Madalo Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 (edited) As part of a batch of kits I bought the ZTS Plastyk Lockheed Ventura PV-1 was included. As I understand it this is a re-box of the FROG kit (more well-known while re-boxed by Academy. I would like to build this one as a RAF, RAAF or other Commonwealth version for Europe or North Africa if possible. To do so I need decals (any suggestions?) but is there anything else I need to consider to adjust for it to represent a Ventura V (GR.V)? Edited June 27, 2022 by Madalo Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 The FROG Ventura, only issued by NOVO later has a nice Free French option: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/15780241688/in/photolist-q3rS5y-97RzSq modelldoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 The Academy Ventura was widely spoken of as a direct copy (not a reboxing) of the Frog, but a comparison of the runners proved this wrong. Like other early Academy kits, the words "inspired by Frog" seems more justified. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet133 Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 'Inspired' was limited to the idea of doing a 1/72 model of a PV-1. There is absolutely NO, repeat NO commonality between the parts of the FROG (and later 'Frogspawn') moulds and those that were put out by Academy. Completely different kits with no commonality at all with the parts. The big question is who originated the 'Academy' moulds. It has been suggested several times that the moulds originated from 'Sunny', a Japanese firm whose releases were mainly of car models. It was certainly sold in Japan in 'Sunny' boxes, I had one at one stage, since sold on to someone who wanted to pay over the top for a 'Rare' boxing. The most interesting thing was the images of 'future' releases they planned which in included a Lockheed 12 and other members of the Lockheed transport twins family. But 'Sunny' went bust and they never eventuated. Yes, others came to the party years later for the other Lockheed types.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madalo Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 I see. So, but is the origin of the ZTS Plastyk kit FROG then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACALAIN Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 You have 2 DK Decals sheet vor the Ventura, 7247, with RAAF deco, and 7248 with RAF, including MTO plane. Alain 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, Madalo said: I see. So, but is the origin of the ZTS Plastyk kit FROG then? It would very much appear to be. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zts-plastyk-s-103-lockheed-pv-1-ventura--1241438 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet133 Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 Yes the ZTS Plastyk boxing is the FROG kit. One of quite a few East European firms who reboxed ex FROG moulds in the last 30+ years. They are commonly referred to as 'Frogspawn' as I noted above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 I have this old FROG sheet that I bought back in the late 80's/early 90's. You can have it, if you want. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hornet133 said: There is absolutely NO, repeat NO commonality between the parts of the FROG (and later 'Frogspawn') moulds and those that were put out by Academy. Completely different kits with no commonality at all with the parts. The big question is who originated the 'Academy' moulds. It has been suggested several times that the moulds originated from 'Sunny', a Japanese firm whose releases were mainly of car models. It was certainly sold in Japan in 'Sunny' boxes, I had one at one stage, since sold on to someone who wanted to pay over the top for a 'Rare' boxing. The most interesting thing was the images of 'future' releases they planned which in included a Lockheed 12 and other members of the Lockheed transport twins family. But 'Sunny' went bust and they never eventuated. Yes, others came to the party years later for the other Lockheed types.. Looking at the cockpit furniture, turret, engines, wheel well box-in etc. suggests otherwise. A possibly slightly amended parts breakdown here and there would still fit in with "inspired by". Sunny was third or fourth-generation successor to Marusan, and acted as Japanese distributor for Academy/Minicraft during the 80s and 90s (and the emphasis here may well be on Minicraft), there are also e.g. boxings of one of the 1/48 F-111 and the ex-Hubley 1/24 RR Silver Cloud with Sunny stickers - but also dedicated Sunny boxings of the Super Étendard and Tu-22M. I'd bet a Starfix Zero however that the Super Et was tooled by Japanese company Suntek, who did a lot of the best Esci moulds, as it just looks like an Esci kit. But I do not want to lead this thread astray 🙂 The Lockheed 12 may well have been an unrealised Academy project, their 1988 catalogue was full of projects of which some were not released (e.g. SBD) and some only years later (F6F, SB2C, if I'm not mistaken). ------------------------------- BTW, I wouldn't refer to the Ventura as a Frog kit but only as Frog moulds as Hornet does, as only a pre-production batch was moulded by Frog which IIRC was not put on sale but was intended as review kits etc. Edited June 27, 2022 by tempestfan Adding the last sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 The differences between the PV-1 and Ventura V are probably small, things like the package guns and whether the 0.30 inch were swapped for 0.303 inch machine guns. Background, Britain ordered 300+375+200+550 model 37 from Lockheed, the first 675 did not have USAAF serials, the first 875 officially built as 188 mark I September 1941 to April 1942, 487 mark II April to September 1942 and 200 B-34 September to November 1942. All the RB-34 initially to the USAAF but 20 to the RAAF and 22 to the RNZAF starting in mid 1943. All the Ventura I and II came from these orders. In addition another 18 were built as RB-37 January to April 1943 with Wright instead of P&W engines, the remainder of this order for 550 mark III cancelled. All RB-37 retained in the US. On 1 December 1942 the USN took over responsibility for model 37 production, calling it the PV-1. Producing 1,600 December 1942 to May 1944. Unlike most other types the USN does not split production figures between for itself and for others. All Ventura V were from PV-1 production. It would seem an initial B-34 to PV-1 change was from 0.30 inch to 0.50 inch machine guns in the nose and dorsal turret. According to Air Arsenal North America the first PV-1 transferred was BuNo 33072, probably built in February 1943 and again using the BuNo the final transfers were for aircraft built in May 1944. USN contract NOa(s)-195 9 February 1943 (contract AC-31397 24 July 1942) for 600 aircraft, BuNos 29723 to 922 (200), 33067 to 466 (400) Contract NOa(s)-284/NXsa-16081 18 May 1943 for 288+412+300 aircraft, BuNos. 48652 to 939 (288), 34586 to 997 (412), 49360 to 659 (300), note the BuNo order. Not sure about the decal sheet, the national markings with a bar was RNZAF (and FAA) not RAAF as far as I am aware. A59-75 is reported as arriving 26 March 1944 ex USAAF 42-49383, rather than ex USN 49383. To 7 squadron on 31 May, but allotted for repairs the next day, then to be held in reserve, to 13 squadron 26 September but landed with wheels up on 2 October, temporary repairs by squadron then 4 Repair and Salvage Unit on 5 December, to 13 squadron 24 February 1945, sent for 240 hour inspection on 4 June, into category C store 2 October, to category E storage 1 October 1946, disposed of 6 September 1949. 7 Squadron code letters were KT, 13 squadron SF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 The FROG Grumman Avenger and the Academy Grumman Avenger are almost identical. Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, dogsbody said: The FROG Grumman Avenger and the Academy Grumman Avenger are almost identical. Chris Well, its kits of the same airplane, but within 15 secs I have spotted quite a big number of differences. Wings, rudder, sprue layout... /Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACALAIN Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, dogsbody said: The FROG Grumman Avenger and the Academy Grumman Avenger are almost identical. Chris A lot of "first serie" of Academy kits are engraved Frog models how where at the time good and correct kits. Not so detailed than now, bit not bad at all. Alain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 33 minutes ago, FinnAndersen said: Well, its kits of the same airplane, but within 15 secs I have spotted quite a big number of differences. Wings, rudder, sprue layout... /Finn A differing sprue layout and/or parts breakdown does not make a copy a "non-copy" - indeed, the area with the slots and the ailerons on the wings has been treated differently by Academy, but if you look closely at most other parts, they are straight copies of the Frog parts - engine, "Frogmen", wheel parts including that peculiar "retracted mains" moulding, FAA style observation blisters (not at all used by the USN) etc, even extending to the stand they reinstated, which Frog blocked in the mould for that final Type H boxing. The same applies to the Wildcat, and it has been said the P-40B is a Frog copy with some Hase P-40 cockpit parts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madalo Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 7 hours ago, dogsbody said: I have this old FROG sheet that I bought back in the late 80's/early 90's. You can have it, if you want. Chris Thanks but as I wrote I would prefer RAF or Commonwealth markings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 The old frog sheet that Dogsbody is offering includes a RAAF aircraft - the A59 serial number is a bit of a give-away. You could also try this: https://www.redroomodels.com/product/ventura-conversion-459-sqn-raaf-1-72/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 26 minutes ago, Madalo said: Thanks but as I wrote I would prefer RAF or Commonwealth markings. The RAAF is a Commonwealth air force. Here are some alternatives https://www.redroomodels.com/product/ventura-conversion-459-sqn-raaf-1-72/ Upgrade kit for the Academy kit but the Frog is so close it will fit pretty much exactly https://www.redroomodels.com/product/dk-decals-b-34-pv-1-ventura-in-raaf-service/ https://www.redroomodels.com/product/dk-decals-b-34-pv-1-ventura-raf-and-commonwealth-service/ DK decals as metioned above. 10 minutes ago, Admiral Puff said: You could also try this: snap! I think we have also a version of the 13 Sqn decals similar to the Frog sheet but better. PM me if that appeals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACALAIN Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Madalo said: Thanks but as I wrote I would prefer RAF or Commonwealth markings. DK Decals are still aviable at Modelimex shop. Alain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Two Commonwealth Venturas in this thread 459 Sqn (Australian) and 1575 Flt (RAF) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madalo Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Ed Russell said: Two Commonwealth Venturas in this thread 459 Sqn (Australian) and 1575 Flt (RAF) Thanks but none of those can be built OOTB from the ZTS Plastyk kit I think as one has a different turret and one has the desert engine filters. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, Madalo said: can be built OOTB from the ZTS Plastyk kit Aha - you didn't say that before. However it looks like there are some examples on each DK Decals sheet that will suit you even if you don't have the Boulton Paul turret. Both glazed and sold nose versions are present. You may pick up some building hints from the thread I quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Could you build a RCAF GR-V from that kit as still has the PV-1 turret but some cracking scheme such as the very striking Target Tug yellow and black scheme, gunnery trainers and Saddleback schemes, Aviaeology decals in Canada do some cracking decals for these, they are wonderful. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madalo Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) On 28/06/2022 at 00:36, Ed Russell said: The RAAF is a Commonwealth air force. Here are some alternatives https://www.redroomodels.com/product/ventura-conversion-459-sqn-raaf-1-72/ Upgrade kit for the Academy kit but the Frog is so close it will fit pretty much exactly https://www.redroomodels.com/product/dk-decals-b-34-pv-1-ventura-in-raaf-service/ https://www.redroomodels.com/product/dk-decals-b-34-pv-1-ventura-raf-and-commonwealth-service/ DK decals as metioned above. snap! I think we have also a version of the 13 Sqn decals similar to the Frog sheet but better. PM me if that appeals. Thanks, I don’t want to come across as ungrateful, but as I stated in my first post I would - if possible - depict an aircraft on the European or North African theatre. A59-75 SF-Q of 13 Sqn RAAF was as far as I understand it in the Pacific. Would I need to change the armament as Geoffrey suggests? Edited June 29, 2022 by Madalo Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 If you want minimum changes, you could do Venture GR.V JT894 W of 521 Squadron, used for met reconnaissance out of RAF Docking in 1944. USN 3-colour blue camouflage, black code W aft of the roundel, Martin turret, underwing drop tanks (not common on UK aircraft), no nose guns. Markings for it are on the DK sheet. I've seen a photo of it postwar awaiting scrapping. Most RAF Venturas had blisters on the sides of the cockpit canopy but I'm not sure whether the lend-lease GR.Vs did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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