1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash - COMPLETED!

[giemme]

Many moons ago I attended a seminar by Jef Verswyvel of KMC (then Black Box, True Detail, and now Squadron's Chief Modeler). In the seminar, Jef demonstrated how he detailed the masters for his cockpits : mixed up a small batch of Milliput; rolled thin snakes; anchored one end to the appropriate location in the cockpit; working from the anchor forward, used a stiff spit-dampened brush to prod the strand of Milliput into shape/position; followed up with a little more spit when he was satisfied with the position; let dry. Needless to say, very effective

Thanks Gene. I recently saw something similar on Youtube, but it was for seat belts; playing with milliput that way is really an art, I don't think I'm ready (will I ever be?) for that. As you say, the result is very effective. Time to go the bench now

Ciao

[giemme]

Gene, a few questions for you while I'm detailing the interiors:

- would the seat belts on the F-4C be the same as on an F-4J? I have some leftovers from my previous build that I'd like to use?

- what was the color of your helmets?

- I haven't done any search yet, but where do I find a good reference for your flying suits, again in terms of colors?

TIA

Ciao

[Spookytooth]

Those intakes look sweet Giemme, nice work coming along in the office too.

Have you though about using small bands of shrink tubing used in electronic?

Simon.

[Gene K]

- would the seat belts on the F-4C be the same as on an F-4J?

I don't know, but I would think so. I also don't know about the shoulder straps (don't compare the Eduard sets as their diagrams are wrong as concerns where the seat belts, etc attach).

- what was the color of your helmets?

While I was there, white with red visor covers - hadn't gone to camo tape yet.

- where do I find a good reference for your flying suits, again in terms of colors?

Here was my standard, for that time period, gear:

I suppose the best refs would be a Google search like this. Here's a Real Fighter Pilot!!!

Looks like Col Olds is wearing non-standard gloves. Also as opposed to the picture above, at Cam Rahn the knife was mainly worn on the leg or inside the right bottom flight suit pocket, with the gun on a hip holster (or on the crowded chest) ... as much as I can remember. Here's Major Roger Parrish, who later went on to lead the Thunderbirds (F-4).

Speaking of Thunderbirds, my first mission was on the wing of ex-Thunderbird Capt Chris Patterakis (F-100) - great pilot!.

Gene K

Edited December 13, 2015 by Gene K

[giemme]

Great references as always, Gene! Thanks!

Red visor covers ... that's unexpected. I thought they'd always been black. That means that when painting Jerry, I'll have to portrait his eyes and part of the nose, as the MONO figure has the cover down .... mmmhh, that's going to be tricky ....

Ciao

[Gene K]

Red visor covers ... that's unexpected. I thought they'd always been black.

In those old helmets, the visor cover was attached to the helmet - the dark tinted visor (think sunglasses) slid under that cover when "retracted". You can see the knob that's used to slide the visor "up and down" here. That knob is twisted to lock the position of the visor.

Gene

Edited December 13, 2015 by Gene K

[giemme]

Ok, I got that wrong when reading your first post - the actual visor can then be painted then black

Thanks again

Ciao

Edited December 13, 2015 by giemme

[Duncan B]

Impressive work so far, the seamless intakes are pure genius.

Duncan B

[Cookenbacher]

It's great hearing all this stuff from you Gene, I can't get enough.

What is your Phantom carrying on the inner wing pylons in the first pic? Are those chaff dispensers?

[giemme]

Those intakes look sweet Giemme, nice work coming along in the office too.

Have you though about using small bands of shrink tubing used in electronic?

Simon.

Cheers Simon, thanks! About the shrinking tubing: thanks for the tip, I was in fact wondering, while doing all the cabling in the tub, if anything like that existed. I do have some of that for regular electric cables at work, but didn't know there also were very small sizes. I'll have a look for that

Impressive work so far, the seamless intakes are pure genius.

Duncan B

Thanks Duncan, and welcome on board! Great to have a phormer Phantom phixer here I agree 100% about the intakes (I can say that, since they're not my idea - Gene's the genius here)

It's great hearing all this stuff from you Gene, I can't get enough.

Me too! And hopefully we'll get more along the thread

Later for WE progress report

Ciao

[Biggles87]

The colour of the actual flying suit looks similar to the blue/grey of the standard RAF issue of the 70s before they went green.

Your attention to detail, as usual, is very thorough.

Impatiently waiting for more photos

John

[giemme]

Here's WE progress report, but first I want to once more thank Gene for the great stories, insights and references he's continuously providing along this thread. BTW, Gene: did you ever meet Col. Olds during your Vietnam tour?

Back to the model; I ketp working on detailing the tub and the interiors, and as I said in an earlier post, this is going to take some time. More cabling behind the backseater:

and a dryfit to check for cable connection points:

Now I have to figure out a way to actually reproduce those connection points, once everything will be in place ...

Backseat IP: started adding some cables here too. I used a micro drill to make holes on the back part of the instruments, and glued in some various diameter copper wires, using CA

IP glued in place:

this will make for a tricky paint job, but I felt like adding it later, with all the cabling involved, would not have been as effective.

I then bent the wires and put them in place (and I did check for clearance with the canopy opening arm - no pictures, though):

Made a start on sidewall, as well - actually only starboard side:

For this, I used some PE leftovers from my previous F-4J build, and also some small cutouts from the usual beer can. On the latters, to reproduce the switches I used a pointy scriber, pushing from the backside. The top switches row was glued on a Styrene stripe (15 thou), to help positioning and giving that "switch box" appearance. It was refined using some PPP, to close the gaps

I've also scratch built the canopy locking mechanism (well, only starboard side pilot's one, for the moment), and added two more PE bits from the Airwaves set.

From the pictures I have, and from this excellent virtual tour view , it looks like that this mechanism isn't there - or isn't visible - on backseater's starboard side. Gene, any memories about that?

And out of curiosity: what are all those dozens and dozens of switches for, on GBI starboard side?

TIA

Any comments welcome

Ciao

[Duncan B]

It must be 30 years since I last sat in a Phantom cockpit but I swear I could smell that unique smell that those 'pits have when I looked at that walk around .

Duncan B

[giemme]

The colour of the actual flying suit looks similar to the blue/grey of the standard RAF issue of the 70s before they went green.

Thanks John! Flying suit looks indeed some sort of blue/grey, with the anti-g suit being some sort of grey. I'll eyeball those colors, if I can't find some sort of specific indications (haven't started searching, yet)

It must be 30 years since I last sat in a Phantom cockpit but I swear I could smell that unique smell that those 'pits have when I looked at that walk around .

Amazing, isn't it? There's also the front cockpit virtual tour on the same website.

Ciao

[PlaStix]

Hi giemme. Just been catching up with your build and I have to say:

As always I'm very, very impressed with what you are doing. Those wires are amazing and should look fantastic in place.

Your thread with Gene's input is a joy to follow.

Kind regards,

Stix

[Gene K]

... what are all those dozens and dozens of switches for, on GBI starboard side?

That's a large circuit breaker panel. The most important one was that to disconnect the boom while air refueling - I always had my fingers around that one "just in case" the situation required letting go of the boom, as in case of the front seater's or boomer's disconnect not working. You can see in air refueling pictures that most GIBs fully lowered their seats while cranking their heads up to see the position of the boom, helping the front seater by telling him the position of the boom relative to the boom housing. The ideal position was to have the circle in the green area positioned precisely where the boom slides out of the housing.

Gene K

Edited December 14, 2015 by Gene K

[Jessica]

American Flight suits of that era were sage green, but they lightened up considerably with use, and of course the G-suits and vests changed colour differently.

All those little tiny circular switches in the rear cockpit are the circuit breakers.

[giemme]

Hi giemme. Just been catching up with your build and I have to say:

As always I'm very, very impressed with what you are doing. Those wires are amazing and should look fantastic in place.

Your thread with Gene's input is a joy to follow.

Kind regards,

Stix

Cheers Stix, thanks Hopefully after a coat of primer the cockpit will look less like a patchwork, but there's still more to do

That's a large circuit breaker panel. The most important one was that to disconnect the boom while air refueling - I always had my fingers around that one "just in case" the situation required letting go of the boom...

Thanks Gene! Sounds like air refueling was (is?) always a tricky situation Do you know which was the reason behind having the air refueling door on the top spine for USAF Phantoms, as oppose to the side one of the Navy aircrafts?

American Flight suits of that era were sage green, but they lightened up considerably with use, and of course the G-suits and vests changed colour differently.

All those little tiny circular switches in the rear cockpit are the circuit breakers.

Thanks Jessica! Looking at Gene's pictures, there's a huge difference in discoloring between them

Ciao

[Gene K]

On 12/13/2015 at 4:57 PM, Cookenbacher said:

What is your Phantom carrying on the inner wing pylons in the first pic? Are those chaff dispensers?

That was a very out-of-the-ordinary mission carrying SUU-13 dispensers loaded with "special smoke". Tasking was to dissuade bad guys who were moving towards a hastily evacuated Special Forces camp where lots of equipment was left behind. Unfortunately, strong winds dispersed the smoke too rapidly, so we ended up going back a couple of days later to destroy the equipment.

The picture below is of my wingman's (my roommate) airplane during the post mission bomb check on the way home to Cam Rahn. We both had canisters that didn't eject from the dispensers, so we jettisoned the dispensers in the sea. End of War Story.

Notice that particular airplane had a "non-standard" radome that housed a rear facing camera. Most at Cam Rahn had the smooth chin.

Back to Giorgio's marvelous build -

Gene K

Edited July 3, 2017 by Gene K

[Gene K]

Sounds like air refueling was (is?) always a tricky situation

Challenging and very satisfying!! SANDY BAY-BEE was unique (fun) in that whenever the radio was keyed, the rudder would deflect slightly to the left (that was never figured out the year I was there) ... not a big factor since most of our air refuelings were done radio out.

Do you know which was the reason behind having the air refueling door on the top spine for USAF Phantoms, as oppose to the side one of the Navy aircrafts?

Beyond my pay grade, but good summary here.

Gene K

[Cookenbacher]

This is all fascinating Gene, thanks for sharing. I'd never heard of a 'smoke' mission before.

Amazing cockpit detail Giemme.

[baldwin8]

Seeing that the theme of this build is 60's CRB Phantom. May I ask Gene, were the solid intake covers in use during your time at CRB. I never seen them in any shots, maybe it came about more in the 1970's?

As well, did you guys use your parabrake on landings?

Giemme, your build has inspired me to buy the Academy 48th F-4C. Need some more research time. I had a membership some years back with the F-4 Phantom Society which I think still exists.

[GAF]

Great work so far, Giemme! Dressing the girl up right.

As for those "smoke" cannisters, here's a nice list.

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/asetds/u-s.html

Of course, it might not have been just smoke. Smoke is rarely a deterent.

Gary

[Jessica]

giemme, on 14 Dec 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

Cheers

Thanks Jessica! Looking at Gene's pictures, there's a huge difference in discoloring between them

Ciao

Which means that you can paint them however you like, secure in the knowledge that nobody can ever prove you're wrong

[Gene K]

... were the solid intake covers in use during your time at CRB.

I don't remember seeing any there.

... did you guys use your parabrake on landings?

Yes, standard procedure to use the chute. Exceptions for me were: several hook landing at a Marine base to get refueled - to save the chute for landing back home; hook landing at a USAF base to pick up and lead two F-100s to the Philippines; and hook landing on the alternate PSP runway in monsoon rain at night to avoid hydroplaning :shutup:

... the F-4 Phantom Society which I think still exists.

It still exists - I just renewed my membership. Smoke Trails aren't published as often/consistently, and are digital only now.

Gene K

Edited December 14, 2015 by Gene K