Westland Wasp HAS 1: 'Ambuscade Flight: XT778'

[hendie]

I have to agree with the learned Pete (Retd), Liney-Ex. For the use of.

 

A bit of an epic update Tony, and I must apologise for not commenting on your previous couple of posts. This was for a combination of reasons including, but not limited to: being busy, didn't have time, caught me at a bad time, was in awe, couldn't think of anything to add to what had already been said, and lastly, being pretty much speechless.

I still can't think of anything to add here, other than - carry on Wasp'ing

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

10 hours ago, hendie said:

carry on Wasp'ing

Oh Matron!

[perdu]

More outstanding standing out Tony

 

As this would be a good start position for a future Scout builder it seems almost a shame the flot gear frame has to be inbuilt, but no worries I understand why it has to be.

 

More wonderful insight into the problems of design and development, thank you sir.

[Brandy]

I thought I had problems redesigning bits I'd got wrong, but my troubles were nothing compared to the epic adjustments you've had to make.

All worth it in the long run of course!

 

Have a great weekend!

 

Ian

[Terry1954]

As Bill says, more outstanding work, especially so given the latest set of challenges you have discovered, and meticulously overcome in your familiar but hugely admired approach to resolving such issues.

 

The inspiring and superbly entertaining viewing continues from down here in deepest southern Dorset.

 

Whilst on the subject of southern Dorset I thought I'd mention a recent visit to good old (and familiar to you I seem to recall) "Books Afloat" in Weymouth, where I acquired a couple more prizes for my bookshelves, now straining under the weight of quite a few additions from that superb shop.

His stock seems to be growing every time I visit, so you should put it on your visit list when you next pass this way!

 

Terry

 

 

[Navy Bird]

Holy Frijole. Yikes.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[AMB]

Well that's 29 pages of incredible CAD drawings and 3D printed parts. I wonder how many pages on the forum before we see a completed model?

 

How are you planning to make the transparencies? Vacu-form or is it possible to 3D-print them using clear resin? 

[Chewbacca]

Just spent some time catching up with this after seeing multiple notifications dropping in to my inbox to say there were new posts.  I'm lost for words to describe my admiration for the attention to detail you are showing.  The major manufacturers could learn a thing or two here.  But then if their products were as good as this, there'd be nothing for us to do other than an out of the box build.

 

On 23/11/2023 at 18:06, TheBaron said:

A third option for the front doors (and the one I'll be using) is to not have front doors. Frequently removed in the operational environment and replaced with small side windshields (I have a number of photos of Ambuscade's Wasp sporting these), these naval pince-nez will come included as an option in the kit:

 

In all the times that I flew in a Wasp, they never had the doors fitted.  Two reasons for that.  Firstly, the aircraft had such short endurance that the weight of the doors could be replaced with extra fuel.  Secondly, if the aircraft ditched over the sea and the flot bags activated, you couldn't open the rear doors so any passengers were effectively trapped inside.  They were fitted when the cab was on deck to protect the inside from salt spray.  I left mine on when I "improved" the 1/48 (1/50?) Fujimi kit simply because I felt the surrounding structure wouldn't cope with me trying to cut away all of the doors so I just removed the Pilot's.

 

On 23/11/2023 at 18:06, TheBaron said:

I'm now convinced that there are two types of scrutiny in modelling:

1. 'The cursory examination': a first attempt, often associated with an inner monologue of: 'that bit looks ok/it's the right way up anyway/I might stop these tablets/I might take more of these tablets.'.
2. 'The curse -ery examination': the subsequent discovery of one's own ineptitude, as indicated by outbursts of an obscene nature and/or varieties of fist-shaking/teeth-baring behaviours. Often accompanied by taking of more tablets.

 

So very true.  I have lost count of the number of times I have been there in my research.

 

On 23/11/2023 at 18:06, TheBaron said:

 

 

Do you have a larger copy of the image with the red crosses?  When I built mine, which portrayed our cab in HECLA in '82, I thought I had found all of the photos of HECLA's/HYDRA's/HERALD's Wasps from that conflict but I don't think I've seen that one before.  Definitely not HECLA's - the white box was much shallower.

 

 

 

[TheBaron]

Just a quick midweek update to catch up on replies.

On 23/11/2023 at 19:20, Pete in Lincs said:

Tweed? Not as such. My clothing (unless I'm being taken out by Her indoors) encompasses the words, old, comfy and warm. In no particular order

 Likewise Pete: I have recently discovered the pleasures of the cuffed-leg courduroy trouser...

 

I've recently been listenbing to the Dorothy L. Sayers' audiobook - 'The Nine Tailors' - set in your neck of the woods and can reccomend highly.

On 23/11/2023 at 20:18, hendie said:

This was for a combination of reasons including, but not limited to: being busy, didn't have time, caught me at a bad time

Alan - sincerely hope all is well at Casa Hendie.

My thanks for your kind sentiments.

On 23/11/2023 at 20:18, hendie said:

I still can't think of anything to add here, other than - carry on Wasp'ing

 

On 24/11/2023 at 07:10, Pete in Lincs said:

Oh Matron!

Stop messin' about! 😁

On 24/11/2023 at 08:56, perdu said:

More wonderful insight into the problems of design and development, thank you sir.

Cheers Bill: with the open nature of the cab on this, it's occurred to me recently (i.e., exteremely late in the day!) that I have to consider the painting sequence as carefully as the construction one. Otherwise a chap could quite literally paint himself into a corner!

On 24/11/2023 at 13:34, Brandy said:

I thought I had problems redesigning bits I'd got wrong, but my troubles were nothing compared to the epic adjustments you've had to make.

Thanks Ian: perversely I find the big problems less daunting than small ones a lot of the time, if for no other reason than life is a morbid vale of tears devoid of hope or meaning the former usually results from a better overall understanding of the subject emerging from prior inaccuaracies in my work. Of course such problems initially expresses themselvesin the form of  four letter words before resolving into more  a philosophical form in hindsight!

On 24/11/2023 at 13:59, Terry1954 said:

The inspiring and superbly entertaining viewing continues from down here in deepest southern Dorset.

With putting both sons through university at present, myself and Mrs. B dearly miss getting over to that neck of the woods every summer Terry: sincerely hope we can meet up there in the future my friend.

On 24/11/2023 at 13:59, Terry1954 said:

Whilst on the subject of southern Dorset I thought I'd mention a recent visit to good old (and familiar to you I seem to recall) "Books Afloat" in Weymouth, where I acquired a couple more prizes for my bookshelves, now straining under the weight of quite a few additions from that superb shop.

His stock seems to be growing every time I visit, so you should put it on your visit list when you next pass this way!

Utter relief to hear that this place is still going strong Terry - the upstairs there is about the closest to paradise I can conceive of for naval and aviation bibliophiles. 'Books Afloat' would have to be part of my Trinity of all-time favourite secondhand premises, the others being the long-closed Thorpe's Bookshop at the top of the high street in Guildford and that other little place with three floors of books and dust at the foot of the hill in Arundel (if it's still there). OoopsI Nearly forgot the Sanctuary Bookshop in Lyme Regis of course. Four. Four favourite bookshops! (Nobody expects the Spanish Inq.....)

On 27/11/2023 at 21:54, Navy Bird said:

Holy Frijole. Yikes. 

Gracias Señor.

~puts on some Ry Cooder in the background~

On 27/11/2023 at 23:47, AMB said:

Well that's 29 pages of incredible CAD drawings and 3D printed parts. I wonder how many pages on the forum before we see a completed model?

If you're starting a sweepstake Adrian I want 15% of the take.

On 27/11/2023 at 23:47, AMB said:

How are you planning to make the transparencies? Vacu-form or is it possible to 3D-print them using clear resin? 

The very question currently exercising my brain! At the start of this build I'd intended to use vacforming for the cabin transprencies however in several critical areas it would be more useful if I could print the windows integrated into roof and nose structures for strength.  After doing some background research I'm in the early stages of beginning to experiment with Anycubic's High Clear resin as it's not too expensive. So far I've spent a while dialling in exposure times, as for the Saturn 2 there are no pre-existing parameters to set up in the slicing software. I'm not worried about printing any actual parts with it yet as I want to see how well the cured resin avoids yellowing over time (a frequent fault in clear variants). I've had one thick piece on the windowsill of the studio for about 5 weeks now and have not so far seen any evidence of jaundice.

 

Results to follow in due course if they are successful.

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Just spent some time catching up with this after seeing multiple notifications dropping in to my inbox to say there were new posts.  I'm lost for words to describe my admiration for the attention to detail you are showing.  The major manufacturers could learn a thing or two here.  But then if their products were as good as this, there'd be nothing for us to do other than an out of the box build.

From someone of your background Chewbacca I'm am most appreicative of those comments. Thank-you.

Fear not, there's still pelnty of scratching in prspect here - especially with regards to Nimbus detailing!

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

In all the times that I flew in a Wasp, they never had the doors fitted.  Two reasons for that.  Firstly, the aircraft had such short endurance that the weight of the doors could be replaced with extra fuel.  Secondly, if the aircraft ditched over the sea and the flot bags activated, you couldn't open the rear doors so any passengers were effectively trapped inside. 

Was aware of the first instance but this is the first I've heard of the float bag/rear door cancelling. Grim.

I had video of an interview with Lt Cdr Ellerbeck describing how and why  they took the float gear off his Wasp down in the Falklands but can't for the life of me find it now to share. Sorry.

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Do you have a larger copy of the image with the red crosses? 

It's not great quality but here it is:

You'll know better than me if this matches the time-frame of a similar shot on the IWM site taken from a different angle. 

 

More next week when I should (hopefully) have some transparency results to share.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Nice catch up, Tony. I don't do audio books, though I do enjoy old radio comedies, Goons, Horne, Navy lark etc. Normal modelling listening is classic FM.

As for amateur sleuths, I could never see the point. Were the local Police so inept?

Mind you, my present bedtime read is Max Hastings, the Secret war. MI6, OSS etc. An awful lot of them were inept. Or Crooks, or traitors! Fascinating stuff.

I love that picture of the Wasp with the red cross. I've read how they picked up casualties whilst under mortar fire. Bless them all.

[Chewbacca]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

You'll know better than me if this matches the time-frame of a similar shot on the IWM site taken from a different angle. 

Thanks Tony.  Well it matches the timeframe inasmuch that it was taken in the period April to September 1982, because that was the only time to the best of my knowledge that Wasps ever carried red crosses.

 

All 3 Wasps were painted slightly differently because there were no mandated instructions for how to do it and each of the 3 flights did their own thing.  HECLA had small white boxes surrounding our red crosses.  I think HYDRA had these larger white boxes on the nose and the area under the engine platform painted all white while HERALD's had a whole white nose and I think white either side of the engine.

 

So I think that is HYDRA's cab - XT432 - though the accompanying image on the IWM website that is captioned as landing on board HYDRA is clearly incorrect because the deck code in ?R - which I presume is HR which was HERALD's code.  HYDRA was HD.  If you blow up the IWM image to 500% it looks like me to be an XS registration.  I'm pretty certain that the IWM image is a training exercise which might explain why HERALD and HYDRA were cross decking.  They sailed south together whereas HECLA went on her own from Gibraltar.

 

I'm confused where the photo above is taken.  it clearly isn't an H Class survey ship because the flight deck has twin concentric circles and all of the survey ships only had the smaller Wasp circle.  There are also what appear to containers and a railway carriage in the background, so that would suggest alongside somewhere.  They're also putting the casualty into the aircraft, which means almost certainly it is onboard SS Uganda.  But as far as I am aware, Uganda never went alongside, at least not until well after the conflict period and Hydra's last casualties were taken to Montevideo in early July.  It could be that it is SS Uganda and the Wasp has landed on facing into a Red 135 relative wind, and what i think are containers are the deck houses just forward f the flight deck on the stbd side.  But I don't know.  Must find my copy of Nicci Pugh's book White Ship Red Crosses to see if that has any better photos of the flight deck.

 

1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I love that picture of the Wasp with the red cross. I've read how they picked up casualties whilst under mortar fire. Bless them all.

 

I'd be interested where you read that.  I've been researching for a book that I am trying to write on the H Class as ambulance ships and to the best of my knowledge, although we trained for and expected to collect casualties from the battlefield and take them to SS Uganda, in reality we only ever picked up casualties from Uganda once they had been stabilised sufficiently well to be transported to Montevideo for RAF CASEVAC flight to Brize Norton.  I think it was the battlefield helicopters which were dodging the mortar shells to get the casualties to Surg Cdr Rick Jolly's team at the field hospital at Ajax Bay.  But information about those ships is very sketchy (which is why my book is progressing extremely slowly!)

[Pete in Lincs]

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I'd be interested where you read that

My mistake, and apologies. I read 3 Days in June by James O'Connell last year, I think. I thought I'd seen a picture of a Wasp. But I just checked again and it's a Scout. Only the top of the cab is visible.

Wessex and Gazelles also picked up the wounded. Perhaps there was something in the narrative that mentioned a Wasp. Time to read it again. An excellent book.

[bissyboat]

Nice bit of modelling and I like your work on the rotorhub. ⚓👍

[pheonix]

I had not seen this thread until now - sadly I do not get as much time to follow as I used to do - life etc.

 

I have just spent a long time reading most of this and am even more lost for words than I had previously been when reading your threads. This is truly model engineering rather than modelling! Absolutely mind blowing - ingenious, daring, perfectionist, brilliant..... I have run out of superlatives because I am not very literate. 

 

Do keep up the good work and I must look in much more frequently in future.

 

P

[TheBaron]

Health and Christmas duties have slowed Wasp matters of late but work IS continuing - a full update to follow in the New Year. Just to thank everyone for their kind comments  & ongoing support with this project:

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Sorry to hear of the health problems, Tony. I hope you feel better soon. 

Meantime, all the best to you and yours, Have a good next couple of weeks.

Regards, Pete

[Hamden]

1 minute ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Sorry to hear of the health problems, Tony. I hope you feel better soon. 

Meantime, all the best to you and yours, Have a good next couple of weeks.

Regards, Pete

 

Seconded

 

   Stay safe          Roger

[giemme]

Same here, Tony.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

Ciao

[Brandy]

Merry Christmas and best wishes for 2024 to you and yours Tony!

 

Ian

[Terry1954]

All good wishes coming likewise from the very edge of southern Dorset!

 

MC and HNY Tony!

 

T.

[TheBaron]

Afternoon all.

First post of 2024 and a bit to relate with various parts of this aircraft now slowly coming together in their final iteration. I now have the upperworks, sides and nose of the airframe complete with surface detailing at the stage of planning out the final campaign on the underside section, with all the attendant features for torpedo release/fuzing gear &etc. Back in December also there was some more experimentation done with other resin, in order to rationalize the balance of methods used in the kit: I'll start with that area first and move forwards in time to the present.

 

I didn't want to settle upon vacforming as the chosen method for all the cabin and roof transparencies before giving transparent uv resins a chance to see how amenable they'd recently become and so after a bit of research I settled upon Anycubic's High Clear - for several overlapping reasons. Aside from the apparent very high quality of its transparency, AC's publicity promised to remove the necessity for all the tedious sanding and polishing associated other resins of this kind by having you 'first brush a thin layer of high clear resin back onto the model to cover the layer lines' and then follow their recommended post-processing cycle, in order to 'bring the model back to crystal clear'.  I've no reason to doubt that this works fine for big chunky volumetric objects like the figures shown on their website, but can save people a lot of time by showing that this is not at all a satisfactory process for thin/curving areas like aircraft glazing:

I tried every variation of AC's recommended processing cycle and even experimented with Alclad Aquas Gloss and Klear as alternative methods, yet none came within the proverbial gnat's crotchet of the required visual quality. The stuff does print very well in terms of detail and ease of use, just that it's not suitable for thin features of this kind. Were it just a one-off  for personal use, I may have persevered with the usual detailed sand/polish routine on these parts but with such a crude finish on the large number of windows involved, such results are of insufficient standard to sell to others in raw form - especially given the thin cross section of the 1/32 versions.

 

Vacforming therefore remains the chosen route for the Wasp's glazing here (a verdict which tbh I'm not disappointed with as I rather enjoy the physicality of the process), the bucks for which have now been output to VDT ready for support and printing tests later this month:

Last time I showed the doors they only had their locking mechanisms in place, so both front and rear sets subsequently received their surfaces details inside:

 - and out:

The hinging process for the doors has been handled by a crude but robust set of brass inserts which can be used to pose the doors as required:

 

I always like to question my own methods if I think I've gotten too comfortable with a particular approach so for those window which have a convex profile, after producting those for the rear door using the usual drawing/lofting method in, I experimented for the front set by sculpting them freehand in the forms environment in Fusion in order to compare the two workflows:

Whilst there was (as you'd expect) no difference in the quality of the shapes produced,and they took approximately the same amounts of time to generate a first draft,  the forms approach won hands-down in the subequent tweaking and adjusting phase to get the topology matching the original. It was just much more quick and responsive in real time to pull things around in space

The completed door and window ensembles from inside:

 - and out:

 

From here the next step was to finish the roof framing which this time around  - as I'd found previously with the doors/windows - required some further corrections to various aspects of the original design blanks:

Back in January when I'd first done a test print of the roof framework just using a standard grey resin, I wasn't at all sanguine that it would be prossible to print such features on the grounds of fragility. Since then however,  experience using eSun's hard Tough on the thinner parts of the rotor head has given me the confidence to print parts which previously would have been beyond tolerances. The roof framework now comes in two sections, the rear section mating with the front by the judicious use of brass mounting pins helping to fix alignment and strength of join:

Rear roof glazing and back windiow transparencies can then be installed from the outide:

 - whilst the front roof glazing will push up into place from below due to the presence of the rubber beading around the lip:

Not atypically at such points, you find your interest wanting to take you on to one feature, only for such momentum to be checked by the realities of the construction process - in this case producing designs for the vacform bucks for the above features. Contemplating this it occurred to me that matters would be complicated by optional installation of the APX/BEZU sight  which would require two versions of the transparency on the port side - one with a hole in the roof for the sight, the other with a raised panel of the same shape to give expression to the blanking plate present when the sight is not installed. Earlier than intended then I went back to study the manual drawing the for APX collar and just as well I did for I'd utterly forgoten the metal panel in the rear quadrant of each of the front roof windows into which the jettison handles are mounted:

It took a couple of days but in the end, collar and panels were in place:

The mint with the hole in it:

 - and the alternative version with blanking plate installed:

Bucks for both versions are included in the print set:

It's arguable that you could just  produce a single version of that feature and leave it to the builder to cut out the blanking panel (if they wanted to install the missile sight) but the risk of damaging the transparency during cutting and handling means having two versions  will I think make matters more user-friendly.

 

Turning attention to the nose and more nasty surprises appeared  in close-up at the sheer amount of rivet and panel line detail needing expression; not only the raised panel of the footwell window:

 - again a vacform part that will slot in from the exterior to meet a thin lip arouind the interior for alignment and gluing purposes:

 - but also the nose access door and hinges:

 - followed by the UHF antenna, demisting nozzles, and filler cap to port for the deicing fluid tank (capacity six pints):

I'm not sure what that strip of  - guttering?  - along the brow of  the footwell windows on either side is, but it was a blinking rotter to produce. Fixing and aligning the windscreen section to the nose being a particularly critical function, there is a central mounting block provided beneath the windscreen, accompanied on either side by a locating notch to ensure the parts are symmetrically level:

 

 

 

I've a bunch more pictures of subsequent work but will keep that for the next update as I promised Mrs. B I'd modify the kitchen stove this afternoon:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards to all,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[Brandy]

Happy New Year Tony!

See previous posts for superlatives etc.

If this looks even half as good printed as it does in CAD mode it will be an absolute stunner. I do love the way you describe your processes too, it helps us lesser 3d printing mortals enormously when we come to do our own experiments in magically pulling new parts out of a tray of resin!

My next exploits in that area will be an engine sump and gearbox, wheel rims/hubs, seats, folded hood, and transmission tunnel for the Matchbox Jaguar SS100.

Hopefully the imported resin settings will work!

 

 

Ian

[Pete in Lincs]

Great to see you back, Tony. Belated happy new year to you and yours.

As for the pictures above and your work so far, Nothing to say but, Cablicious! (And to hell with the spell checker)

[Terry1954]

Happy New Year to our master modeller!

 

What a great way to start the year, by showing us the splendid results of your abilities in CAD, and talking us through the rationale of your decision on such important components as the Wasp transparencies, which are surely key to getting this model to look just perfect.

I confess that I did actually mutter a "yesssss" out loud when I read that you had decided that vacuum forming was still the desired route for these parts!

 

25 minutes ago, Brandy said:

it helps us lesser 3d printing mortals enormously

 

..... and it helps us lesser than lesser 3D mortals figure out how on earth you are doing this!

 

By the way, I do like that tinting to the cabin roof transparencies. Looks just right. Will you try and use pre coloured PTEG (I've no idea if that exists), or have the builder use tinted paint or similar?

 

Terry

 

[perdu]

Well that ties in nicely with my woes with the nose/footwell windows in teenyweeny scale Tony, so nicely it made me forget my manners old chum, sorry.

 

Its wonderful to join in with your processes so well, you teach very well sir.

 

Welcome back amongst us, even if you really had to discuss fuel for your kitchen stove, not sure where you have to pop the turkey for roasting if that was to become an issue for you all though.

 

I like the idea of slotting the kick panel windows into a fixed location, I suppose then you might be able to add the fixing screws afterwards, the damned things are making me wake up with another yet approach to try next...

My best approach so far is the little device front screen.

Moulded curved piece for the panel with additional bulge courtesy of Limino UV clear resin, hopefully this is going to work, from the outside it looks curvy windowed.

 

Sorry to be intruding but this is my bogey piece in my little build, I'm panicking a tad...