A pair of Airfix Hawks in 1/72. Finished.

[Fritag]

On 9/8/2021 at 5:18 PM, Fritag said:

And Alan @hendie has just run some printer test prints which I have to say look terribly promising.  The history behind that can also been seen on page 13 of the Spittie thread and  it's of no surprise that Bill @perdu plays a prominent role 

 

 

On 9/10/2021 at 3:08 PM, perdu said:

'The early results are in.'

 

On 9/10/2021 at 3:39 PM, Terry1954 said:

Can't wait. 

 

It is somehow in keeping with the dilatory nature of this thread that the next active modelling done on the hawks was done by some else!

 

But if you're gonna have someone else do some active modelling on your build well who would you choose?  It's a rhetorical question ain't it because high up on anybody's list would be Alan  @hendie.  Save of course that your own work is likely to suffer by comparison 

 

But putting that ungracious thought to one side  I got an eagerly awaited parcel from across the pond t'other day and inside it were Alan's test printed MDCs for me to play with.....Printed in a few thickness (0.2-0.3mm) and including for my practise the minority of prints that (unsurprisingly at these resolutions) failed:

 

 

Close up of a couple showing different thickness.  These things are incredibly impressive but also (scarily) delicate.

 

 

Whatever CAD magic Alan used to copy the shape and size from posted photos of my etch efforts the results are pretty much spot on and seeing as the outlines I produced for etching were themselves a best estimate based on photos etc. any small differences are pretty much irrelevant.

 

 

Handling printed resin is a new and unknown discipline to me.  And did I say that these things are delicate?  So it seemed a good idea to have a proof of concept play (nothing to do with being like a kid on christmas morning with a new toy you understand )

 

Ok so this is me making it up as I go along.  And bear in mind that I've not selected the best (i.e. neatest and most regular) of the prints for this practice.  Believe me some of them are beautifully neat and regular.

 

Carefully - and I mean carefully (did I say these things are delicate?) separated an MDC from the supports and sanded both sides on fine (like 1500-2500 grit) wet and dry. There are the residual stubs to try and remove/sand off (tricky) and both sides benefit from a gentle sanding/clean up.

 

 

Immediate learning points (1) a need to hold the entirety of the MDC in contact with the wet and dry all the time with a finger to keep structural integrity and (2) don't wet the surface as it causes the MDC to 'catch' and risk pulling apart.

 

Crudely (for this test) sandwiched the MDCs between a resin buck and spare vac formed canopy to make the me conform to shape.  Then gave them a few minutes under a UV light to see if that helped them 'cure' and hold shape (Dunno whether that was a good concept - hoping Alan and/or Tony will tell me later )

 

 

The immediate learning point here was that it would be better to do the front and rear MDCs seperately for this.  But hey - this is just proof of concept (and I was impatient).

 

It did seem to work in that the MDCs did adopt and keep a conformal shape. 

 

And voila:

 

 

 

 

 

They're even the correct colour without need to paint em.....

 

Immediate learning point here is that given how delicate the MDCs are (have I mentioned that?) they deform/pull out of shape very (very) easily and it will be a challenge  to ensure they keep the correct profile (but I'm sure doable).

 

So putting any irregularity in profile due to this being just a proof of concept test to one side for the moment - and bearing in mind that this is just a quick, crude test and that I made sure not use one of the best (i.e neatest) of Alan's prints - how promising is that!

 

Thanks mate!

 

I'm particularly pleased with how good they could look from the inside of the canopy as I plan to pose both canopies open.

 

Several matters yet to sort out of course; not least:

 

(1) How best to handle the MDC (did I say they were delicate?)  One thought I've had is to put a few strips of masking tape across the MDC before separating it from the supports, viz:

 

 

To give a bit of support to the structure during clean-up and maybe even positioning/conforming to shape.  Haven't tested the merits of this yet.

 

(2) Which of the thicker or thinner MDCs look better and whether it's practicable to try and use the thinner ones.

 

(3) How best to fix them in place - to an extent this depends on how well they conform/hold their shape to the inside of the canopy.

 

And more challenges will no doubt arise.

 

Anyroadup.  Concept proven it seems to me.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Fritag
Typo

[Cheshiretaurus]

29 minutes ago, Fritag said:

(1) How best to handle the MDC (did I say they were delicate?)  One thought I've had is to put a few strips of masking tape across the MDC before separating it from the supports, viz:

 

To give a bit of support to the structure during clean-up and maybe even positioning/conforming to shape.  Haven't tested the merits of this yet.

 

(2) Which of the thicker or thinner MDCs look better and whether it's practicable to try and use the thinner ones.

 

(3) How best to fix them in place - to an extent this depends on how well they conform/hold their shape to the inside of the canopy.

 

 

Those MDCs look fantastic, Alan has done an excellent job and an excellent job getting them to print horizontally from the supports. I wonder what settings & resin he used?

 

1 From my own experience of 3D printing I've found some Dspiae single blade nippers are ideal for this as they give little to no force or shock to the part while cutting. just an easy smooth clean cut.

 

2 Thinner will always look better and more realistic I think.

 

3 My thoughts are with UV cure glue on this.

 

For shaping I'm thinking maybe try hot water over a cast resin buck of the canopy. 

 

CT

[hendie]

19 minutes ago, Cheshiretaurus said:

I wonder what settings & resin he used?

 

Standard Elegoo grey resin at 0.01mm layer thickness with a 7 second cure time.

With these particular parts it's not so much about the settings but getting the supports in the right place.  I tried to position them anywhere there was a direction change as that angle change was more likely to put stress on the part as it was pulled from the FEP. 

No need for hot water as these parts haven't been fully cured yet.

Steve's tape method for support removal is a good one (must remember that), as is the canopy sandwich for curing them into the correct shape.

Uve glue, cyano, and Klear are all good options for fixing in place. Maybe a strategic dot of cyano at the ends, and Klear along the lengths?  If they hold their shape well enough perhaps they only need glued at opposite ends?

Not sure how well they would behave long term with that though.

 

Great photos Steve, and some good ideas on the support removal and curing options.

 

You made it sound like I actually knew what I was doing and there was some skill involved when really it was just a few mouse clicks and pushing a button or two

[Fritag]

 

34 minutes ago, hendie said:

Steve's tape method for support removal is a good one (must remember that), as is the canopy sandwich for curing them into the correct shape.

 

Good.  You comfort me.

 

Just tried it out and it seems to work.

 

Made separating it from the supports less stressful (I have nippers - albeit but not as good quality as CT's)

 

 

It definitely helped support the part during clean-up (2000 grit):

 

 

And got the desired results.  Residual support stubs basically gone:

 

 

 

Just needs a polish-up now on some finer grit.

 

Of course I've now got to get the Tamiya tape off and some point without pulling it apart!

 

(but I did reduce the tack first and I did successfully remove some practice tape earlier).

 

Now I must get back to some proper work..... 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Fritag
Typo

[giemme]

Boy, I love this stuff! KUDOS to Alan @hendie and well done to Steven @Fritag     

 

Ciao

[Terry1954]

Wow, the printed MDC really does look fantastic. It's really quite amazing what can be 3D printed.  Immense praise of course to Alan @hendie for producing these miniature masterpieces and impressive work to separate them from the supports Steve!

 

A question for Alan - could these be printed straight onto the flat plate of the printer without supports? Not being familiar with exactly how they get "squirted" onto the plate, I just wondered if that were possible? Maybe they are too delicate a size to then remove?

 

I think I'm going to have to look at this printing lark more seriously!

 

Terry

[hendie]

53 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

A question for Alan - could these be printed straight onto the flat plate of the printer without supports? Not being familiar with exactly how they get "squirted" onto the plate, I just wondered if that were possible? Maybe they are too delicate a size to then remove?

 

Terry, in theory, yes they can.  I tried that when printing the window rubbers for my Whirlwind.  However, I found that everything printed flat - with no real profile. Even when I changed the height of the parts I still got the same result.

I know it's probably something to do with my settings and I'm sure other folks can do it.  There would be a real danger of destroying the parts while attempting to remove them from the build plate though.

 

Hey, we gotta give Steve something to do, right?

 

 

[Martian]

Amazing stuff! Kudos to both Fritag and Hendie.

 

Impressed of Mars 👽

[perdu]

I wonder how the MDC went?

[Fritag]

38 minutes ago, perdu said:

I wonder how the MDC went?

 

Went? Past tense?  What did I miss?

 

When I‘ve finished wrestling with the bl**dy Spitfire transparencies (which I’m busy making a dog’s breakfast of)… and recuperated for a week in the North of Scotland  - and then painted the bl**dy Spitfire - I promise I’ll get straight on with it.  Promise.

[Martian]

15 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

Went? Past tense?  What did I miss?

 

When I‘ve finished wrestling with the bl**dy Spitfire transparencies (which I’m busy making a dog’s breakfast of)… and recuperated for a week in the North of Scotland  - and then painted the bl**dy Spitfire - I promise I’ll get straight on with it.  Promise.

I wonder just how aerodynamic pigs are? Are they like the bumble bee that, ignorant of the laws of aerodynamics, flies because it doesn't know how not to? 🐝 I ask because I fancy I saw one flying past the Martian Cave window just now; a pig that is. Looked like a Gloucester Old Spot to me. 

 

Pessimistic of Mars 👽

[perdu]

I once had a few days R&R in Gloucestershire, stayed across the road from the Old Spot which was a very nice pub on the edge of a certain princess's estate.

 

Great pub and handy for places like Kemble.

 

It didn't fly.

 

Just saying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And keeping a memory of a once fabulous build thread, declining into someone's dreams of retiring to Scotland, alive...

[Edge]

Wonderful half hour spent catching up on this great build. Reading the comments, it’s easy to imagine a group of mates sitting together and sharing skills, knowledge & techniques openly. Alternatively it’s the rowdy bunch propping up the lounge bar, polishing off the KP nuts to expose the interesting image on the card!
 

The Hawk evokes more than a little nostalgia here, as my family had a holiday home in mid Wales and both brightly coloured Hawks & camouflaged ones were a daily sight (Monday to Friday of course). I always used to stop whatever it was I was doing to catch a glimpse of whatever was flying over as my dad would ask whether it was a-nawk disturbing the peace. Happy times indeed.

 

Thanks everyone 

 

[81-er]

As someone new to the Hawk thread (though having seen it mentioned in almost mythical tones elsewhere) I fully appreciated the summary saving me 138 pages of reading. That’s an impressive amount of work you’ve done so far, definitely pulling up a seat for the next 140 pages 

 

James

[Brandy]

2 hours ago, 81-er said:

As someone new to the Hawk thread (though having seen it mentioned in almost mythical tones elsewhere) I fully appreciated the summary saving me 138 pages of reading. That’s an impressive amount of work you’ve done so far, definitely pulling up a seat for the next 140 pages 

 

James

You may need a good supply of food and drink to keep you alive while waiting....

 

Ian

[Fritag]

1 hour ago, Brandy said:

You may need a good supply of food and drink to keep you alive while waiting..

 

Now on the basis of what flimsy evidence can you be so cynical Ian?  

 

Bench cleared of Spittie.

 

Weighed up the mechanics of moving the Hawks from the shelf to the bench.

 

Have to say tho’.  They look awful small after a few months of mucking about at 1/48 scale 

[giemme]

15 minutes ago, Fritag said:

They look awful small after a few months of mucking about at 1/48 scale 

Ooops... you've caught the bug....     Once you try 1/48....

 

Ciao

[perdu]

34 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

 

 

Weighed up the mechanics of moving the Hawks from the shelf to the bench.

 

Have to say tho’.  They look awful small after a few months of mucking about at 1/48 scale 

At least they are not going to sprain your back when moving them

 

Next weekend?

 

January?

 

 

 

[TheBaron]

3 hours ago, Fritag said:

Weighed up the mechanics of moving the Hawks from the shelf to the bench.

Jayzus lads.

Sounds like he's going to spend another six months building some kind of crane...

[Brandy]

Hawks, cranes... He's on the slippery slope. It'll be Doves and Herons next!

 

Ian

[Cheshiretaurus]

7 minutes ago, Brandy said:

It'll be Doves and Herons next!

De Havilland of course!

[Terry1954]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:19 PM, perdu said:

Next weekend?

 

January?

 

 

 

 

It's got to be soon. I feel it in my water 🥱

 

 

[Martian]

On 02/12/2021 at 15:00, Brandy said:

You may need a good supply of food and drink to keep you alive while waiting....

 

Ian

How much food and drink does the average Earthling consume in a year?

 

Curious of Mars 👽

On 02/12/2021 at 16:44, Fritag said:

 

Now on the basis of what flimsy evidence can you be so cynical Ian?  

 

Bench cleared of Spittie.

 

Weighed up the mechanics of moving the Hawks from the shelf to the bench.

 

Have to say tho’.  They look awful small after a few months of mucking about at 1/48 scale 

It lives! It's alive!

 

Astounded of Mars 👽

 

PS: You were AWOL at Telford, @Space Ranger has been instructed to send his minions out to place you under modelling bench arrest. You will now find your bench awaiting you in the naughty corner; you know, the one where @corsaircorp has his permanent residence. 

[Bedders]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:44 PM, Fritag said:

Have to say tho’.  They look awful small after a few months of mucking about at 1/48 scale 

That really is The Thing. I'm basically a 1/72 man but recently have been impressed by the impact of 1/48, even if it is single-engined fighters. Trying to do both at the same time, or in quick succession one to t'other, ain't easy...

 

Justin 

[keefr22]

1 hour ago, Bedders said:

I'm basically a 1/72 man but recently have been impressed by the impact of 1/48,

 

Ditto, I never thought I'd abandon the one true scale, but almost all my recent builds have been in 1/48, so I've thought a number of times recently about getting shot of all my 72nd kits.

 

Steve, imagine what you could do revisiting the Chippie in 1/48 with the new Airfix kit....?!

 

Keith