Flipping Airfix Swift!

[AnonymousAA72]

That seems to imply you can only learn modelling skills by making dodgy kits

I wasn't implying that. I was stating a fact....that is how I picked up my skills.

[vince14]

In other words, let's blame all the issues people seem to have in this thread on their (lack of) modelling skills, perseverance or expectations of what a good model kit should be.

To me it seems clear by now there are plenty of issues that Airfix could learn from. Being an apologist for them by saying it can all be solved doesn't change that.

Just drink the Kool-Aid and keep repeating the mantra 'Airfix are back! Airfix are great!'.

Edited September 1, 2015 by vince14

[lasermonkey]

The only way you learn anything is by attempting something you can't presently do and sticking with it until you can. It's down to the individual as to whether they want to do this or not, but with it comes a limited pool of kits that meet the criteria for a shake'n'bake.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Shane]

Lasermonkey says:

Someone mentioned that the Lancaster wing spars won't fit into the slots inside the wing if you don't remove the paint from the mating surfaces. That was my experience too, but should we not be removing the paint from mating surfaces as a matter of course? The cockpit floor/wing spar assembly on the new Beaufighter is a *really* tight fit into the fuselage. Again, making sure the paint is removed from the mating surfaces will help, as will dry-fitting. And it *does* fit!

Basic Modelling 101. It's not only necessary to ensure the kit fits correctly, it's good practice because the paint will reduce the effectiveness of whatever glue you use. And it's not something that's restricted to Airfix. Wingnuts Wings kits have been praised for their fit by some modellers, and others have said it's a bear to insert bulkeads etc. The common issue has almost always been paint that hadn't been removed from mating surfaces.

It's just a good, basic *gluing* skill which is just as relevant building a chair or a house as a plastic model

Shane

[Graham Boak]

How on earth is that "trolling"? That's a stupid term anyway but what I said is the truth. Anyone can glue a plastic kit together.............it's the finishing or putting a model in a diorama etc which is the creative part. Sticking resin or photoetch parts on or modifying isn't usually that hard or creative either. I've done the lot over the years like I bet most on here have.

The only way model companies have brought out better kits is because people have pointed out shortcomings on earlier kits. Most people aren't interested in making badly fitting, fiddly kits and there's nothing wrong with wanting something that's easy to build and accurate straight from the box. Most people haven't got the time to spend ages fixing up a dog of a kit.

No: what you say isn't "the truth". It's your opinion, based on your approach to modelling. As postings above make clear, other modellers can and do have other opinions. Either way, it is nonsense to claim that making a vacform, a resin, or most short run kits - or even many mainstream kits - is just a matter of gluing a few bits together. If nothing else, that's before looking at what needed to correct basic flaws in the accuracy of a kit, from whatever source, No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something that's easy to build and accurate straight from the box, but expecting it is another matter. Insisting on it immediately restricts you to a small subset of the options in front of you, and the types you can choose from. I suspect that "most people" are looking for (or at least welcome when they see it) a model of a particular type, perhaps in a particular role, If the kits available to them happen to be badly fitting, fiddly and inaccurate then simply gluing them together isn't going to help much. Modelling skills will.

I agree that, on average, models have improved over the years because (in part) of complaints/suggestions by the users, but not all changes have been good changes and we are a long way from perfection, assuming that we could agree on such.

[Mr T]

I have been following this thread with interest and it strikes me that Airfix are trying to be innovative and perhaps overambitious with design, that sometimes falls down in the execution. It seems they are trying to get in as much detail as possible whilst trying to keep a certain price point, hence manufacture in India where it is probably more difficult to keep tight QC. This can sometimes make their kits more challenging to build and I cannot blame people if they are unhappy with Airfix when they feel Airfix has not produced a kit that they expect. To save costs Airfix are making a lot of use of CADCAM and I suspect they are shortening their development cycle (costs again) at the expense of producing kits they might be less user friendly. My experience of building newer Airfix is based on 40plus years of kit building and therefore only relevant to me and time and changes to my health status have altered my perceptions and forced changes to how I build. As we all have own experiences of building kits we are all different types of builder and take on board what we wish. I do sometimes wish people would remember that we are not all the same.

[IanHx]

Credit where credit's due - printing the instructions in colour makes it much easier to see what is going on. No more scratching one's head trying to work out if you're looking at a heavy cross-hatched area for one colour or a lighter cross-hatched area for a different colour !!

Nice one, Airfix.

Now, am I supposed to glue the ailerons or leave them moveable ? Maybe just slather them in paint so they don't move regardless of whether they're supposed to or not...........

[AnonymousAA72]

That seems to imply you can only learn modelling skills by making dodgy kits and comes across as a bit patronising. I think you learn far better when you make kits that go together well and you actually enjoy making them. There's nothing more off putting than a dodgy kit that doesn't go together very well and that's bad for the hobby especially when it comes to attracting new younger modellers. I've made a few dodgy kits and I don't think I learned much by them if anything at all. The real skill isn't so much sticking the kit together but in the painting and finishing anyway. Also making things like dioramas. That's where the real modelling skills show...........not gluing a kit together.

Okay....... i build models because I have an interest in the real thing. I suspect quite a few on here are in it for much the same reason.

I build models of the aircraft type and era that interests me most. I have therefore built up quite a reference library of those subjects, so I know them reasonably well. I enjoy the research, and I aim to build models using these references.....Lately I have been treated to modern kits of the subjects I have been interested in for the last half a century. Of course that wasn't always the case....for example, before Fujimi saw fit to issue their RAF/FAA Phantoms and I wanted to build one, I could build Matchbox's effort ( and I did a few of those) and try to improve it and to try to bring it up to a reasonably accurate standard. I also cross kitted the rear end of that kit and grafted on the front end of an F4J kit ( not sure what). Also if you wanted an early Hunter or Attacker, you only had the Frog kits, with solid wheel wells and moulded pilot . To improve these kits you would have to open these areas up, box them in and detail as best you could. This was pre-resin and pre- Photo etch. To achieve any standard of accuracy i had to build up quite an extensive reference library as stated earlier, and know the subject.

This is how I gained my skills. These skills as modest as they may or not be, have meant that I now know the process of getting a box of pieces out and making the end product look like an aircraft I like. So it's just a little bit more than just "gluing a kit together". It's a process, that some seem to have forgotten or never knew. And, if you don't build the model correctly, regardless of the kit, painting and finishing skills won't matter a jot...

As for attracting younger modellers...well I was a younger modeller....once. I used wood glue to stick my first Airfix Spitfire IX together, in the mid 60's I hasten to add...my parents wouldn't let me have plastic glue in the house! Poor fitting kits, or my lack of skills then never put me off. I persevered, and my skills increased...I just wonder in these days of instant gratification, whether younger modellers could ever be bothered with the ground work, the research, or have the patience to learn these skills.....

[SeaVenom]

Okay....... i build models because I have an interest in the real thing. I suspect quite a few on here are in it for much the same reason.

I build models of the aircraft type and era that interests me most. I have therefore built up quite a reference library of those subjects, so I know them reasonably well. I enjoy the research, and I aim to build models using these references.....Lately I have been treated to modern kits of the subjects I have been interested in for the last half a century. Of course that wasn't always the case....for example, before Fujimi saw fit to issue their RAF/FAA Phantoms and I wanted to build one, I could build Matchbox's effort ( and I did a few of those) and try to improve it and to try to bring it up to a reasonably accurate standard. I also cross kitted the rear end of that kit and grafted on the front end of an F4J kit ( not sure what). Also if you wanted an early Hunter or Attacker, you only had the Frog kits, with solid wheel wells and moulded pilot . To improve these kits you would have to open these areas up, box them in and detail as best you could. This was pre-resin and pre- Photo etch. To achieve any standard of accuracy i had to build up quite an extensive reference library as stated earlier, and know the subject.

This is how I gained my skills. These skills as modest as they may or not be, have meant that I now know the process of getting a box of pieces out and making the end product look like an aircraft I like. So it's just a little bit more than just "gluing a kit together". It's a process, that some seem to have forgotten or never knew. And, if you don't build the model correctly, regardless of the kit, painting and finishing skills won't matter a jot...

As for attracting younger modellers...well I was a younger modeller....once. I used wood glue to stick my first Airfix Spitfire IX together, in the mid 60's I hasten to add...my parents wouldn't let me have plastic glue in the house! Poor fitting kits, or my lack of skills then never put me off. I persevered, and my skills increased...I just wonder in these days of instant gratification, whether younger modellers could ever be bothered with the ground work, the research, or have the patience to learn these skills.....

Even though I much prefer making kits that fly together easily I can appreciate the work people put into making old inaccurate kits better and I've done it myself in the past. In fact I like to read about people making old kits in magazines perhaps even more than someone putting a new Tamiya kit together but that doesn't mean I want to do that all the time. And I think most people are the same. Most people would prefer an easy enjoyable build to trying to make an inaccurate fiddly kit look good.

I'm certainly not saying that the new Airfix kits are terrible but some of them do have issues and I'd prefer to pay a bit more to have them right.

[SeaVenom]

No: what you say isn't "the truth". It's your opinion, based on your approach to modelling. As postings above make clear, other modellers can and do have other opinions. Either way, it is nonsense to claim that making a vacform, a resin, or most short run kits - or even many mainstream kits - is just a matter of gluing a few bits together. If nothing else, that's before looking at what needed to correct basic flaws in the accuracy of a kit, from whatever source, No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something that's easy to build and accurate straight from the box, but expecting it is another matter. Insisting on it immediately restricts you to a small subset of the options in front of you, and the types you can choose from. I suspect that "most people" are looking for (or at least welcome when they see it) a model of a particular type, perhaps in a particular role, If the kits available to them happen to be badly fitting, fiddly and inaccurate then simply gluing them together isn't going to help much. Modelling skills will.

I agree that, on average, models have improved over the years because (in part) of complaints/suggestions by the users, but not all changes have been good changes and we are a long way from perfection, assuming that we could agree on such.

I'm talking about styrene kits as I don't build resin or vacform now (even though I have done in the past) but how is what I say not the truth? Anyone can glue a kit together but it's the finishing that counts. I've accurised older dodgy kits but I don't think I really learned much more from them (if anything) than making new much better kits as there's always new techniques to try out on newer kits....and things like dioramas are where the real skills are.

[Homerlovesbeer]

Hmm some excellent points made in this thread. I've not had too many dramas so far with the 2 Airfix kits I've made so far; a new tool Zero and a mk1a Spitfire.

[AnonymousAA72]

I'm talking about styrene kits as I don't build resin or vacform now (even though I have done in the past) but how is what I say not the truth? Anyone can glue a kit together but it's the finishing that counts. I've accurised older dodgy kits but I don't think I really learned much more from them (if anything) than making new much better kits as there's always new techniques to try out on newer kits....and things like dioramas are where the real skills are.

I'm building a 15 foot long "diorama" at the moment.....with model trains running up and down it! It's not "where the real skills are", thats as daft a notion as I've heard!! Its just a DIFFERENT set of skills......

Edited September 2, 2015 by Bill Clark

[FZ6]

I was going to do a WIP for the Swift but then I got the Beaufighter but thought I'd share my technique for tackling some of the issues.

I deviated from the instructions to fit the air intake. I ended up glueing each half of the intake to its respectable fuselage half. I then filled the ejector pins and seam where they join. this works well to hide the seam

Here the fuselage halves can be seen dry fitted together. The engine face is a bit tricky to fit at this point as the intakes want to spring apart buy it van be done and clicks into place holding the intake halves together. I also removed a bit of material from the outside of the port intake

I also removed a bit of material from the inside of the Port wing as well where it meets the intake as there is a gap.

Here is the wing dry fitted to the fuselage there is a little bit more work to do but the gap is looking a lot better now.

Hope this helps.

By the way what colour are the intakes on the swift. I'm guessing either white or silver.

Regards,

Mark

[woodgnome]

Hi all.

I may have come late to this thread but here's my 5 penny's worth.

I've just finished my Swift and all I can say is that I must have been lucky as I had no problem with the swift and I consider myself to be no better than average when it comes to assembling kits.

If I had to say something 'bad' about the model then it would be that the recommended 2 grams nose weight is barely enough, I had to add a little more. (Wow, write the kit off for that).

Yes I have trouble with some kits but most of the trouble is with me, (I do an awful lot of modelling between 00:00 and 03:00 as I have trouble sleeping) when I take a fresh look the next day I can usually see where I've gone wrong.

To be honest I don't think there are many bad models that are new tooled kits from mainstream makers, I can't think of one I've made in the last few years. Mind, don't get me started on boxes marked new when what they mean is new to this years catalogue, the kit inside is 40 years old!

Please, please think carefully before you slag off a manufacturer as it can cause real problems, look what happened to Classic Airframes.

Enjoy your modelling.

P.K.

[Mike]

Instead of sniping at each other over who has the best attitude towards their hobby, where skills are learned and whether we should have to raise a tool to a kit, why don't we all just chill out and discuss how best to make the model fit together well. This hobby isn't about point-scoring to raise your own self-esteem (or it shouldn't be).

Sure it'd be nice if every kit fitted together perfectly out of the box, but they don't. Seldom have I built a kit that required NO fettling other than mould seams that need removing from fine parts... Whether that's my fault or the kit's design I neither know nor care. Adapt and overcome!

[Ace From Outer Space]

"Made in India".

Really? So was Joanna Lumley, so were my parents....

German tanks were great. But they were also over engineered, and were a pig to fix in the field. A bit like one or two Airfix kits eh?

There are much, much better ways of making your point.

Cheers,

Viv

[fatalbert]

Instead of sniping at each other over who has the best attitude towards their hobby, where skills are learned and whether we should have to raise a tool to a kit, why don't we all just chill out and discuss how best to make the model fit together well. This hobby isn't about point-scoring to raise your own self-esteem (or it shouldn't be).

Sure it'd be nice if every kit fitted together perfectly out of the box, but they don't. Seldom have I built a kit that required NO fettling other than mould seams that need removing from fine parts... Whether that's my fault or the kit's design I neither know nor care. Adapt and overcome!

Hear hear

[SeaVenom]

I'm building a 15 foot long "diorama" at the moment.....with model trains running up and down it! It's not "where the real skills are", thats as daft a notion as I've heard!! Its just a DIFFERENT set of skills......

Ok you're right it is a different set of skills but I think it's fair to say most people on here are pretty competent at making kits. I've been making them for decades like I'm sure most on here so I'm not going to learn anything new by sticking together a kit that needs quite a bit of work. I've done all that and modern tooling technology should have overcome that by now so we shouldn't be excusing things like bad fit or bad quality in newer kits. Life's too short to be fiddling around with kits that don't fit very well or need a lot of work.

[SeaVenom]

"Made in India".

Really? So was Joanna Lumley, so were my parents....

German tanks were great. But they were also over engineered, and were a pig to fix in the field. A bit like one or two Airfix kits eh?

There are much, much better ways of making your point.

Cheers,

Viv

I know India has had manufacturing for quite a while now but I think people are pointing out the 'made in India' thing maybe because they're not as experienced at making kits as say the Japanese or even Chinese (even though companies like Trumpeter have given us some inaccurate aircraft).

[bzn20]

Is this a thread about building a Swift?

[SeaVenom]

Instead of sniping at each other over who has the best attitude towards their hobby, where skills are learned and whether we should have to raise a tool to a kit, why don't we all just chill out and discuss how best to make the model fit together well. This hobby isn't about point-scoring to raise your own self-esteem (or it shouldn't be).

Sure it'd be nice if every kit fitted together perfectly out of the box, but they don't. Seldom have I built a kit that required NO fettling other than mould seams that need removing from fine parts... Whether that's my fault or the kit's design I neither know nor care. Adapt and overcome!

People chill out and discuss how best to make the model fit together well all the time on here. As I said I bet most if not all people on here have done the sanding, the cutting, the scribing and many other techniques but with todays technology most if not all of that should not be needed apart from sticking it together then painting it. we're talking about new supposedly state of the art kits.......not old Matchbox or Frog.

Just as people should be able to discuss what you said people should also be able to discuss flaws on new kits without people saying or implying you're only a real modeller if you want a challenge by improving your skills on a dodgy kit. Again I bet most people on here have done that for many years anyway. This is why I brought up dioramas. I'd rather have a model that goes together quickly so I have time to do other things like building dioramas to put it in and I've had enough dodgy kits to improve to last me a lifetime.

[SeaVenom]

Is this a thread about building a Swift?

It's all relevant to the OP's original post.

[STRAT'71]

Having built some of the Pitt Road kits, on which the parts fitted together perfectly, methinks Airfix could learn a lot from them.

Reminds me of Fender Guitars back in the 80s, when the Japanese copies were so superior.

[Paul Bradley]

Is this a thread about building a Swift?

No, this is Arguments. Swift Building is down the hall......

[Learstang]

No it isn't.

Regards,

Jason