R25 class Räumboot - building finally

[Steve D]

First, sorry for the radio silence, we've been away and also work on the house intervened in modelling activities.  I will get back to the BPB company MGB today and post some progress later.

 

Meanwhile, as is ever the case, while modelling, I'm also researching and I've spent many many hours looking into R-boots.  Considering the number of these vessels that were built and the various uses they were put to, there is very little information available and relatively few pictures.  In effect, the R-boats were very similar to the Fairmile B's in numbers and uses and when reading about coastal forces, while S-boats get all the headlines, R-boats are the ones most commonly fought as there were never very many S-boats.

 

So, they were the work-horse of the Kriegsmarine coastal navy and my collection of WW2 costal forces would not be complete without an example

 

At 35m in length, they are almost the same length as the S-boats (making a 1:48th scale model just under  29 inches in length, mixing units as ever, sorry.)

 

This time, as the research is a major challenge, I thought I'd start the thread early in the project and include progress on the drawings and challenges given I can't find a plan of the 110-t class to work from.

 

There were actually 7 classes of R-boot, the later classes serving into the 1950's, in particular the Capella-Klasse which has an armoured bridge and serving the the Polish navy among others after the war.  However, from 1940 the 110-t class seems to be the most prevalent and has a distinctive large windowed bridge that I like.  They had wooden decks over the forward 3/4'rs with steel decks at the stern.  They were used for mine laying, mine sweeping and coastal protection.   I believe this is R-38, the 110 t class boats were R25-40 and R151-217

 

 

 

This is R178

 

 

And again, without as much camouflage showing the extended stern, probably to aid mine-laying

 

 

A German website offers drawings of this class but they have not responded to my enquiries, it is 14 years old so perhaps they no longer offer the prints.  The illustration however may provide some guidance, even though it is a poor quality print

 

 

I've found drawing of the Capella Klasse boats one of which has lines that I hope I can adopt and modify to make a reasonable stab at the hull

 

 

There are obvious differences, but the overall hull lines look very similar and are probable good enough for this scale.  I have found an actual German technical drawing of this class, as well which has a second sheet of details that will help a lot

 

 

Lastly, the 3D model for R-41 (Aldebaran-Klasse), available in war thunder is on-line, below my own composite illustration of this 3d model which is a useful further reference point

 

 

Comparing all these, the location of the deck house don't align and the bow profile is much steeper on the 110-t class, but overall the shape is so similar that I think I can make a stab at it.  If anyone has more information of drawings, they would be most welcome.  I have two German language books on order , I'll post more information as it arrives and discuss progress with the drawing work as it progresses.  This one is much more an investigation project than normal, exciting

 

I also have over 30 photographs of the un-armoured bridge classes that I will post as I go so watch this space

 

Finally, two more 3D model illustrations I've found, first the 110-t class

 

 

And this, the 3D model used in the film  The 12th Man, R-56 was actually an Aldebaran-Klasse vessel of 125-t, but very similar.  Not sure how accurate that massive towing winch is, no pictures I have found show anything that large fitted, it would seem to clash with the main engines .....

 

 

So, hopefully this thread will grow to become a good reference for others looking into building these vessels as there is so little available at present.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[longshanks]

Another treat coming our way 

 

Kev

[JohnWS]

Can't wait to see how this build progresses, Steve.

 

Kev, please pass the popcorn.  

 

John

[Jochen Barett]

<Klugscheißermodus>

Let me donate an "ä" for the title.

 

"Raum" in German is a room ("Zimmer", a room in a house) or a space ("Platz", an area to put something) even in the sense ("Weltraum") of space (outer space).

("Raumpatrouille Orion" legendary "space patrol" scifi on German TV when it was still B&W)

 

"räumen" means to clear something (out of the way). Like you would clear away snow (and in worst case Räumen means broaching).

</Klugscheißermodus>

[Steve D]

32 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said:

Let me donate an "ä" for the title.

Updated Jochen, with my apologies for being lazy in the first instance 

[Jochen Barett]

I assume your keyboard is lacking the Umlaute, and in case you don't complain when I say the "th" ze German way or mix up "v" and "w", I vill not mention it again

[Steve D]

A little more information on the wartime R-boot classes taken from "Deutsche Minensuch-Und Räumboote" by Knut Schäfer with the 110t class highlighted

 

 

The following are examples of all but the last class

 

60t Boote - R8

 

 

115t Boote R17 (or possibly R20)

 

 

110t class R38

 

 

Aldebraran Class - R178

 

 

Capella Class R ? not sure the serial number of this picture but I'm including it as it is the best colourised image I have

 

 

I'll post more pictures of the 110t class later

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

I just noticed I made a typo on the table, the Alderbraran class did not have Rock Launchers, they were of course Rocket Launchers, things weren't quite that bad at that stage of the war....

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Steve, that Capella klass were really fast, 225 knots.   And as for the Alderbaran klass launching rocks, well it worked for the Romans about 2000 years ago. Some tactics never go out of fashion.

Seriously, that boat in the last photo, well, it's a lovely photo. Regards, Jeff.

[Dmitriy1967]

Let me also take a chair in the auditorium in anticipation of another wonderful performance on the creation of the ship from Steve.

 

[Steve D]

Thanks for the votes of support.  Remember, all I'm trying to do at this stage is work out which class the pictures I have accumulated belong to so they will help me in the drawings.

 

From what I can tell, these all belong to the 110t class

 

 

Note the built up stern roll-over and gun shield on the main deck, later in the war?.  I believe those are small mines on the railings at the stern...

 

Below is another nice shot showing sweeping gear on the aft deck

 

 

Not too clear but great shot of the bow section

 

 

And again, close up of the bow

 

 

Also a little blurry, but sweep gear on the aft deck, not the machine guns on posts on the bridge roof

 

 

This great shot is scanned from Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine 1935-1945 by Siegfried Breyer, valuable detail of the mid-ships section and the raised deck to the rear of the bridge (engine room roof).  More of those small mines (?)

 

 

Lastly the only colour shot I've found of the early vessels though this is the earlier 115t class as can be seen from the anchor mount, but useful for colours

 

 

Still studying and sorting pictures, will get some drawing started this coming week.  Much will be speculation, but I think I can get things close enough and all the mistakes will be mine so no need to share the blame with anyone...

 

Just been printing stuff for the MGB, nothing much to show on that thread

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[robgizlu]

Great Subject Steve - they look so similar to Fairmile Bs

Rob

[Steve D]

9 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Great Subject Steve - they look so similar to Fairmile Bs

Thanks Rob, not sure why they are so neglected as a subject, in particular the 110t class with the open wheel-house and timber deck (which I'm looking forward to re-producing) and dazzle camo.  I've spent over 40 hours searching, in multiple languages, for pictures, information, books, plans, models etc and there is very little out there.  What I've found I will post here so anyone following will have the benefit,

 

BTW those pointy hat things on the engine room roof are (I believe) small explosive buoys that were laid to protect minefields from sweeping, as shown on this drawing, far left labelled Abb 27

 

 

I also agree they are very similar to the B's, will be a great comparison picture with my earlier B when complete

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Steve D]

Bingo!

 

More searching, this time on a German naval forum turned up this outline drawing of R29

 

 

Which is a bad photograph of a plan but actually checks out pretty well with my comparison CAD sketch where I've superimposed and rescaled the various drawings I have.  This is close enough that I'm confident the lines will work though the keel rise at the stern and the rudder look wrong and I'll probably based the drawing on the other plans I have in this area.

 

The same forum also threw up the following pictures or boats out of the water, not published elsewhere.  Both of the right type of R-boot, the second is R38, featured in earlier pictures.  Note the first one has three rudders as with S-boats (seems some had this adaption) while others (R130 - R150) had Voith-Schneitigt-Antrieb rotary propellers which removed the need for rudders and is a very weird system all together, see drawing at the end of the post .

 

 

 

The Voith-Schneitigt-Antrieb propeller is a combined propeller and rudder system (think an early version of azimuthon, ie directional thrusters),  The blades (seen on the elevation to the right) rotate and feather to take the boat in different directions, even sideways (apparently)  Looks pretty complex and expensive for war-time to me, plenty of bits to break....

 

 

The search continues

 

Cheers

 

Steve 

[foeth]

Voith-Schneider?

 

 

[Steve D]

50 minutes ago, foeth said:

Voith-Schneider?

That's the one 

[Steve D]

This last collection of photographs show various R-boats on operations.  Useful for deck clutter if nothing else...

 

The first one shows what look like the Kriegsmarine equivalent of Dan Buoys.  These are either 60t or 115t boats as can be seen from the anchor in a starboard side hawse pipe not the open deck scuttle fitted to later boats

 

 

 

These are 110t boats in Holland I believe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just completing the main upload of images, working on the lines drawing, wil be back in a few days with progress

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Courageous]

A very interesting task there Steve. I'm sure that this build starts, it'll show the usual skill, looking forward to it. When the time comes it'll be interesting to see what scheme you choose.

 

Stuart

[Jochen Barett]

On 24/05/2022 at 16:17, Steve D said:

+++ The Voith-Schneider-Antrieb propeller is a combined propeller and rudder system (think an early version of azimuthon, ie directional thrusters),  The blades (seen on the elevation to the right) rotate and feather to take the boat in different directions, even sideways (apparently)  Looks pretty complex and expensive for war-time to me, plenty of bits to break...+++

a) Voith-Schneider Propeller is a very German thing (so forget about cost or fear of complexity!).

b) It's all about maneuverability (to the max).

 

The German version of the explanation https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voith-Schneider-Antrieb

is a tad better then the English one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclorotor#Ship_propulsion_and_control

 

Straight from the horse's mouth: https://voith.com/corp-en/drives-transmissions/voith-schneider-propeller-vsp.html

[Arjan]

Nice collection of pics Steve, I'm going to watch this thread with interest. The last batch of pics you posted were indeed made in Holland, the vessels are seen leaving the IJmuiden locks.

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

 

 

[Steve D]

Thanks for the support and encouragement.  I have so little reference material on Kriegsmarine vessels, certainly compared to many dozens of books on the RN, this is a voyage of discovery for me.  Please if anyone has any information , drawings or photographs I've not published, post them to this thread so it can become a resource for anyone following on that wishes to build one of these vessels.  I was attracted to the early boats (pre-Capella class) because they have more the appearance of a yacht that a war-ship, even down to wooden planked decks and large windows on the wheelhouse.

 

Having lots of fun adjusting Bezier curves on the lines right now, hope to post some drawing progress soon.  Using a rule that vessels evolve (in particular during wartime), when you line up the keel and sheer line on the Capella class with the 110t class (in black and red respectively below), using the break of the keel as a anchor point, you get very good alignment of the deck-houses and sheer line (I mean amazingly good) with the Capella class stretched on the bow and angled in the stern simplifying the roll-over stern addition on the 110t class.  This will allow me to make careful use of the detail drawings I have of the later class to fill in much of the detail.  Well, that 's the theory at least.  The dimensions are in inches as I work at 1:48th scale in inches, not 1:50th scale in meters, but this is basically a 1 m stretch at the stern and a 3 m stretch in the bow,  The width is 0.3m wider to accommodate the longer bow section with a similar curve, draft the same @ 1,5m

 

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Steve D]

11 hours ago, Courageous said:

it'll be interesting to see what scheme you choose.

Probably the Baltic dazzle, so distinctive....

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Francis Macnaughton]

Is this card kit of any help at all?   I don't know where you would get one though.

 

)

 

https://cfp.muerell.de/products/43

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Francis Macnaughton said:

s this card kit of any help at all?

Thanks Francis, I did see that but I think it is too small scale (1/250) to help, plus it is a model of the Aldebaran class not the 110t I'm building.  The cover art however is a good guide to the camo..

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Francis Macnaughton]

Hi Steve,

 

Another possible item of interest is the plan you will find in the collection at the Dreadnought Project:

 

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/KM_RA6-8_1943/

 

Also there is an article on German Motor Minsweepers at War, 1939-1945, by Pierre Hervieux in Warship 2002 - 2003

 

Francis

[stevehnz]

You've sure got my attention with this Steve, especially when the V-S drives were mentioned. I'm fairly familiar with the principle & it's use in harbour tugs, I was gob snacked to see it used in these. Bring it on.

Steve.