Ol' Scrapiron

OK, the F-84 family (Thunderjet, Thunderstreak, Thunderflash) has crossed in front of my camera lens a few times, so hopefully I can provide some reference/inspiration for those in this GB. Warning: Photo Heavy I'll just add a sampling here in case they are of some benefit... and there may be some interiors or other areas that might assist in super detailing. These are my photos taken during my travels to air museums around the US and England -- please use your own judgment on the reference value for any museum display or restoration. F-84C 47-1433 Pima Air Museum - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84C 47-1595 March AFB - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84E 49-2155 Yanks Air Museum, Chino - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84E 50-1143 NMoUSAF - - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RF-84F Thunderflash 51-1944 Pima Air Museum - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 52-9432 March AFB - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 51-9531 “Thunder Struck” Palm Springs Air Museum - - - - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 51-1378 Planes of Fame, Chino ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 52-6563 Pima Air Museum - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 0-19522 Evergreen Aviation Museum - - - - - - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YRF-84F 49-2430 FICON NMoUSAF - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 52-6526 NMoUSAF - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84F 52-8886 South Dakota Air Museum - - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ F-84G 52-2978 Warhawk Air Museum; Nampa, Idaho - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RF-84K Thunderflash 52-7259 NMoUSAF - - - Hope these help. As I mentioned earlier, please use your own judgment on reference value for any museum display or restoration.

Looks like two sets of engines... any preference between the cream resin ones and the gray ones? I look forward to seeing your progress on this.

And the real question is can you shake the plane in such a way that the cover magically appears on your work surface before the radio operator's chair (or worse). Good luck.

Perilous indeed. The crappy less-than-desired result I was left with almost killed the project for me. Almost. I told my son that I was ready to bin the whole thing. He suggested I just build a different model I wasn't overly invested in, but just FINISH something... then I realized this one actually fit that bill. I pinched the wing tops from the abandoned "trainer" project (back in B-17 STGB #1) and decided to set aside my ambitious plans and just finish this one as a "simple" project. No cutting out the rudder and elevators. No lowering the flaps. No hacking holes in the fuselage to expose the complete superdetailed interior. I'll just plod along on this as a 50% effort but much more likely to get it done if only for mojo restoration purposes. Soooooooooo.... "Gearing up" for Phase II Last time I chopped up the plate that the gear legs mount to so I could depict the interior of nacelles 2 and 3 with the oil tanks and stuff... this time the only detail I added was some brake lines. Also painted on some stripes to represent the markings that indicate tire slippage. Brake lines added... - You can see the simple plates that the gear legs and supports attach to. Nowhere near the real deal, but good enough to keep the project moving along. Added a little paint on the piping to the superchargers... The wheels fit so snugly on the gear legs that there really is no need to glue them. So snugly, in fact, that it was tough to get them on without jeopardizing the fragile brake lines. Obviously need a little putty to clean up the join on the nacelles, but the wheels are looking OK - I'm obviously going to save the Lucky Stehley Boy inspiration for a future build, as that plane is very special to me. I'll probably make this a generic Fortress with a Square K on the tail ... unless I warm up to the idea of a non-447th BG plane (gasp!) and use the Chow Hound decals in the box. Anyway, saved from the scrap heap at least for the moment. I know almost everyone is finishing up, but it wouldn't be like me not to post some reference shots that I have taken at airshows and museums in case they are of some benefit. B-17F 42-29782 Boeing Bee - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83514 Sentimental Journey -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83546 “Movie” Memphis Belle - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-85740 Aluminum Overcast - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-85784 Sally B -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-85828 I’ll Be Around -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-8543 Madras Maiden / Ye Olde Pub - - - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 42-32076 Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-6393 Starduster -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83563 Fuddy Duddy -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83684 Picadilly Lilly II - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83735 Mary Alice -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83785 Shady Lady -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83814 City of Savannah - -------------------------------------------------------------- B-17G 44-83868 (RAF Museum) - This one won't meet the extended deadline, but at least she's back in motion.

Here is an article about John Sollars and the Lucky Stehley Boy at Rattlesden. This was in the June 29, 1944 edition of the Grants County Press. Note the teeth on the chin turret and that there is no extra nose art because D-Day hasn't happened yet. The extra artwork added after D-Day was the two bombs inside a large yellow "V" with the dit-dit-dit-dash (morse code for V) at the bottom and a D at the top. The two bombs represent the two missions they made on D-Day.

I meant to share this yesterday, as Nov. 2 was the 80th anniversary of the Medal of Honor incident aboard 42-38052 Lucky Stehley Boy. 2Lt. Robert Femoyer was one of only 17 Medal of Honor recipients in the 8th AF, a figure I find astonishingly less than I had expected. My grandfather Loran Heeb flew in the 447th BG's 711th Squadron, logging 30 missions from late April to early December 1944. Robert Femoyer arrived at Rattlesden after granddad was well into his 30 missions, and actually had already flown all 10 of his missions aboard Lucky Stehley Boy (including two on D-Day) by June 19. By mid-July, granddad's crew's usual plane was 42-31582 Ol' Scrapiron which he eventually logged 11 missions, so I grew up thinking of that as "HIS" plane... (so naive to think that these crews only flew one plane, or that a plane only had one crew) Here is a photo of Lucky Stehley Boy prior to D-Day from my grandfather's scrapbook. Pilot John Sollars was the son of a dentist, and had teeth painted on the chin turret -- but not the fierce type LOL. Some time later a new turret was installed, but the corner of the mouth can still be seen on the fairing. Honestly, I should know (but don't) if the damage that was repaired on Lucky Stehley Boy was due to the Nov. 2 mission. I will find that out. Here is an excerpt from Femoyer's citation for Medal of Honor: Flying from RAF Rattlesden in Suffolk, England, navigator 2nd Lt. Robert E. Femoyer’s actions on November 2, 1944 on a mission to Merseburg, showed the highest level of dedication to his crew. He performed a selfless act of bravery whilst being severely and fatally wounded, resulting in being awarded the Medal of Honor. Femoyer was assigned to 711th Bomb Squadron, 447th Bombardment Group, Eighth Air Force in September 1944 as a B-17 navigator. On November 2, 1944, his fifth mission and just days after his 23rd birthday, the 711th SQ attacked an oil refinery at Merseburg, near Leipzig, Germany. His B-17 was battered, hit several times by flak, and had two of the four engines severely damaged. Femoyer bled heavily from shrapnel wounds to his side and back. The B-17 quickly lost both height and speed and was forced to leave the formation, making it more vulnerable to attack from fighters, but Femoyer was not going let his crew members down. Deciding to turn for home, the pilot asked for a route. In response, Femoyer, determined to keep a clear head, refused all medical assistance before planning their route home. He insisted on being propped up so he could read his maps despite the injury to his body that made sitting extremely difficult. Guiding the pilot safely around heavy flak zones, they eventually reached the safety of the English coast, where then and only then, did Femoyer allow morphine and other medical aid to be administered. The pilot managed to guide the stricken aircraft home where upon landing at RAF Rattlesden, Femoyer was removed from his post and taken to hospital where he sadly died about an hour later. For his valor and courage he was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. Robert Femoyer was the only American navigator to have received the Medal of Honor during service in World War II.

I have sat there at the bench trying to determine what to do next... and I regret to say I just have been stalled out. I find myself staring at parts or staring at the computer. As a result, I think this one is headed for the maintenance depot (shelf of doom) until the next round of motivation strikes. In the meantime, I love watching the other builds move along (and crossing the finish line) so I'll be around... and if there is a sudden burst of progress I will continue to share. But the deadline is going to go whoooooshing by long before this one gets done.

If you do try this one, there is a very special little detail you can add (I'll put a picture at the end) Lights on leading edge the shields are inboard toward fuselage Landing gear stance - - Wraparound skirting on main leg - - smooth wheel cover If you do the United Airlines City of Renton markings then make sure to add this detail. When they brought her in after making her very last flight the pilots signed the plane in the left wheel well... - - some other details... Because you were working on the elevators - - fuselage door tail wheel (note the complex shape -- not inflated round) Wingtip lights (note two parts: red bulb faces forward and clear bulb projects outward) - Also a larger light slightly in and forward that bulges both above and below the wing Radial engine details for colors Inside cowl is white If the thin red line bordering the blue areas is what's making you hesitate from these markings, consider just leaving them off. The border is so thin/subtle that you don't really notice it at normal viewing of the real plane. And it didn't even have them when I photographed her a few years earlier (2012) Good luck -- I'll be watching this build with some excitement!

Good to see your project and watching that familiar plane come together. I got to see the final flight of the last airworthy 247D as it arrived in Seattle -- a special event to be sure. You've got everything closed up so I'm not sure if my photos of the exterior will be of use, but I hope some of these will be inspiring for you in the home stretch. (I can still hear these photos!) - - Space Needle poking up in the background I do have close-up pics of some of the external details -- if you'd like me to share here just let me know.

One thing to note is that the top surface is definitely from an OD donor, but has clearly there has been an attempt to strip some of the paint. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't also the case on the lower wing (probably done at the maintenance depot while the wing was off and waiting for a victim plane in need) Also, the outer wing does look somewhat less reflective than the inner panel next to it... although that whole underside looks dirty as hell. As I was scrutinizing the photo, I found myself drawn to the shadows of the nacelles -- especially the turbocharger on No. 1 and the wheel on No. 2. Actually, the more I look at the glare of the bright sky runs well under the near stabilizer. Most of that dirty color on the lower fuselage is actually just a reflection of the countryside. The closest shot I have of a NMF plane in flight at a similar angle is B-17G 44-85829 Yankee Lady flying over the Willow Run airfield (near Detroit) during the Gathering of Fortresses in 2010 (still the best birthday gift I ever gave myself!) But you can see that the entire wing surface reflects the ground and looks a flat dark tone even though we know it is shiny and clean. It's hard to compare the two because I was on the ground shooting up at a plane at a fairly low altitude and the weather was overcast, while the Bit O Lace shot was higher away from the ground and shot from a plane at roughly the same level. I guess I need to try to get some flights to do air-to-air pics of a Fortress in flight. So, to get back to the original question: Yes, the bottom of the outer wing would be gray as it is the same part as the OD upper section. I would try to scuff it up as though a maintenance crew had given it a workover. I might have some video showing BOL in flight that would provide some confirmation.

It's only lunchtime here 🍽️

Quick follow up I decided to clean up the botched vents from yesterday and make them work, rather than pinching a wing from the other kit. The difference is still noticeable between the near wing and the far wing. On the inside of the wing I glued two segments of sprue that will act as a baffle far enough inside the vents that it will be unseen. Because the sprue was already silver I just left it unpainted Then some soda can was glued into place with the natural metal side inward as this will be the part of the vent that is visible from the outside. The forward section is right on the sprue. I laid a strip of cyano gel right behind the vent hols to hold the soda can tight to the wing on that side. Here's what the vents look like with the soda can in place. A wise person might have painted the faded OD on the wing before this step... maybe next time.

Small update: After the disheartening fiasco with the vents on the left wing, I took a little more care with the other wing just to see if it was worth cutting open the slots at all... and I think the answer is yes. So far, only the vents for No.3 on the right wing have been done worked on. This was a good time to snap a pic to see the comparison between the opened slots and what is given in the kit. - There's more work to be done to get a nice deep vent appearance, but I didn't want to leave the last post giving the impression that the wings had gone to pot.

Can I vent here? Apparently, tonight's answer was no. I busted out my old Dremel and started grinding away at the undersides of the upper wing pieces in an attempt to open up the vent slots. The plastic was thin enough that I could see the slots when looking through the wings held up toward a light. When I started burring in from the outside it just made a mess. The Dremel tip slipped a couple of times making nice trenches in the wing surface. I figured I could patch that easy enough, but the shape of the holes was just hideous. I tried to smooth it with a jeweler's file but I think this may be in vain. I think last time I just did this with careful repetitive slices with the Xacto knife. - The good news is that I do have an extra wing left over from the abandoned kit when I removed the cheek blisters during the Ol' Scrapiron build. I guess that has become my "war weary" spare parts source. I feel pretty bad resorting to that, so I may spend a few more hours trying to get the holes squared up before I officially swap for the other wing.

OK, I drifted off on the shape of the hardstand. But you caused me to look harder at the planes and now I see something I overlooked. The adjacent hardstands have planes from different squadrons: XR for the 349th BS and LN for the 350th. Makes me wonder if the other sides have codes EP and LD for the other two squadrons or if the show will focus on the two squadrons. I'm actually surprised they aren't from a single squadron and they could just swap out AC letters to depict different planes. We'll see in a few months I guess.

To compete with the Heinkel 111Z

Unless he is building the super-secret Zwilling version with two fuselages and eight engines and just hasn't connected the wings yet. 😂

I just had not noticed that on the early models. Good to know. Also of note in the photo at that link: The info states the first flight was with "Eddie Alan" -- they of course mean Eddie Allen -- a good friend of mine is married to Eddie's granddaughter and their son was in school and scouts with my son. On one of our early campouts, he mentioned that he was interested in the large vinyl B-17 tails on my car. I told him I was pretty into B-17s (LOL) and he said their family liked B-17s as well, but they were particularly proud of the B-29. It wasn't until later that he revealed his connection to Eddie Allen. Pretty awesome. A few years ago I quietly did a digital painting of a B-29 and put it in the markings of 42-24579 that wore nose art as a tribute to Eddie Allen, and then surprised them with two 10x40" prints -- one for their home (although he may have displayed it at his office at Boeing) and one to present to his mother-in-law (Eddie's daughter) Of course, Eddie was Boeing's test pilot for many of their aircraft going back to the bi-plane days (including the B-17), but his heroics during the tragedy with the Superfortress have forever linked that plane with his history. Just for context, here's one of the 10x40 prints before framing

The window obviously opened all three panels as the wind deflector is well forward of the clear plexi panel. If the early Forts had solid left and right panels I guess I never noticed. Maybe it is just the stark difference in white vs. the dark interior, and it isn't as noticeable on an OD fuselage.

Looking at the pic of FK186 I notice there are no barrels in the ball turret (I can see the mounts, but no guns) and that the waist window is blocked except the center panel. Interesting details if you do that aircraft.

Speaking of hardstands and air base layouts, right around the time of the previous B-17 STGB I did a project that I thought was interesting. It started when a friend posted this aerial shot while flying a glider over the area that was the 447th BG's airfield at Rattlesden. The existing tower can be seen in the large brown field closest to the bottom of the image. Our archives do have a photo taken during the war, albeit from a different direction. If you look closely there are some B-17s waiting to take off at the upper right intersection of the runways, and the shadow of one just at the end of the runway (lower left). Also Fortresses still on some of the hardstands. I started by tracing out all the permanent landmarks on the map on separate layers. This was done before any skewing of the map so that it would be the best match for the 1944 locations of everything. By keeping my markings separate from the bw photo, I was able to fade the map away to show only the traced elements. Then I rotated and skewed the vintage map so that it aligned with the modern photo You can see that there is no artificial distortion, just rotated and skewed to be oriented to the same vantage point as the photo. Here is the modern photo overlayed with the traced elements from the 1944 shot of the base. Several structures still exist today as well as one of the runways that is still in operation by the Rattlesden Glider Club. I've indicated a few here. The point is that at Rattlesden (and several other airfields) these hardstands still exist and it would be unlikely that Hanks and Speilberg would just eyeball something they had access to. Any deviation from the real thing would certainly be on purpose and not out of ignorance. That was about as far as I went on this project (I lost many large files in a hard drive crash so I'm not sure if there was more) but it did inspire me to do an additional project that I'll share later when it applies to my Lucky Stahley Boy project.

I realized I hadn't posted these to my own site yet, and I know there will be a few here that will appreciate them too. Warning: Photo Heavy In August, I dropped in at the Erickson Collection in Madras, Oregon, because they are currently working on B-17G 44-85718 Thunderbird. Well, I guess when it comes out of maintenance (years!) it will have a new name because the nose art on both sides has been painted over. Anyway, it was a great opportunity to see well into areas that are normally out of sight. Bear in mind, that this Fortress had a post-military life before restoration as a warbird, so you'll have to decide how much you trust the colors. I do have shots of the Lacey Lady project which had no service life at all so the current restoration is revealing the original colors (under decades of graffiti (but that's for a different post) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Thunderbird happens to be one of the Fortresses I toured in Detroit during the 2010 Gathering of Fortresses (what a show that was!!!) so I have some interior shots as well. I'll post those when I get to that area in my build. Hope these will be helpful for reference purposes, or just as inspiration.

I am going to disagree with inchhighguy -- the stringers are not green in that photo. They only look darker because tighter curves reflect light differently than surfaces that are wide and relatively flat, but that is all unpainted metal. Look how reflective they are farther back in the fuselage. The only exception is that one arc of the section just forward of the right waist window (left on the photo) One interesting thing about the pic is that there are fluorescent shop lights hanging that were obviously turned off so the photography crew could control the light source for a beter result.

If it looks like a duct, and walks like a duct... Small wedges cut from a .040" sheet of Evergreen were glued into the wings to serve as the sidewalls of the wing ducting. - - Some shiny silver paint slathered between the wall pieces and the gap between -- even though that area was already silver plastic and there is no possible way that this section will be visible from the outside. Small sections cut from a soda can were used as the "roof" of the duct, remembering (this time) to attach such that the printed part is facing out and the natural metal is to the inside. After one attempt to attach a baffle on its thin edge (far side in photo below) I folded pieces so there was plenty of surface to glue. Most of what little will be seen is actually the unpainted aluminum of the soda can. Nice. - Louvre or leave it... Looking at this photo I had the feeling there was something missing. So I turned to my archives to see what was what on the real B-17s I have photographed... B-17F 42-29782 Boeing Bee Some sort of grating inboard of the No. 3 nacelle. - B-17G 44-83546 “Movie” Memphis Belle Both the vents between the nacelles look to have grating in there. B-17G 44-83575 Nine-O-Nine But the larger far inboard ones do not. (My friend Paul took this while I was aboard for a flight in 2011) B-17G 44-83735 Mary Alice IWM Duxford B-17G 44-83785 Shady Lady Shows the depth of the vent walls for the inboard openings pretty well, and how the vent "roof" does not go up into the top half of the wing. B-17G 44-83868 RAF Museum, London B-17G 44-85734 Liberty Belle B-17G 44-85740 Aluminum Overcast Uh-oh... When the references are TOO good, one has to consciously choose to ignore the detail or get back to work. I'm not going to try the honeycomb face (above) or the separate ducting internals (below) B-17G 44-85778 Miss Angela Palm Springs Air Museum B-17G 44-85829 Yankee Lady B-17G 44-85790 Lacey Lady Salem, Ore. Here's a look at that area when the skin isn't in the way... - - Boeing 307 Stratoliner NASM Udvar-Hazy facility Just out of curiosity, I dug up some shots I took of the Being Model 307 Stratoliner displayed at the Udvar-Hazy annex of the Smithsonian NASM. It shares the same wing as the B-17, but did not need ducts for commercial flights like its more combat-oriented cousin. Funny story about this particular aircraft. It was restored just a few miles north of me and I did not go see it flying when they were done the first time... I forget if it was the maiden flight or not, but on March 28, 2002, they ditched the brand-new restoration into Elliot Bay and had to the whole thing over again. I didn't have an opportunity to see it when they were done with Restoration Part Deux either. Then in 2015, I was all the way across the country for a 447th BG reunion in Washington DC (yes, we Washingtonians refer to that as "the other Washington") and finally had a chance to see it in person. Couldn't be bothered to drive 20 miles, but flying 2,300 miles is apparently OK.

I know this won't directly apply to your build, but might serve as some inspiration. The original Milton Caniff artwork of Miss Lace as displayed in the Mighty Eighth Museum in Savannah during our 447th BG reunion in 2013. - The color shot of the nose I posted earlier was pretty beat up, but this BW might be a good comparison between the artwork sent to Rattlesden for the plane and how it was eventually painted on the nose of 42-97976.