look. I wonder how long it's going to be

there as it is open to the weather, and I noticed the canopy is open a crack so rain can seep in and insects. I wish they would at least put

her under shelter.

And this is one crazy build too, in 1/32nd scale. Let's just say that the detail on this one is going to be plentiful.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/162979.aspx

Gary

PS> If they had named the aircraft "Roll Tide" they would have had to paint it crimson!

There was an F-16 in Montgomery, Al. with Roll Tide on it's fuel tank which was painted crimson.

[yankeemodeller]

Gene,

"Proud Redneck" is a badge of honor! I'll gladly answer to it. And on your way north, if you pass through Birmingham, you might want to visit the Southern Museum of Flight (if you have not already). It's located near the

airport, and though the neighborhood is not the best, it is well worth visiting. http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/

They have this:

I'm not sure what this thing is, but it sure looks like it burns kerosene!

And I don't care if the ejection seats have live cartridges, as long as the turbine blades turn and the radio works!

Great story about the GIBs! Isn't bureaucracy a wonderful thing?

Giemme,

Your daughter is growing up! You should be proud!

And I'm sorry for kind of derailing your thread with all this extraneous stuff. I'll try to keep it about Phantoms from now on... Okay, TRY...

I want to make sure this one is bookmarked for future reference.

Gary

Never thought I'd feel so at home on a U.K.forum. I pass by here every day.

[Turbine_Man]

Well, for a jet engine the squeeze and blow are continuous too. So, imagine you are in a tiny volume of air as it goes through the engine. You get squeezed in the compressor section, then very hot in the combustor, then blown out through the turbine. If you want to say burn instead of bang I guess it conveys the right idea. For a piston engine it should definitely be "bang" though.

Sorry ... is this off topic?

I did try to convey the process is continuous until the fuel is shut off by saying SuckSqueezeBangBlow without spaces.. unless it goes into surge when it is bang bang bang bang...

Gas Turbines and Jet engines are amazing simple idea but very difficult to put into application. I consider my 30+ years working on them to be my first hobby..

Sorry yes off topic...

[draggie748]

Giemme,

Great build and I'm looking forward to the finish.

Here's the Phantom collection in my stash.

Cheers

Phil Hastie

Canberra, Australia

Edited December 7, 2015 by draggie748

[giemme]

Gas Turbines and Jet engines are amazing simple idea but very difficult to put into application. I consider my 30+ years working on them to be my first hobby..

Turbine_Man, it's good to have someone here with extended knowledge on jet engines

Giemme,

Great build and I'm looking forward to the finish.

Here's the Phantom collection in my stash.

Phil, thanks for joining! Quite a collection you have there! If you weren't living on the other side of the world, I'd have asked you if you would take part from some of the HASE boxes

Later for some update

Ciao

[giemme]

Hi everybody; here's today's progress report. Bank Holiday tomorrow, and today most of the companies are closed too, so it's a very long WE, with plenty of time for modelling

Tub: I've cut off the back rounded part

Port side fuselage half prepared to receive the MONO tub:

While there, I removed the nose antenna, to make room for the correct IR sensor

Dry fit: it's one picture, but it took a lot of time and fiddling to get there

At this point, I decided to dry fit all the components that are going to be fit into the tub; while cleaning the GIB's control stick, I managed to snap it in two:

so I had to replace the shaft with a rigid copper wire:

Little Jerry in place (right arm still missing)

I pinned his right arm with a steel rod, and made a corresponding receiving hole in the shoulder

so that I could dry fit it properly, together with the control stick

I've added a couple of locating tabs inside the fuselage, to allow for correct tub positioning. I need to do more dry fit testing, but for that I'm first going to glue the front and back fuselage halves, so that I have a better way to provisionally hold everything in position. Here are some preliminary tasks I completed:

Closing the flare door:

a small bit of blue tack to adjust the door position

Glued in with Tamiya Green Cap, now taking care of the seam:

Still needs some sanding, but I'll do that later

Opening the air pressure control window, refined using a square needle file:

Cutting out arrestor hook, as I'll be using the MONO one:

That's it for the day, more to follow tomorrow

Any comment welcome

Edit: I corrected Jerry's name, I used an Italian notation previously

Edited December 7, 2015 by giemme

[keefr22]

Nice work Giorgio - looks like really fiddly stuff, although I've no doubt it'll be well worth it in the end!

I have to say that I've never noticed that air pressure control window before! Is it only open when engines running?

Keith

[Gene K]

Wonderful update!!!

Talk about Jerry (my GIB), here he is. You can pick out such details as the canopy markings, instrument panel, the position of the tub, and the seat ... etc:

Gene K

[Spookytooth]

Nice and tidy Giemme, steady as she goes.

Some great ref Pics from gene K too.

Simon.