Wessex Colors

[Orion]

Hi Britmodellers,

 

In recent finished Wessex models, I have observed one of the main rotorblades to be sprayed completely yellow on the top.

I would like to ask the Wessex specialists to please inform me on the colorcode of the main rotorblades (top and underside) and the tailrotor from RN and RAF birds.

4+ publication is not clear on the matter.

Your help is much appreciated,

 

Dirk

The Netherlands

[Pat C]

Dirk

 

I think the usual configuration is as follows:-

 

Main rotors top: RAF Dark Green, bottom: Black wrapping slightly onto the upper surface.

Tail Rotor : Silver with red and white stripes at the tip

 

Someone else will tell you when the single yellow rotor was used - I think maybe for some SAR machines?

 

Pat

[heloman1]

On the nail there Pat, SAR duties only if memory serves me correctly. Welcom to the Wessex Club Dirk.

 

Colin

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

I second Colin's sentiments..you can never have too many Wessex modelers!

Note that tail rotor can be dark green,red tip and nat metal leading edge.

I have seen a 72 Sqn one with the yellow blade but can't say if this was normal as that one was in SAR fit.

Richard

[TimB]

Hi Dirk

 

I think the single yellow blade was introduced about 1989, as a conspicuity measure for the SAR ac.  At least, the paperwork and first blades were at Finningley by mid-1988, when I left SAR.  The one blade was highly visible - you could see the single blade going round well before you could see the yellow fuselage in many cases. 

Regards

Tim

Edited January 10, 2013 by TimB

[Wez]

I second Colin's sentiments..you can never have too many Wessex modelers!

Note that tail rotor can be dark green,red tip and nat metal leading edge.

I have seen a 72 Sqn one with the yellow blade but can't say if this was normal as that one was in SAR fit.

Richard

You wouldn't fit a yellow blade just for SAR fit, replacing a blade requires track and balance flights and a lot of nauseating hard work to get the track, balance and vibration signature in.

 

Changing a blade is something you do because you have to and is purely for maintenance/airworthiness reasons.

 

Chances are, the reason why the 72 Sqn Walter had a yellow blade (and it wasn't for the same reason as those on the SAR Fleet as TimB mentions), is because that was the only blade they could get at the time.

 

Wez

Edited January 10, 2013 by Wez

[Grizzly]

You wouldn't fit a yellow blade just for SAR fit, replacing a blade requires track and balance flights and a lot of nauseating hard work to get the track, balance and vibration signature in.

 

Changing a blade is something you do because you have to and is purely for maintenance/airworthiness reasons.

 

Chances are, the reason why the 72 Sqn Walter had a yellow blade (and it wasn't for the same reason as those on the SAR Fleet as TimB mentions), is because that was the only blade they could get at the time.

 

Wez

Falklands & post Falklands Tail rotor black with red tips.

[perdu]

XR525 which is held in captivity on a blooming great plinth in the hangar at Cosford's RAF Aerospace Museum has one yellow blade, which was why I painted her thus.

I read that the yellow blade was fairly often fitted to HC2s but unpopular when in a potential shooting situation because one yellow blade flashing around did no good at all to its dark green camouflage


I can see why it's on SAR birds though, makes sense for that role.

oops that looks big  sorry

Edited January 10, 2013 by perdu

[huvut76g7gbbui7]

 

You wouldn't fit a yellow blade just for SAR fit, replacing a blade requires track and balance flights and a lot of nauseating hard work to get the track, balance and vibration signature in.

 

Changing a blade is something you do because you have to and is purely for maintenance/airworthiness reasons.

 

Chances are, the reason why the 72 Sqn Walter had a yellow blade (and it wasn't for the same reason as those on the SAR Fleet as TimB mentions), is because that was the only blade they could get at the time.

 

Wez

 Thanks for that info Wez,obviously just co-incidence of that combination then.I did wonder why they would want a bright yellow 'here I am' in the province!

RG

[Orion]

Hello Wessex Specialists,

 

Thanks for the reply's.

I have my answers.

 

Highest regards,

 

Dirk / The Netherlands.

[tonyot]

You wouldn't fit a yellow blade just for SAR fit, replacing a blade requires track and balance flights and a lot of nauseating hard work to get the track, balance and vibration signature in.

 

Changing a blade is something you do because you have to and is purely for maintenance/airworthiness reasons.

 

Chances are, the reason why the 72 Sqn Walter had a yellow blade (and it wasn't for the same reason as those on the SAR Fleet as TimB mentions), is because that was the only blade they could get at the time.

 

Wez

Hello Wez,

               Didn`t 72 Sqn have to keep at least one Wessex on SAR standby when they were at Aldergrove? What with the extra kit that was added to the interior like the waterproof inner lining to the fuselage etc why not add the yellow blade too, after all, when I queried the yellow blade with a 22 Sqn Wessex pilot who I was working alongside when I noticed it on our aircraft he told me that it was a SAR safety feature to help determine how close the rotor disc was to cliffs or ships masts. It would make sense for 72 Sqn to have 2 or 3 airframes fitted with the yellow blade and internal waterproofing at any one time so that they could rotate the SAR tasking between them!

All the best,

                Tony O

[heloman1]

You wouldn't fit a yellow blade just for SAR fit, replacing a blade requires track and balance flights and a lot of nauseating hard work to get the track, balance and vibration signature in.

 

Changing a blade is something you do because you have to and is purely for maintenance/airworthiness reasons.

 

Chances are, the reason why the 72 Sqn Walter had a yellow blade (and it wasn't for the same reason as those on the SAR Fleet as TimB mentions), is because that was the only blade they could get at the time.

 

Wez

Hi Wez, I beg to differ.  Relacement of a blade would not need  'track and ballance flight'. Tracking is performed on the ground with rotors running and a tracking flag on a pole. ballance is built into the blades at the factory. Each blade is marked on the tip cover with a coloured crayon red, yellow, blue and green. The rotors are spun up and the flag turned into the rotor disc each blade tip makes a mark on the flag, the marks are measured and the discrepavcies if any noted and adjusments made dependant upon the measurerments. The colours refer to the coloured reference bands on the blade root, the wrist joint and the pitch change rods where any adjustment would be made. 

If I remember correctly a set of four blades comes as a matched set, ex factory, equal weights and similar ballance settings within a tollerance.

 

If the set were to be preserved as a set at unit level and one had a coat of yellow applied for high visablitiy reasons then the other three could be similarly treated to a coat of green, thereby keeping the weights similar.

As for it being the only blade available, up to the date they were mandated yellow blades didn't exist.

 

I hope the above helps sheds some light on the matter.

 

Colin, ex Wessex maintainer

[Pete in Lincs]

Ah, Wessex blade tracking. Frightening stuff.

One Helo, tied down & trying to lift the planet!

Climb up (while turning & burning) to check for leaks on the transmission deck after a servicing.

Those were the days. Health & safety?, Ha!

On the Wessex main blades the leading edge was covered in a black rubber tape. About 5 inches wide.

This came in long rolls & the glue on the back was activated with MEK.

To replace, in the field, balance on top of a Land Rover & try to ignore the fumes!

It was easier in the blade bay!

Pete

[phildagreek]

Remember, any decent Wessex needs to have "ROYAL NAVY" on the side. 

 

Just saying. 

[Wez]

Hello Wez,

               Didn`t 72 Sqn have to keep at least one Wessex on SAR standby when they were at Aldergrove? What with the extra kit that was added to the interior like the waterproof inner lining to the fuselage etc why not add the yellow blade too, after all, when I queried the yellow blade with a 22 Sqn Wessex pilot who I was working alongside when I noticed it on our aircraft he told me that it was a SAR safety feature to help determine how close the rotor disc was to cliffs or ships masts. It would make sense for 72 Sqn to have 2 or 3 airframes fitted with the yellow blade and internal waterproofing at any one time so that they could rotate the SAR tasking between them!

All the best,

                Tony O

 

Hi Tony,

 

The reasons you quote for the yellow blade were the same as those given to me for the yellow blade on the Queenie.

 

Regarding 72 Sqn keeping cabs on SAR stand-by, whilst the internal role equipment can be moved about, that can be accomplished in a few hours - it's a nause but it's relatively easily achievable, the prime thing here is it doesn't require any additional maintenance penalty unlike changing a blade.

 

So whilst 72 may have had a cab roled for SAR you wouldn't change a blade just for that role.  Additionally depending on airframe hours/servicing schedules or unserviceabilities you could role change which was your SAR cab, not so easy to do that with a blade for the reasons I've mentioned.

 

Hi Wez, I beg to differ.  Relacement of a blade would not need  'track and ballance flight'. Tracking is performed on the ground with rotors running and a tracking flag on a pole. ballance is built into the blades at the factory. Each blade is marked on the tip cover with a coloured crayon red, yellow, blue and green. The rotors are spun up and the flag turned into the rotor disc each blade tip makes a mark on the flag, the marks are measured and the discrepavcies if any noted and adjusments made dependant upon the measurerments. The colours refer to the coloured reference bands on the blade root, the wrist joint and the pitch change rods where any adjustment would be made. 

If I remember correctly a set of four blades comes as a matched set, ex factory, equal weights and similar ballance settings within a tollerance.

 

If the set were to be preserved as a set at unit level and one had a coat of yellow applied for high visablitiy reasons then the other three could be similarly treated to a coat of green, thereby keeping the weights similar.

As for it being the only blade available, up to the date they were mandated yellow blades didn't exist.

 

I hope the above helps sheds some light on the matter.

 

Colin, ex Wessex maintainer

 

Ah Colin,

 

That was track and balance back in the days of yore

 

That method of doing the job had long passed into history by the time I started working on helicopters although the old codgers I worked with used to talk about it when people complained about the equipment we were using at the time (you know the routine, telling scary stories to keep the kids out of the deep, dark woods)!

 

I had a chat with my colleague who worked on Walters during the early 90's, by then they were even using Rotortune on the old coal-fired helicopter, so you can see, techniques had moved on quite a lot from the dark old days, whilst blades were delivered weight matched and statically balanced would only work if those blades never went U/S and needed replacing, also it wouldn't always be possible to provide a matched blade so you'd have to fit the ones you could get.

 

Blade weight and static balance is only one factor that needs to be taken into account when matching a blade, even if you achieved that there's no guarantee the blades will fly together correctly, this was particularly true towards the end of the Walter's career because the blades had become more flexible with age, it wasn't enough to match weight and static balance, flying hours was a critical factor too which is possibly why a yellow blade found its way onto an SH Walter!

 

Either way, replacement of a blade just for a role requirement is an unwanted and needless maintenance burden!

 

As an informed observer I have to say that rotor track and balance is 50% science and 50% dark magic!

 

Remember, any decent Wessex needs to have "ROYAL NAVY" on the side. 

 

Just saying. 

 

Captain Pugwash retired his Walter fleet 'cos he needed the coal to keep his steam powered ships (Intrepid/Fearless) going - you've got to keep stokers busy!

 

Wez - ex SH Liney

Edited January 11, 2013 by Wez

[goggsy]

Not sure of the truth of this but it was told to me by a guy who was fairly reliable on most things so I thought it might be worth repeating.

 

I was told that the yellow blade was introduced after an incident in the Lake District in which an RAF SAR Sea King was hovering close to Esk Buttress on Scafell Pike with a mountain rescuer dangling from the winch. Because of the conditions the pilot lost sight of his blades against the grey green of the face, which he clipped. Amazingly he managed to auto-rotate and land the man on the winch without injury before pancaking nearby. The blades cut a gash in the rock face, which has since been developed into a new climbing route known as "Desperately Sea King" E6 6B (that's climbing talk for "quite hard"). The incident definitely happened but I don't know whether that was the origin of the yellow blade. Seems logical though, and what's one more bit of yellow on a bright yellow helicopter anyway?

[perdu]

Sounds a bit fishy  ...  sorry

 

The driver bloke sits underneath the flattish yellow bits rotating above, so do the rest of the crew.

 

How can they see the yellow bit? The lower faces of the blades are usually black as I understand it

 

 

 

I'm not much of a believer, if the yellow blade was underneath, then maybe.

 

 

 

b

[heloman1]

Hi Wez. Point taken, as as in the past and most probably in the future helicopter technology is a dark art, probably black art! However the subject was well aired and I think Perdu has summed it up if the yellow blade was introducer because of the Sea King accicdent/incident and it is not visible from underneath, then why?. I has to be for the same reason, some huey blades (upper surfaces) had white patches on them. It wasn't for the Gooks, they new the Hueys were coming, it's hard to disguise the sound of two hundred choppers simultaneously thrashing the air!

 

Colin

[Andrew Perren]

Whilst I agree the yellow blade must be a visibility measure it can't be of any use to the crew because none of them can see it. It would be of use to either another aircraft or trained personnel on higher ground. Either way they would have to be in radio contact with the pilot.

Colin adds a valuable point as the white or yellow blade on Vietnam hueys was definitely to aid other aircraft in the area to identify the presence of the helo.

As a related question - during a time of conflict would SAR assets be offered some protection from enemy attack by clearly identifying themselves ?

Edited January 12, 2013 by Andrew Perren

[NAVY870]

Ahh Wessex blade tracking, that still gives me nightmares.

On 816 squadron we used a strip of masking tape on the flag as the chinagraph pens used to mark the blade tips

didnt like marking the canvas flag. The announcement that such and such aircraft needed a blade track was the fastest way known

to clear a crew room. We that transferred over from fixed wing always thought our fling wing brothers a bit potty and this unnatural

practice just proved it.

The maintenance test flight afterwards was fun though, check the track with a strobe and if all ok maybe a spot of stick time.

The 31B's tail rotors were a gloss light grey with red and white tips (we had to polish them on the after flight inspection) the sacrificial tape

on the main blades was clear ( and a pain in the bottom to fit) The blades were more of a faded olive drab on top and black on the under sides.

 

I have to agree with phildagreek, real Wessex have "NAVY" on the side!

[tonyot]

Hiya Folks,

              This yellow rotor blade has got people going hasn`t it!

 

Coming from a SAR pilot it was DEFINITELY part of the SAR fit, which I think we can all definitely agree and I love the story of the Sea King in the lakes by the way!

 

Having looked into the matter further I cannot find a definitive reason but some reasons for having the yellow blade in the SAR role are;

 

- To increase visibility of the SAR helicopter while flying in their standard low level environment which is usually outside usual military low flying areas. The stroboscopic (right word?) effect of the single blade naturally attracts the eyes and helps to warn civil pilots that the helicopter is there.

 

-As an extension to above, apparently the yellow blade also warns other pilots that the helicopter could be hovering or liable to move in any direction without warning. Although this came from an RAF source I cannot find anything else to substantiate this,...have we any PPL`s on the website who can confirm or deny this.

 

- Remember in the good old days when we had Nimrods? When a SAR helicopter was dispatched out to sea on a SAR sortie a Nimrod was usually scrambled to act as top cover from a relatively high altitude (apparently Hercules are supposed to do this now, when (if?) available) and it strikes me that the yellow blade would help the Nimrod crew to spot the small helicopter from above over the sea and keep it in visual range, again due to the stroboscopic (?) effect.

 

-When operating near to cliffs there is very often some form of emergency service present at the top of the cliff and the yellow blade was introduced to help them to observe the proximity of the blades to the cliff face. It helps to have a third party observing you from a distance who is in radio contact after all?

 

The SAR configured Wessex of 72 Sqn would have benefitted from all of these (the Nimrod one is probably the strongest one-what do you think?) and I stand by what I said that the yellow blade would have been fitted for this role requirement even to an aircraft whose main role requirement when not on SAR standby was Support Helicopter work. One thread that I was reading on the internet about 72 Sqn`s disbandment celebrations asked why did the 72 Sqn SAR Wessex at Aldergrove ALWAYS have one of its rotor blades painted yellow! 

 

Ian at Heritage was on 72 Sqn at Aldergrove for many years so maybe he could tell us? I`ll PM him,

 

Cheers

          Tony O      

 

-

Edited January 12, 2013 by tonyot

[Black Knight]

I started reading this with interest.

Being 90% colourblind I did not know one of the blades was yellow when I first saw a Wessex with it. At the time I lived just out side the town of Dungannon and all I saw was the gap in the rotation circle - the Wessex had banked steeply over trees before setting down. I thought it had lost a blade by hitting the trees. It was no more than half a mile to it, and I was over quickly, only to see it lift away again.

Now I know it was a yellow blade. Only took 20 years to find out.

[James P M]

Just thought i would add my two pence worth here.I served in Northern Ireland in the early 90's with the R.A.F (T.S.W).The odd Wessex did indeed have a yellow blade.72 Sqn had a duel role to transport troops and SAR.I used to often go on trips to practice over Loch Erne on the small islands.

 

We often used to fit the Night Sun at St Angelo when aircraft used to stay overnight and this was on occasion used on SAR duties.

 

James 

[Grizzly]

Sounds a bit fishy  ...  sorry

 

The driver bloke sits underneath the flattish yellow bits rotating above, so do the rest of the crew.

 

How can they see the yellow bit? The lower faces of the blades are usually black as I understand it

 

 

 

I'm not much of a believer, if the yellow blade was underneath, then maybe.

 

 

 

b

What you say is true that is why the rotor tips are painted yellow above & below to give the pilot a reference point. The single upper blade is a warning to other rescue assets to keep clear & not cause a down wash.

[perdu]

I dont suppose I was very clear in my somewhat jocular earlier message sorry

 

I always thought the yellow upper blade had to be for visibility for the aircraft from other "assets", no other explanation worked for me

 

So I am very glad to have that confirmed.

 

Black Night that missing blade incident must have been just a tad distressing, bet you are glad you have had it cleared up

 

I love it when these apparently simple topics expand to give us so much more from them, we all go away from the thread with so much extra that it's well worth the slight thread drift

 

Thank you to all who have expanded my knowlege base in here   Especially when it is the mighty Wessex that you are expanding for me.

 

Again

 

thanks chaps

 

 

b