1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash - COMPLETED!

[Spookytooth]

So far , so good Giemme.

And with first hand knowledge on/at hand with Gene this is going be a very special build.

Simon.

[Gene K]

... I had to re-glue the lower part of the join between intake and back fuselage.

That's a shame as I was really proud of that join!!!

When you do the other side, line up the panel lines on the fuselage side with the intakes, and glue/reinforce from the inside, and accept that you'll have to sand and fill the top of the intake (bad Hasegawa molds - both sides). You'll get a perfect side join that way with no need to fiddle with panel lines, filler etc. (Think I'll revive my draft "Building The Hasegawa 1/72 Phantom " guide and post a link).

Smudge: I have more 1/72 Phantom kits then I like to admit, and the Monogram (most recently Accurate Miniatures repop) ranks up there as one of my favorites.

The incorrect and ill fitting intake pieces are workable, but eradicating the top fuselage seam wipes out all the raised circular fuel cell access panels as well as the AAR door - a challenge to restore (but engraving or using a soft pencil to draw them back in works well). The detail on the Monogram F-4 is second to none (currently), and, as with some other Monogram kits, had Monogram/Revell used that kit as the basis of a new engraved model, it would still be the best 1/72 Phantom ever produced!

The Monogram kits are easy enough to find at swap meets and eBay - but prices have inched up to around $20+ in the last few years. I bought most of my spares for ~$5.

Gene K

P.S. I agree, Giorgio, about the happiness in having some Phantom experts come on board. Modellers always know much more about an airplane than the folks who flew them (and took the details for granted)!!!

[giemme]

That's a shame as I was really proud of that join!!!

Luckily no other damage has been reported

When you do the other side, line up the panel lines on the fuselage side with the intakes, and glue/reinforce from the inside, and accept that you'll have to sand and fill the top of the intake (bad Hasegawa molds - both sides). You'll get a perfect side join that way with no need to fiddle with panel lines, filler etc. (Think I'll revive my draft "Building The Hasegawa 1/72 Phantom " guide and post a link).

I remember that from my F-4J build And linking your draft handbook would be greatly appreciated, not only by me for sure.

P.S. I agree, Giorgio, about the happiness in having some Phantom experts come on board. Modellers always know much more about an airplane than the folks who flew them (and took the details for granted)!!!

Yes, but who knows Sandy Bay-Bee better than you do?

Ciao

[yankeemodeller]

Great thread! Look forward to seeing what you two can do!

PS> Oh, and if you had named that aircraft "War Eagle", I would be building it alongside yours!

Instead, I'll probably be doing a RF-4C as flown by the Alabama Air National Guard.

http://www.tinfeathers.com/Museum/Airports/VFW_4850/VFW_4850.htm

PPS> Giemme, that desk is way too clean, even between builds!

Hi, GAF, I am from Birmingham, Alabama, not England, and just curious where you're from. I used to watch the Phantoms at the airport all the time. I dare say though, " Roll Tide " is more appropriate.

[Jessica]

Gene K, on 03 Dec 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Modellers always know much more about an airplane than the folks who flew them (and took the details for granted)!!!

Well, we know how they looked (or were assumed to have looked). You drivers knew what they were for. There's an important distinction here

[Fritag]

.......... Modellers always know much more about an airplane than the folks who flew them (and took the details for granted)!!!

And probably didn't pay enough attention during the ground-school phase to begin with............

But - there's only one man in this thread who can give us a feel for what operating an F4 was like

[giemme]

Hi everybody;

Jessica, thanks for joining

Here's today's report; some preliminary work before joining front and back fuselage, starboard side. First off, filling the AAR door, because this is for the J version

Some liquid CA to do the job

Sanded using ETS, then a polishing stick

Dryfit of the tub

Hasegawa and Monogram side by side, studying how to fit MONO tub into HASE fuselage

Time to cut off some plastic! I used a 5 thou razor saw (Airwaves, I think)

I thought I was being clever by using a long blade - it turned out I wasn't, so I made the other cut using a much shorter one (still getting the hang on using them saws )

Now, a question for Gene: I haven't completely cut the back cockpit area you marked, because I was wondering how to merge HASE top fuselage spine (which is a separate piece) with MONO tub, see following pic:

I don't know how you normally do that, but what if I cut out the MONO part in the red circle (only the vertical section) and live the one circled in green as it this? It looks smoother to blend in, to me. What do you think?

I also managed to chop off quite some plastic, preparing for my side of the seamless intake; easier than I thought, using my Dremel and this chopping bit:

The vertical segment remaining on the front fuselage has to go:

The horizontal one broke off while chopping, so I had to glue it back with some CA; I prefer to keep it there, because it helps in aligning front with back fuselage

That's it for the day, comments welcome

Ciao

[Giorgio N]

That's a lot of surgery, hope all the bits will go back together !

The work on the cockpit reminds me of my attempt to shoehorn a Fujimi F-4K cockpit into a US version... personally I'd only cut the very top of the monogram part and see if this fit

[giemme]

That's a lot of surgery, hope all the bits will go back together !

Hopefully so!

... personally I'd only cut the very top of the monogram part and see if this fit

Seems the best option, but I'll wait for Gene to see if there's a different reason behind what he noted on the plastic.

Thanks!

Ciao

[GAF]

I've seen some interesting projects cobbling together F-4 parts from different kits. This one is as complex as they come. Good work!

yankeemodeller,

Yeah, I'm mostly from B'ham, and I well remember the F-4s coming in. Moved to Texas a few years ago for work, but family is still there.

I try to get back every so often so I can visit the Southern Museum of Flight and Homewood Toy and Hobby. IF there was a job

in the area, I would probably move back.

A couple of things about that RF-4C I posted a link to. It's one of two that I know of. One ended up in the Dayton, Ohio Air Force Museum,

the other in front of the VFW hall in Jasper. It's on Highway 78 if you want to drive out and take a look. I wonder how long it's going to be

there as it is open to the weather, and I noticed the canopy is open a crack so rain can seep in and insects. I wish they would at least put

her under shelter.

And this is one crazy build too, in 1/32nd scale. Let's just say that the detail on this one is going to be plentiful.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/162979.aspx

Gary

PS> If they had named the aircraft "Roll Tide" they would have had to paint it crimson!

[giemme]

And this is one crazy build too, in 1/32nd scale. Let's just say that the detail on this one is going to be plentiful.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/162979.aspx

Talk about detailing! Thanks for that link!

Ciao

[rob85]

Puts my rejoining of wings too shame..... But that's not hard

You are doing so fantastic work here giemme and its only the beginning, this is going to be something special

Rob

[Turbine_Man]

" ]Giemme..... Ummmm.... How do these fly? "

Apparently, it's called suck,blow,bang! At least that's what a tame sootie told me!!

Sorry Giemme, I,ll behave now..................maybe.

You need a little squeeze in there as well.. SuckSqueezeBangBlow....never been classed as tame though..

Amazing WIP with a fantastic human element..

[Gene K]

Dryfit of the tub ... I was wondering how to merge HASE top fuselage spine (which is a separate piece) with MONO tub,

Loving your build!!!

As for the tub - I just cut off the rounded rear portion of the Mono cockpit. The attached picture shows the tub test fitted in a Has F-4E ....

F-4E??????????? Yes, which has the nose replaced with one cut from the Mono kit. Fit is very good.

Why do that nose job?? Because the Has long nose Phantoms are plentiful and inexpensive, the B/J models are expensive, while the C/D models are rare (don’t understand why Hasegawa doesn't re-release them!!)

Giorgio N: I'll address the chopping for the intakes in my next post - it's really not that much or hard using the nifty Dremel cutting tool Giorgio highlighted.

Gene K

Edited December 4, 2015 by Gene K

[giemme]

As for the tub - I just cut off the rounded rear portion of the Mono cockpit. The attached picture shows the tub test fitted in a Has F-4E ....

Brilliant - I guessed right, then. But that leads to my next question, and I edited your picture to show what I mean:

You've cut also the area indicated with the green rectangle (I haven't, yet), but this way it looks like the whole tub is aligned a bit too far backwards. The dashed blue line indicates where the mounting hole for the canopy opening arm is located, on the original Hase kit, while the red line indicates where I should try and fit it with the MONO tub (same goes for the rear part of the canopy). So my question is: should I actually trim also that last part of the Hase cockpit? I guess I should take a picture with all the transparents dry fit in place to actually check the relative position and explain better

TIA

Ciao

[giemme]

Puts my rejoining of wings too shame..... But that's not hard

You are doing so fantastic work here giemme and its only the beginning, this is going to be something special

Thanks Rob! Most of the credit goes to Gene's guidance, anyway

Amazing WIP with a fantastic human element..

Agreed 100% about the human element! Thanks for joining!

Ciao

[Gene K]

... looks like the whole tub is aligned a bit too far backwards.

You're absolutely correct! Since I just wanted to show the cut, I took that picture of an old fuselage without checking for slippage (held in with Blu-Tack) . Below is the way it should look - got there by measuring the Momo fuselage and applying that to the Has sidewall as shown.

Sorry ...

Gene K

Edited December 4, 2015 by Gene K

[Gene K]

This one is as complex as they come.

You, yankeemodeller, and I comprise a "Bunch of Proud Rednecks", I suppose! Thanks for the lead on the RF - I'll check that one out on one of my trips to Huntsville to see the grandkids.

As for a complex build, I don't think so at this "stick-it-together" stage. The good part comes in when Giorgio starts his detailing and finishing. May have to convince him not to put live cartridges in those 1/72 ejection seats!

Gene K

[giemme]

Thanks Gene, very clear as usual.

As for a complex build, I don't think so at this "stick-it-together" stage. The good part comes in when Giorgio starts his detailing and finishing. May have to convince him not to put live cartridges in those 1/72 ejection seats!

:rofl: I won't venture into that, but I'm thinking of a way to reproduce the parachute cover on top of the seats, since it is quite a distinctive feature and I missed to do that in my F-4J build.

Side story, for you "Bunch of proud rednecks" - since the Alabama subject appeared a few times along the thread: my eldest daughter is 13, and uses to listen to things that barely qualify as "music". She sings and listen to that stuff all day long, and we (the wife and I, that is) don't loose an occasion to tell her how boring all of that is. Last night, while we (again, the wife and I) were hangin' out in the kitchen after dinner, she comes over and through her phone comes the intro of Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama"!! We stared at her and she says "What? What happens? What did I do wrong?" but in fact we were just witnessing a miracle "You're listening to proper music!! Now go, download the whole song and come back so that we can all listen to it!!" I said. Redemption might have started ...

Ciao

PS: Gene, I forgot to ask you one thing: did the backseater have a control stick on Sandy Bay-Bee? If so, the point where to drill the corresponding mounting hole is the one marked on the underside of MONO tub?

TIA

Edited December 4, 2015 by giemme

[Blogs On]

"You need a little squeeze in there as well.. SuckSqueezeBangBlow....never been classed as tame though.."

Oooops........ Sorry, I'm usually only allowed to play with the bits at the front where there's a nice view!

As for tame, most gentlemen of the sootie persuasion I've found to be jolly approachable so long as you don't break anything!!!

"Amazing WIP with a fantastic human element."

Couldn't agree more.

[Blogs On]

Flying start Giemme, I will be taking notes and hopefully absorbing the tips that you reveal.

As with Fritag's builds, it is the human experience that ads another dimension that grips and inspires us.

I have a strong feeling that this will be up there with the best.

[Gene K]

... did the backseater have a control stick on Sandy Bay-Bee?

Don't feed me too much ... I might chew off your arm, to wit:

Yes, all Air Force Phantoms had a stick in the back, as well as throttles. One of the reasons was that “back then (1966)”, aircraft assignments coming out of flight school were dependent on class standing. Fighters went first, so if you wanted one, you had your choice of a Phantom … or a Phantom (the top graduate in the class did get the lone F-106). BUT … the assignment was to the back seat, the rationale being that the airplane was too much to handle for a newly graduated pilot. So we were all a GIB (Guy In Back), quietly bemoaning our fate while looking to the day we’d move to the front.

Things got real tense after a couple of years when the AF started upgrading pilots from other airplanes into front seat of the Phantom. So, we ended up with the situation where pilots who had graduated lower in pilot training accumulated hours faster in a bomber/cargo airplane than did a GIB (10+ hour missions versus 1.5), and were put into the F-4 front seat. Of course there was grumbling when legacy pilot-GIBs had “one of those” bomber/cargo pilots in the front. To make matters worse, the Air Force then finally allowed pilots direct from flight training into the front seat … while there were still many pilot GIBs waiting in the back. Unfortunately a lot of good pilot-GIBs got fed up and left the service. For most of the rest, the price of a front seat was a tour in Viet Nam in the pit.

At any rate, my first GIB at Cam Rahn was a pilot, and after he rotated (one year tour), my second GIB was a navigator … who coincidentally ended up going to flight school to eventually fly Phantoms (I take credit for first teaching him how to fly).

Long story short – yes, stick in the back seat. It’s distinctly different shape, and is positioned as you said:

An aside: as an Instructor Pilot, you took all flight exams in the back seat – so instrument flying with minimal instruments, and landings from the back seat with reduced visibility were a little more challenging (fun) than from up front. However, when flying from the back, the stick felt about the same as in front - a very solid, responsive airplane.

Gene K

EDIT: I will be more concise in future posts ... I promise!

Edited December 4, 2015 by Gene K

[Gondor44]

Why do that nose job?? Because the Has long nose Phantoms are plentiful and inexpensive, the B/J models are expensive, while the C/D models are rare (don’t understand why Hasegawa doesn't re-release them!!)

Gene K

I don't understand why either. I see Hasegawa F-4EJ's, E's and J's all over the place as well as some B/N's.

Now with the B/N and J's you can make C's or D's with as they have nearly all the parts provided in the box.

Gondor

[Jessica]

I don't understand why either. I see Hasegawa F-4EJ's, E's and J's all over the place as well as some B/N's.

Now with the B/N and J's you can make C's or D's with as they have nearly all the parts provided in the box.

Gondor

You'd need a lot of work to make a C out of a B/N kit given the different wing. What you could do is make a very early F-110 which is kind of cool

[GAF]

You, yankeemodeller, and I comprise a "Bunch of Proud Rednecks", I suppose! Thanks for the lead on the RF - I'll check that one out on one of my trips to Huntsville to see the grandkids.

As for a complex build, I don't think so at this "stick-it-together" stage. The good part comes in when Giorgio starts his detailing and finishing. May have to convince him not to put live cartridges in those 1/72 ejection seats!

Gene K

Gene,

"Proud Redneck" is a badge of honor! I'll gladly answer to it. And on your way north, if you pass through Birmingham, you might want to visit the Southern Museum of Flight (if you have not already). It's located near the

airport, and though the neighborhood is not the best, it is well worth visiting. http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/

They have this:

I'm not sure what this thing is, but it sure looks like it burns kerosene!

And I don't care if the ejection seats have live cartridges, as long as the turbine blades turn and the radio works!

Great story about the GIBs! Isn't bureaucracy a wonderful thing?

Giemme,

Your daughter is growing up! You should be proud!

And I'm sorry for kind of derailing your thread with all this extraneous stuff. I'll try to keep it about Phantoms from now on... Okay, TRY...

I want to make sure this one is bookmarked for future reference.

Gary