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THE FINAL HURDLE!... 1:20 scale scratch built B17G


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Wow, a 10 year project all but done. Displaying the fuselage halves with a gap is a great idea. Visitors to the museum will love having a good look at all that amazing detail. Next best thing to actually getting a tour round a real one!

 

Speaking of which, as a small child at the end of the war my dad was given a tour of a B17 at the local  American airbase (Thurleigh or  Chicksands). He says he left with a big smile and a bag of sugar. The American airmen were idolised by the kids for their generosity as much as their courage.

 

Richie

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29 minutes ago, RichieW said:

Wow, a 10 year project all but done. Displaying the fuselage halves with a gap is a great idea. Visitors to the museum will love having a good look at all that amazing detail. Next best thing to actually getting a tour round a real one!

 

Speaking of which, as a small child at the end of the war my dad was given a tour of a B17 at the local  American airbase (Thurleigh or  Chicksands). He says he left with a big smile and a bag of sugar. The American airmen were idolised by the kids for their generosity as much as their courage.

 

Richie

 

Thank you Richie...and what a lovely story about your Father!🙂

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I love the idea of a split fuselage - they did something similar with a U-Boat at the maritime museum at Ellesmere Port that looked spectacular. Downside was it was above the level of the perimeter fence so if you came out of the docks on a foggy night you quite suddenly came face to face with the torpedo tubes of a U-Boat - particularly if driving a truck! Quite unnerving if you didn’t know it was there. Left me with slightly loose bowels the first time in happened to me…

 

Whatever you decided to do will look stunning. I will be sad to see this build finish after 10 years of encouragement and occasional heckling but I can see why you have had enough!

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37 minutes ago, brianthemodeller said:

 

Whatever you decided to do will look stunning. I will be sad to see this build finish after 10 years of encouragement and occasional heckling but I can see why you have had enough!

 

Cheers mate!....I guess I have had enough and I enjoyed your heckling over the years!😉😃

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We are all toying around with our nice plastic crap with fancy decals and photo-etched Eduard addons and spoon-feeding instructions and cute metal paints, and along comes a scratch-built 1/20 B-17 wrapped with foil to put us in our proper place in this food chain - at the bottom.

 

It's like trying to jam with Hendrix with an ukelele.

 

Thread shown to wife, mostly in a "you see, you are lucky that I do the small ones and I only take some weeks" approach.

 

This is absolutely brilliant work. Speechless.

Edited by Never a Pro
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16 hours ago, brianthemodeller said:

I love the idea of a split fuselage - they did something similar with a U-Boat at the maritime museum at Ellesmere Port that looked spectacular. Downside was it was above the level of the perimeter fence so if you came out of the docks on a foggy night you quite suddenly came face to face with the torpedo tubes of a U-Boat - particularly if driving a truck! Quite unnerving if you didn’t know it was there. Left me with slightly loose bowels the first time in happened to me…

 

Whatever you decided to do will look stunning. I will be sad to see this build finish after 10 years of encouragement and occasional heckling but I can see why you have had enough!

 

Marconi in Edinburgh (I think it was) had an EE Lightning on a pedestal as a gate guard. I was unaware of this until meeting it one foggy night at 2 in the morning, which made me think that I'd definitely had too many light ales and also, time appeared to have stopped. Most perturbing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there guys

 

I need some input if that is at all possible!🙂

 

I have now finished this project and all I have to do is prepare it for display. Not as easy as it seems as there are many things I have to think about when displaying this project.....I will run them by you....

 

1. This B17 will be going into a museum and the Museum is in USA. So I have the logistical nightmare of shipping it there to start with....I am in Bulgaria and I will first ship it to UK and then on to the States.

2. As it has to be shipped I won't be able to fix some of the parts together until its actually in the States ,,,where I will then put it all together.....Tail fin/guns/doors/ tail wheel/ball turret/bomb doors!

3. But first I need to give the display a trial run before packing it ready for shipping.

 

So this is where I run my idea for display past you guys.

A. First and foremost it is important for me to show as much as the interior as possible as this was main reason I built this B17 in the first place! As you are probably aware most of the top of the entire fuselage is open so that you can see down into the cockpit/bomb bay/radio room tail section etc etc.

B. I have definitely decided to display it all in two sections....first section being from the plexiglass nose to the ball turret position.....and of course the rear section from there to the Cheyenne turret at the rear.

C. By displaying it in two sections approx 6 inches or so apart.... you will be able to look down the fuselage open ends at more of the detail.

D. I was thinking of placing the fuselage on a frame ....kind of similar to this blue frame on this B17....

 

DISPLAY_EXAMPLES_(3).jpg

 

E.This would mean that I would either leave off the bomb doors and display them separately or fix them closed!

 

F. Because I have done so much detail with the Sperry ball turret I was also thinking of displaying it separately so that you can actually see into the turret rather than it being hung underneath the fuselage where all the detail will be lost.....here is a photo of what the display could look like.....

 

DISPLAY_EXAMPLES_(1).jpg

 

G. If I did this ball turret display ..which I think I would like to do... it would mean that I would have to take out the hanging frame/ammo chutes/oxygen bottle from the fuselage ... leaving it empty all bar the walk platform around where the turret would be......I have crudely marked in red the part on my model that would be taken out on this next photo......

 

DISPLAY_EXAMPLES.jpg

 

 

 

So OK......that is the way I think I would like to go but I would really like your opinion as what you think!....(What you think about the ball turret idea and the bomb doors!)

At the end of the day of course it will be my decision but would love to hear your views!

 

Here are quite a few photos of the finished fuselage!.....obviously before the proper display......

 

PRE_DISPLAY.jpg

PRE_DISPLAY_(1).jpg

PRE_DISPLAY_(10).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(11).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(12).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(13).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(14).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(15).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(2).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(22).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(23).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(24).jpg

 

PRE_DISPLAY_(5).jpg

 

OK guys.....Thanks again and looking forward to your input!

 

Cheers

 

Fozzy

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Before you tear out the structure for the ball turret just to have it attached for display like the real turret often is, consider that there is something fascinating about the turret being just the ball as you have it now. It definitely catches my eye being solo like you have it now.

 

If you are going to construct a support frame like the blue one under Champaign Lady, maybe just stretch the vertical dimensions so the plane sits higher off the surface and display the ball turret in the space directly below where it would be mounted in the plane so that the view can easily see the relation of the turret and the support structure inside the plane. I worry that if you remove the support it will make the fuselage artificially seem "open and spacious" instead of capturing the cramped situation in that area.

 

I look forward to planning a trip to California to see it in person once it is safely on display at the craftsmanship museum. We might be able to plan a future 447th BG reunion in that area.

 

Maybe you should plan to bring it in person to eliminate the problem of having "someone else" to the final assembly and also get a chance to visit Fuddy Duddy just a few miles down the road from the museum. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lyon Foundation couldn't be convinced to fly up for a PR opportunity when your project is there.

 

I'm sure whatever you decide to do will be amazing.

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I agree with Scrapiron.

I think removing the structure from inside will detract from the overall impression of the interior. By all means display the turret separately, but leave the internal structure where it belongs. I also think you could fit only one side of the bomb doors, so they can be seen in situ, but also not hide the internal detail when viewed from the other side.

To be honest, it will be impressive however you decide to do it!

 

Just my tuppence worth.

 

Ian

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Utterly stunning... Anyone looking for a visual definition of 'labour of love' need only cast their eyes over this epic thread. This would sit well in any museum, be it a military, WW2, modelling, or aviation theme.

Congratulations Mr Fozzy, and I hope you get the recognition you deserve from those who get to host this absolute gem of an exhibit. 

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Fozzy, I agree with the above re the ball turret. Leave the gear inside, put the turret on it's own stand under the fuselage.

The bomb bay doors could sit on stands too. More work to build the stands, but worth it. 

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but, a mirror behind the fuselage, and another underneath would add to the display.

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Phenomenal Fozzy! What a big beautiful beast!

I'll add to the chorus about leaving the ammo chutes and hardware for the ball turret in place. And the same about mounting only one bomb bay door on the 'back-side' of the display.

 

Just a lovely job.

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8 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

mirror behind the fuselage, and another underneath would add to the display.

Maybe also a couple in the break in the fuselage at 45 degrees so you can see down the length if you are looking from the side?

 

Fantastic work. I’m so glad you have found a home for it.

 

Regards,

Adrian

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Hi Fozzy,

 

I wanted to give this some thought before I shoved in my tuppence worth...

 

I like the idea you describe above but I would suggest making the stands a little taller (similar to the yellow ones in the photos) so you could have one bomb bay door fitted open and the ball turret on a perspex base placed under its actual position. This would allow all of the detail to remain in the fuselage (to show how cramped that area was) but also show the detail in the turret. Clever positioning of mirrors would also help along with a comprehensive display of some of the build photos (before you put them together in your soon to be released book...)

 

Brian

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Hi Guys!

Sorry for the delay in replying especially after you all have given me your thoughts on the display...but life got in the way!

I really appreciate all your input and have taken it all on board!🙂

 

On 9/11/2021 at 7:18 PM, Ol' Scrapiron said:

Before you tear out the structure for the ball turret just to have it attached for display like the real turret often is, consider that there is something fascinating about the turret being just the ball as you have it now. It definitely catches my eye being solo like you have it now.

 

If you are going to construct a support frame like the blue one under Champaign Lady, maybe just stretch the vertical dimensions so the plane sits higher off the surface and display the ball turret in the space directly below where it would be mounted in the plane so that the view can easily see the relation of the turret and the support structure inside the plane. I worry that if you remove the support it will make the fuselage artificially seem "open and spacious" instead of capturing the cramped situation in that area.

 

I look forward to planning a trip to California to see it in person once it is safely on display at the craftsmanship museum. We might be able to plan a future 447th BG reunion in that area.

 

Maybe you should plan to bring it in person to eliminate the problem of having "someone else" to the final assembly and also get a chance to visit Fuddy Duddy just a few miles down the road from the museum. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lyon Foundation couldn't be convinced to fly up for a PR opportunity when your project is there.

 

I'm sure whatever you decide to do will be amazing.

 

Thanks for the input!.....I have decided not to "tear out" the ball hanging structure from the fuselage as you suggested....you are right it would take away the busyness of that area!...as you say I think the ball will be displayed separately below the aperture where it lives. It will however force me to stabilize the stands I have made (or figure out a new way for the stands) if I make the fuselage sit higher off the deck to accommodate the ball turret. The major point being that I want the public to see the ball clearly!

Just to let you know that I am going to be there at the museum to do the final assembly as I have family who live 40 minutes away in Warner Springs who I visit almost every year and of course I will also be visiting the Lyons Air Museum on my next trip!

 

 

On 9/11/2021 at 8:36 PM, Brandy said:

I agree with Scrapiron.

I think removing the structure from inside will detract from the overall impression of the interior. By all means display the turret separately, but leave the internal structure where it belongs. I also think you could fit only one side of the bomb doors, so they can be seen in situ, but also not hide the internal detail when viewed from the other side.

To be honest, it will be impressive however you decide to do it!

 

Just my tuppence worth.

 

Ian

 

Cheers Ian.....I will definitely place one of the bomb doors in the open position and maybe close the other...thanks for your input!

 

On 9/11/2021 at 9:00 PM, clive_t said:

Utterly stunning... Anyone looking for a visual definition of 'labour of love' need only cast their eyes over this epic thread. This would sit well in any museum, be it a military, WW2, modelling, or aviation theme.

Congratulations Mr Fozzy, and I hope you get the recognition you deserve from those who get to host this absolute gem of an exhibit. 

 

Thanks a lot Clive!

 

On 9/11/2021 at 10:21 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Fozzy, I agree with the above re the ball turret. Leave the gear inside, put the turret on it's own stand under the fuselage.

The bomb bay doors could sit on stands too. More work to build the stands, but worth it. 

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but, a mirror behind the fuselage, and another underneath would add to the display.

 

Thanks Pete....the mirror idea I will have to run past the Museum....but defo food for thought!

 

On 9/12/2021 at 1:48 AM, Thom216 said:

Phenomenal Fozzy! What a big beautiful beast!

I'll add to the chorus about leaving the ammo chutes and hardware for the ball turret in place. And the same about mounting only one bomb bay door on the 'back-side' of the display.

 

Just a lovely job.

 

Cheers mate!....appreciate it!

 

On 9/12/2021 at 6:25 AM, AdrianMF said:

Maybe also a couple in the break in the fuselage at 45 degrees so you can see down the length if you are looking from the side?

 

Fantastic work. I’m so glad you have found a home for it.

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

Thanks Adrian...will talk about the mirrors with the Museum at some point!

 

On 9/12/2021 at 4:02 PM, Spookytooth said:

Which ever way you go Fozzy it will be an excellent addition to any museum.

 

So you are not doing the wings then LOL.

 

Simon.

 

I think you know what my response will be about the wings Simon!?!!😆😉

 

 

On 9/14/2021 at 2:05 PM, brianthemodeller said:

Hi Fozzy,

 

I wanted to give this some thought before I shoved in my tuppence worth...

 

I like the idea you describe above but I would suggest making the stands a little taller (similar to the yellow ones in the photos) so you could have one bomb bay door fitted open and the ball turret on a perspex base placed under its actual position. This would allow all of the detail to remain in the fuselage (to show how cramped that area was) but also show the detail in the turret. Clever positioning of mirrors would also help along with a comprehensive display of some of the build photos (before you put them together in your soon to be released book...)

 

Brian

 

Thanks Brian for all your input!...I will definitely talk to the museum ref the photos....I have thousands of them of the entire build that I have obviously collected over the years!

 

So it seems that most of you agree with each other about the display ideas and again...I want to thank you all for your input!🙂

 

Lots to think about ....lots to do....but I will be back with an update post of whats what!

 

......but first I have to do some packing as I have sold some of my models!.....

 

b17g_002.jpg

 

Lets hope it survives the trip back to UK !!!

 

See you on the next post!

 

Cheers

Fozzy

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3 hours ago, RichieW said:

I love that SE5a, that was one of the builds that made we want to have a bash at scratch building. 

 

Richie

 

Cheers Richie!.....I had a lot of fun scratch building that!...seems such a long time ago now!😮

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Can't believe this odyssey is over. Fantastic build sir.

Now, if I may...

The ball turret - I agree with not removing the frame from the fuselage. But how about building another framework to display the ball turret in? Or part of one to give the impression.

The pictures - I think this is a wonderful idea to show how the build progressed. How about using a QR code for visitors to scan to go to a website? (maybe not this one, people may not understand our "unique" style 🤪 )

 

Now I have added to the chaos and confusion, I shall slink away.....

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/21/2021 at 5:42 AM, Bigdave22014 said:

Can't believe this odyssey is over. Fantastic build sir.

Now, if I may...

The ball turret - I agree with not removing the frame from the fuselage. But how about building another framework to display the ball turret in? Or part of one to give the impression.

The pictures - I think this is a wonderful idea to show how the build progressed. How about using a QR code for visitors to scan to go to a website? (maybe not this one, people may not understand our "unique" style 🤪 )

 

Now I have added to the chaos and confusion, I shall slink away.....

 

Thanks for your advice!...I will definitely look into the QR code idea!....I will also be building a frame that the ball will sit on but I'm still thinking of displaying it between the two halves rather than underneath as you will see more of the turret that way!....cheers!🙂

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