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A pair of Airfix Hawks in 1/72 - now with added 3D printing


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On 1/7/2022 at 2:22 PM, Fritag said:

 I'd like to refine the shape, dimensions and details from plans if possible though.

 

After a search through my own ref material I've come across some more stuff

 

 

From the Warpaint Buccaneer book

lIHCTw1.jpg

I've found this on the scale drawings, dragged the scale onto the drawing before uploading

 

xFW9baS.jpg

Click here for super high res 1200 dpi scan

 

Also a couple more pictures from that photo sortie with XX191 from this extract publication from Air International.

m6YTm1V.jpg

 

ajTFZYN.jpg

 

sZD78Kv.jpg

 

Q29kuEI.jpg

 

8jmyZ60.jpg

 

Hope these are of some use

 

CT

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On 1/7/2022 at 2:22 PM, Fritag said:

 I'd like to refine the shape, dimensions and details from plans if possible though.

 

No luck from me re plans, but looks like @Cheshiretaurus has come to the rescue. 

 

See pm for other bits that might help.

 

Terry

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12 hours ago, Cheshiretaurus said:

After a search through my own ref material I've come across some more stuff

 

48 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

See pm for other bits that might help.

 

Many thanks Mark, Terry - that is brilliant material and absolutely what I needed!

 

It's pretty clear that as well as adding surface detail I also need to refine the shape - especially of the tail - somewhat.  I'll also now be able to dimension it with more confidence.

 

I've been quiet on the forum since Christmas as plastic progress (slow at the best of times) has been put to one side as I try to learn enough Fusion 360 to feel confident it's worth getting a 3D printer.

 

Well' I'm just about there now 

 

I'm getting a bit more sophisticated with my understanding how to do more complex shapes and add surface details on different planes/surfaces etc.  And I've got the pylon to the point where I reckon it'd be worth trying to print it.

 

9E6D2A84-B197-4F5E-B741-995F826366C8

 

Of course I'll then have to learn to use Chitubox and also learn how to design with the printer attributes/capabilities in mind!

 

I'm going to go back and read the earlier sections of Tony's @TheBaron thread for more hints and tips - and a big thanks to Alan @hendie for all his advice.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fritag
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2 hours ago, Fritag said:

And I've got the pylon to the point where I reckon it'd be worth trying to print it.

 

.... and I reckon you are right! That pylon looks superb. You are clearly becoming a natural at this 3D malarky. My learning curve on this stuff is somewhat steeper!

 

Terry

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Looking really smart Steve. :thumbsup2:

8 hours ago, Fritag said:

And I've got the pylon to the point where I reckon it'd be worth trying to print it.

Excellent idea. Wishing you the very best of first prints! (It's a great feeling)🤝

 

Being able to compare a printed output with the original design up on the screen is a truly excellent way to develop the necessary instincts about your own work (in terms of what will print down to a certain level of detail). Although I've gotten features down to about 0.02mm to be visible, the combined variables of shape, thickness, orientation all heavily influence reproducibility on a case-by-case basis. It's a continually varying process with no single magic formula for every occasion Steve.

 

Avoid the simpleton-bros of Yewtewb who hyperventilate about their mastery of technique by printing a cube or some ghastly figurine of Limpwang the Disappointingly Endowed.

 

Such individuals know nothing of printing aircraft and should be driven from town by men with dogs.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry for the radio silence on the ‘awks.

 

Not an indication of lost interest or mojo - I’m indirectly moving the build forward by committing hobby time to getting better with Fusion 360; and actually I’m gaining enthusiasm as I go :D

 

I’m not quite ready to buy the printer yet.  I need to decide (I think) between the Mars 2 and 3.

 

But just to prove I’m still doing summat that may end up being productive for the build…

 

Massive thanks to @Terry1954 for PM’ing me some photos of CBLS 100, that I’ve put to use in Fusion:

 

BC268CA2-79F4-4DFF-A9A3-5BF80022293F

 

 

And produced (what I hope will be) an acceptable CBLS:

 

A62873CE-1152-4C59-89E0-8DEAD59CACEE

 

 

Everything still to learn about what will and won’t print etc, esp. at 1/72 scale - but that’s a pleasure for another (several) day(s).

 

If I eventually manage to print a CBLS/Pylon combo along these lines I’ll be well chuffed.

 

 

6B5C3B81-71E7-41C9-B695-3B4EB9E8DA44

 

Bit more silence before then I’m afraid…

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fritag
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7 hours ago, Fritag said:

Massive thanks to @Terry1954 for PM’ing me some photos of CBLS 100, that I’ve put to use in Fusion:

 

My pleasure, and a most impressive CAD result there Steve. I would say you have well and truly nailed that CBLS. It looks fantastic.

 

I'm (very slowly) learning Fusion myself, as I think it will help on one of the gliders I'm (very slowly building). I've just managed to get some plans loaded into fusion similar to the way you have overlaid the CBU picture, to then help refine the shape. I'm considering using it to help make a better wing for the Prefect.

 

It is a most impressive bit of software, but much to learn still.

 

Can't help at all on any decision between Mars 2 or 3, except 3 sounds better, cos its a higher number ........... 🤔 I'm sure our resident experts will have views?

 

Terry

 

 

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Nailed that design expertly Steve - that part has great visual presence.

 

Any thoughts on the best way round to orient for supports/printing?

 

In terms of printed detail the 0.015mm difference in layer height between the Mars 2 & 3 seems to be the big difference that a chap is paying for in price; my pen'orth would be that this doesn't automatically translate into a massive difference in print quality though, influenced as it is by the nature and scale of the shape(s) involved as well. I'm personally  in no rush to upgrade from the Mars 2 (and indeed still use the original Mars regularly) so am unlikely to invest in further kit until layer heights jump to 0.02mm or lower at an affordable price.

 

Caveat: only have experience printing Fleet Air Arm subjects - not sure if RAF stuff prints differently...

 

Quote

Bit more silence before then I’m afraid…

Oh Lord, don't say he's entering a monastery.

This build really will take an eternity... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2016!  That was the last time I visited this thread…..  I am now on page 74 catching up.  I will not deny that I was surprised to find the thread still active Fritag.

Anyway, over on Unofficial Airfix Modelling Forum they are having a BAe Hawk ‘Group Build’ and I have taken the liberty of providing a link to your exemplary builds to help inspire some of the members.  I am going to confess that, whilst I might see how you have undertaken some detailing, I will be pretty much building OOB with my Revell Hawks.  
My builds will be:

XX223, the first Hawk I flew 18th Feb 1982 (Refresher course on FJ crossover)

and

XX314 the aircraft in which I flew my final sortie 1 Sep 2005 (208 Sqn) some 4,500 hour on type later.

 

If time permits I have 2 Airfix kits for a 1983 Chivenor Hawk (Tac Weapons refresher) and a 1990 Blue/White/Red CFS Hawk Sqn aircraft (‘waterfront tour’).

 

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On 02/02/2022 at 20:00, TheBaron said:

Caveat: only have experience printing Fleet Air Arm subjects - not sure if RAF stuff prints differently...

 

We really should have Ced back by now, but.

 

HO BLOODY HO...  :)  :)  :)

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4 hours ago, TeeELL said:

 I will not deny that I was surprised to find the thread still active Fritag

 

Well Tony, active may be considered a slightly too - well - active a word to describe it :blush:  an arguably more pertinent phrase might be 'not entirely inactive' :whistle:  Although this whole Fusion 360, whilst a (yet another) diversion is seriously reawakening my enthusiasm to finally get the old girls finished.... Although not by the time your group build finished at the end of March :blush: not least cos I'm off skiing to Chamonix for a week next Friday..... and then in March I've simply got to go away for a week's cycling in Norfolk cos it's Mrs F's birthday... But then!  Once I've bought the bloomin printer (obvs.) :D

 

4 hours ago, TeeELL said:

My builds will be:

XX223, the first Hawk I flew 18th Feb 1982 (Refresher course on FJ crossover)

and

XX314 the aircraft in which I flew my final sortie 1 Sep 2005 (208 Sqn) some 4,500 hour on type later.

 

If time permits I have 2 Airfix kits for a 1983 Chivenor Hawk (Tac Weapons refresher) and a 1990 Blue/White/Red CFS Hawk Sqn aircraft (‘waterfront tour’).

 

 

I saw that you're thinking of doing XX256 if you get to the 63sqn Chivenor Hawk.  I have that one in my log book from 63sqn about a year after you.  The legendary Tom Lecky-Thompson did his best to teach me 2 v 1 ACM in it :D  Shan't try and boast about what success he might have had in front of a Phantom man tho' :blush:

 

Indeed I'm now more than slightly nervous that I might have said some absolute bo**cks about the Hawk in front of a man with an almost unimaginable 4500 hrs on type.  What am I saying 'might' for?  I almost certainly have! :rofl2:

 

I'm definitely gonna pop over to the Group Build from time to time.  

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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On 2/3/2022 at 8:17 PM, geedubelyer said:

Hmmm..... significantly better than the ones I scratch built out of a couple of 1000lbers for my 1/72nd scale Airfix Jag as a yoof 🤭

Nice one Steve. 

 

Ah Guy, but there's something quite apposite about using a 1,000lber to fake a CBLS - when the purpose of the CBLS was to fake a 1,000lber. Satisfying even :D

 

Adventurous stuff for a yoof - but clearly a yoof with admirable taste in aircraft.  Just saying.

 

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On 2/2/2022 at 8:00 PM, TheBaron said:

Oh Lord, don't say he's entering a monastery.

This build really will take an eternity...

 

Just re-read 'The Name of the Rose' for the umpteenth time; you ain't getting me near any monastery I'll tell you that for nowt.

 

On 2/2/2022 at 8:00 PM, TheBaron said:

In terms of printed detail the 0.015mm difference in layer height between the Mars 2 & 3 seems to be the big difference that a chap is paying for in price; my pen'orth would be that this doesn't automatically translate into a massive difference in print quality though, influenced as it is by the nature and scale of the shape(s) involved as well. I'm personally  in no rush to upgrade from the Mars 2 (and indeed still use the original Mars regularly) so am unlikely to invest in further kit until layer heights jump to 0.02mm or lower at an affordable price.

 

I'm sure your right that a slight improvement in resolution on one axis might not make a massive difference, although I'd guess that any improvement is a welcome thing.  There again it's also clear from your work and Alan's that the 2 more than does the job that I'd want it to.  My initial reticence actually stems more from the fact that seem reviews seem to question the build quality of the 3 versus the 2.

 

On 2/2/2022 at 8:00 PM, TheBaron said:

Any thoughts on the best way round to orient for supports/printing?

 

None.  I am as yet a thought free zone on such matters.  More learning to be done :D

Edited by Fritag
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21 hours ago, Fritag said:

Just re-read 'The Name of the Rose' for the umpteenth time; you ain't getting me near any monastery I'll tell you that for nowt.

 

Eco rules. Ever try Foucault's Pendulum or The Island of the Day Before?

 

Cheers,

Bill

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Just over a month between posts?  Not bad for me :whistle:

 

So I had to go skiing again (obvs.) and then had real life work type stuff to do (obvs.) and then I had to work up to taking the plunge and get a new toy necessary piece of hobby equipment:

 

0B62AA7F-37C9-4AD4-9B46-9A506A98E51C

 

And then I had to learn to use Chitubox - and discovered in the process that I needed to get a computer mouse cos chitubox and a mac trackpad don't really get on very well (and found that Fusion was a lot easier with a mouse too).

 

And then I rushed out a test print:

 

7A642173-19EE-42E0-AAF8-C3917CB84BB7

 

And the old hands at 3D printing will see immediately that I cared little knew little about optimising orientation for printing.  I also cared little knew little at this stage about such matters as lifting speeds, waiting time modes and best practice with supports.

 

I was still quite pleased with the results tho' :D

 

0672B984-815B-4FE9-A7C7-77B4A6458274

 

0F4CDEDC-4D6F-4325-8803-B2958768DBA7

 

Armed with a modest amount of new knowledge I went back to Fusion and modified the designs.  It's all very well producing your best effort at a CAD model but you've got to bear in mind the practical implications of the scale your working in.  So I simplified some features and exaggerated others thus:

 

0CF56108-6315-4B32-BD0F-71774DA6910A

 

47F03B66-BE94-4272-87EA-0639B7EB6E9E

 

The net result could be said to be less refined CAD designs but hopefully more effective prints.

 

I also applied some further modest new knowledge in the next print viz model orientation, reduced lift speeds and I also reduced the layer height from 0.050 to 0.025.  all of which contributed to a lot longer print time but (I hope you'll agree) a more pleasing (and useable) output thus:

 

Overview:

 

74B28239-D497-4F90-89CB-B201C40EA64F

 

Pylon:

 

683BD054-DE31-434A-993D-BF44940950FD

 

59DF703F-EFC1-415D-A052-54820DE0F60E

 

And by some quirk of fate the upper contours perfectly matched the undersurface curve of the wing without need for re-drawing/re-printing...

 

4496F41C-1E61-4603-AF7D-90153FDAC411

 

Oh and just for comparison - here's my effort compared with (IIRC) one from an Airfix kit:

 

CAC2CAC9-73ED-4A21-89B6-E2753B1D1419

 

Long tailed CBLS 100:

 

E79E6319-139C-4B81-9139-0CBEABC0585F

 

760A5430-6419-4A63-9EA5-F8D0001DBACF

 

Together:

 

C434F474-0B26-4E99-AA43-6B430238AAA2

 

And I had to see how they would look together in-situ didn't I?

 

C4A2A14D-670D-4054-B334-F88598C904E0

 

A150BDBE-76F1-4164-9A81-7577D445AC09

 

Modestly pleased with them.  OK rather pleased with them.  OK very happy with them :D  Which probably explains why I've bored you with so many photos of them.(Sorry - I'll become less excitable about this 3d CAD/Printing stuff in future when I've done a bit more) :blush:

 

I'm also tempted to revisit the whole hawk canopy complex and have started roughing out a design with a view to printing off a new master to vac form from; and possibly do something in the framing department.  Thoughts and work in progress:

 

1DF0F406-D158-4236-B497-B51190E24BE9

 

Windscreen not bad out of the box - bit of tweaking to be done:

 

AA962401-37C3-42BA-BB55-1918CF4A30B7

 

Canopy basic look not bad but I seem to have got my measurements wrong (or rather trusted too much to undoubtedly distorted photos):

 

97A3528F-E56E-4CCC-80C3-A42AB020187C

 

Early and crude concept check.

 

0C82D1C7-EDA1-4FD5-9B50-027114574459

 

And that's where matters stand as of today.

 

I've been completely absent from the forum for a month or so; so I'd better find some time today to catch up on my favourites.

 

As a proper bonus - I'll now be able to reread Tony @TheBaron's Vixen thread and Alan @hendie's Wapati and other threads and this time understand what they're talking about :D

 

 

Edited by Fritag
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  • Fritag changed the title to A pair of Airfix Hawks in 1/72 - now with added 3D printing

Well blow me down, right proper progress there Steve and some tremendous 3D work! You seem to have got the hang of this 3D malarky.

 

I took some pics of the Hawk pylons from the real thing at the BDAC museum at the weekend, but looks like you don't need them! If you click on the below link into my Flickr feed, you'll see a few more!

 

IMG20220306115334

 

Terry

 

aka Most impressed of south Dorset.

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Just wondering how many different modelling tips/techniques/tools have been covered during the lifespan of this thread…? Must be hundreds… 

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