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Steve D

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Everything posted by Steve D

  1. The more I study the photographs the more I'm convinced that they did flush rivet the hull, I can't see any hint of rivets at all, they were focused on speed, so maybe this makes sense. However, the deck is another matter. Made a start on the deck plating today in 0.2mm or 8 thou in old money, Aluminium (4D sell it). With frames at 18" this means a lot of cross rivet lines, still steady progress. The plates are stuck down with contact adhesive. Once this has been rubbed down for painting (with very fine wire wool) only the hint of rivets will remain, but the distinctive lines of the frames on the deck will show through. 1:48th scale is the smallest scale that rivets really work at, but once you start, there is no turning back, its either none or all... I have no plate layout for the deck, but the shell expansion shows the butt lines on the Port and Starboard edge plates and I decided that they could use 8' wide plates on the deck as its relatively flat and joints are weaknesses. The butt lines are generally ~ 16' apart so 16' x 8' plates cut to shape might be the practice they used. Separating the butts on the centre plates by 2' from the port and starboard butts seems to work, anyway too late now to worry about it. Most of this detail will get lost when the equipment is added.... As an interesting aside, the two commercial plans show clean rear decks, but the admiralty GA clearly shows mounting bars for depth charges and mines as per the practice adopted on the Fairmile 'B' so I will add them to the model You'll see I've glued back the circle I cut from the deck for the Oerlikon. Grey Fox didn't mount an Oerlikon on the bow, it had a single 2pdr in a non-motorised mount. The pictures seem to show this flush on the deck so the piece went back in....
  2. The planking is complete now and filled with car body filler, very strong and easy to sand Stand in the background, here it is on the stand, lovely sweeping lines to that stern, it is 36" long There's still a little tidy up to do at the bow to build up the knuckle but the fact that there is more wood than filler in this shot says the lines worked out OK I cleaned it up and added a coat of varnish, as a firm base for the plating. If I was painting this, I'd do a lot more work on the finish, but the aluminium coves minor blemishes easily. Now I have a coupe of hours of cleaning to do in the workshop, so much dust... Still that's more of less the end of the wood stage on the project, it's mostly metalwork from here on. That stem plate really helps define the fine entry and isn't altered much by the sanding, well worth it. You can also see I've inserted the short docking keel brass plate towards the rear. This has come together quite quickly, lovely simple lines to plank, can't wait for the transformation into metal.....
  3. Go for it, 1:48th scale is the scale for ships, no question at all in my mind. Large enough to show gratuitous detail, small enough to stay married
  4. Quiet day at work so I was able to complete my re-drawing of the shell expansion drawing to 1:48th scale from the maritime Museum scan For those not familiar with these drawings they show each plate as it would be if flat. The SGB's had lapped joints fore and aft and between strakes which is why the centre 4 strakes are "In & out" not "in" then "out" as you would see on destroyers. The keel plates wrap around so both views show half the same plate, you can see the joints line up. The shaded area is doubling around the cooling water exhaust openings and the rectangles towards the stern are doubling for the propeller shaft brackets (propeller shaft opening shown as a white ellipse). The lines outside the shape are the deck joint locations port and starboard (also staggered). It looks like the forward portholes were 5.5 inch while the three to the rear were 6 inch, weird but that's what the drawing shows (more light for the officers I guess!). Note the porthole locations on each side are not identical. Because of the lapping, the plating needs to start at the stern deck line and work forward and down from there, should be fun. If you look carefully, none of the joints are on a frame line (you can't rivet plates joints where the frames are) and no frame gap has more than one joint. These are firm rules so if you don't have a shell expansion, you can work out a good approximation more or less with these rules once you know the frame spacing. The plates are mostly around 3-4 ft x 16-20 ft., again a good guide, handling limitation I will be including rivet detail with a wheel, even though the rivets will be barely noticeable, running the wheel creates a very slight waviness between frames evident on actual ships. Each plate was of course riveted to each frame. So many ship models (including some commercial hulls) only show rivets around the edge which is of course daft, the ship would simply fall apart I have this as an A3 .pdf file (or a .dxf of course) if anyone wants a copy
  5. Thanks John, yes I have that picture, quite different to the other 12 cwt gun pictures of preserved guns I've found. The picture below is all I have on the side view, probably good enough to scale something if no one has a better drawing. I'll check out the 6 pdr gun sheild though, good hint, thanks
  6. Point of assistance please. Grey Fox had a 12 pdr 12cwt QF gun in the Mark IX HA mounting. I've got loads of picture of these and Lambert's drawings but all the information I can find only includes a flat frontal shield. The photograph below clearly shows a shield with sides as per 4 inch practice. I can make it up by mixing the two concepts but I'd far rather base it on a drawing or a photograph. Do any of you have information that I could use to improve the end result
  7. Thanks for the reassurance, you never know if what you are saying is obvious to everyone, glad if the post can help others get into scratch building 100% correct, and to get the hull right, the frames have to be perfect. I tried a new technique this time in reducing the lines to allow for the planking thickness and it seems to have worked out as the planks went on quite easily As I said above, I'll just keep the detail going and hopefully encourage others to take the leap. One of my motivations in ship modelling is the working out how to make each component, that and the research is where my real interest lies. PLus I love ship models, always have, not sure why....
  8. I realised I hadn't spoken much about the planking so if you're interested, I'm using 2mm x 5mm planks in lime, a compromise between the curves and expediency. The 2mm lets them bend easily while still remaining enough meat for sanding. The frames are 3mm ply on the 5mm keel and each plank is pinned to each frame with 8mm brass pins, using a wonderful tool I'd forgotten I had, a pin pusher so my thumbs are not all swollen from hammer blows The lines for the propeller shafts and rudders where drilled in the frames and the picture below shows the tubes inserted but not glued yet. Its easier to sand the hull without them in place. Those blocks on the rudder shafts are to get the vertical alignment correct, The propeller shafts will have a larger casing covering the exposed end that will be turned from brass and filed to lay flush, after the plating is complete This picture shows the planking around the shafts. The stern shape will be made in solid Jelutung once the second side is complete and the deck edge sanded to match This picture shows the last two planks with a wedge made to hold the twist while the glue sets. You can also see that I've notched the keel for the turbine cooling water inlet which of course would have been a much easier job before I planked almost up to it . Beyond that is the slot to take the brass docking keel which I will glue in after sanding And finally, the bow block installed and roughly sanded to shape As you can appreciate, there's a lot more sanding and some (considerable) work needed with filler to get the final bow flare correct but overall this is a positive weekend's progress If this is all too much detail, please let me know, I wanted to record the build fully this time but I don't want to be boring
  9. Thanks, its always a challenge to display models, I thought the dry dock gave it scale and presence
  10. You're right, there is a lot of similarity between the D and the SGB, the more I look at Lambert's anatomy of the ship book, the more help I find supplementing the outline drawings I have. I appreciate your comments as ever, it counts more from other modellers
  11. The hull is a year's work on HMS Jason, a torpedo boat chaser from the 1890's I started it 20 years ago but got tired, it has immense amount of detail left to do (probably 2 years worth) and I just decided that it is a project for when I retire (if ever...). It's moved twice with us and has acquired a lot of dust. If it becomes a chore, then it's no longer a hobby. I switched to smaller projects that need smaller cases... Also, I was not happy with the bilge keel, now I think I could do better.... This is a better picture, its similar to the boat in the middle picture in the background (HMS Speedy) What you can see in this picture is the aluminium plating technique I will be using on the SGB, though with rivet detail. These torpedo boat destroyers were flush riveted (very slow and expensive to build) to get the most speed from triple expansion engines of the day. Once they put turbines in, they left the rivets exposed because the parasite drag of the rivet heads ceased to be material. The SGB is mostly normal rivets according to the shell expansion drawing notes Steve
  12. Warning, planking purists turn away now, this post may be upsetting... Basically, this planking will sit under the plating after being smoothed out with filler so there is little point in perfection and this is a way aways from that... The bow will be carved from a block of Jelutong, too hard to taper in to that tight. Still, what I've done will work with a lot of sanding, it just doesn't look too pretty at this stage I've also made the chart house which manages to combine angles in various impossible ways, this will be straight painted as the actual chart house was made of plywood with the roof covered in cloth (I can do this...) The observant will notice the rear deckhouse roof is lower, this is not due to subsidence, it was of course a stupid mistake. The line I'd taken was the top of a cowl vent casing, not the roof. The more I looked at it, the less sense it made so more careful examination of the drawings, in spite of the torpedo tubes being in the way) and the real line became apparent. 20 seconds in the band-saw and a new back was made, as ever I rework mistakes as I go along... That cylinder is the gun mounting base for the midships gun, the deck extends over it, that's just resting while I think about the framing and plating. If anyone has a picture of a gun platform like this one, I'd love to see the deck detail around the gun. On Grey Fox, this position mounted a 20mm Oerlikon
  13. Having three drawings is great, except when they don't agree... If you only have one drawing, that's the truth, if you have three, the truth gets confused. This is the case for the desk house arrangement, three quite distinctly different drawings. The two commercial plan show it narrower behind the torpedo tubes, the actual GA from the design office makes is clear that is is parallel to the rear, I went for that version. The heights are also different as are the slopes. The torpedo tubes really get in the way of this and none of the drawings have the sections you expect to clarify things. It seems to me that the rear upper deck and the funnel housing deck are parallel to the keel, but the lower forward deck and the bridge follow the deck rise (somewhat...) All of this makes a simple looking structure actually quite intricate, plus is has those curved bridge wings to add to the challenge that are right angles to the keel so sit on a slope to the deck and a different slope to the bridge floor. And of course, it didn't quite fit in the hole I'd so carefully made for it, ungrateful object... This is of course really a buck as it will be plated in aluminium, though for the bridge, I'll probably go for copper as it will be structural above the bridge floor. Forward chart house still to be added, but at least I have the actual dimensioned drawing of that from the Maritime Museum so no doubt there The reason to fit it into a hole is now apparent, there are curves everywhere in every direction and so making one that sits down on the deck (I know from experience) is just about impossible. This whole assembly will remain removable up to nearly the end, makes working on it so much easier, after a lot of sanding, it is a tight snug sliding fit now Hard to see but the upper surfaces are curved to the deck camber apart from the bridge floor and funnel housing roof which are flat, the wonders of working at this scale is you have the opportunity to care about such stuff No matter how careful, it will need some filler before plating, but its square, upright (where it needs to be), on the centre line and as good as I can get it... Interestingly, the sloping flanks of the funnel housing are shown on the builders GA as bosun's lockers, which makes more sense that the skylights shown on the War Thunder 3D model and the two random bolted openings shown on the model shipwright drawing You'll see I've cut out the engine room skylights, not sure how this will end up, but cutting them out later is a nightmare and I can always cover them up In case you are wondering, I'm still considering the planking. I've been debating double diagonal because the bow is so flared, but the wood I've bought is for normal fore and aft planking, more complex to taper but actually quicker.... The challenge is where to start....
  14. Quick update, the sheer strakes went in OK and the deck is now on But I managed to loose the alignment slightly on the opening, which is a bit of a (expletive replaced) shame Cleaned up now, the curves look OK (hard to sort) and I can sort the hole with the deck house. The hole in the forecastle is for the 20mm Oelikon mounting which sits below the deck level, thanks to G Stone for that detail, not shown on the other two drawings and I'd have missed it otherwise, you cannot have too many drawings.... I love the 3 dimensional curvature of a deck, its a really interesting hull form, sweeping up from a shallow stern to a raised bow, cool
  15. Any suggestions or questions, please go ahead Wow, that's tiny, rather you than me , still it has the advantage of not taking up so much room I guess, I won't say what my wife thinks of all the cases for fear of being banned
  16. Peer away Steve, I'm already asking plenty of questions myself so if I can help in any way, that's great
  17. I've had that Model Shipwright plan for 20+ years, its always been on my mind to do, will make a nice companion to the Fairmile Cheers, John, any comments most welcome Shapeways offer this service and the propellers are quite distinctive so its a good one to try
  18. Thanks Rob, speed is deceptive at this stage, but I agree, the frames went together quite quickly. I just hope this time my drawings are OK, less ability to fudge things with plank on frame
  19. Finally, I've got some time to start the post on my next scratch build, a 1:48th scale Denny SGB, actually S304 Grey Fox, IWM picture below, at 145ft, the model will be ~36 inches long in old money. Warning, I expect this build to take a year or so. This time I really will try to make everything (apart from the split-pin stanchions), but some complex components will be 3d printed, though to my own drawings. I'm also going to have a go at the propellers, printed in wax and then cast, may as well go for it... My aim is to produce full drawings, components and etchings so others could build the same model if they wish. I will document it all here, mistakes and all I have two professional plans, one available on line by G Stone in 1:48th scale and one from model shipwright no 87 (March 1994) But as I do with all major builds, I also contacted the maritime Museum in Greenwich (actually the old brass foundry in Woolwich) who have the archive of all naval vessels since the 18th century. They claim to have an example of every type that served in the navy and they have a number of drawings of SGB's. I chose three drawings of SGB303 (the sister of S304), which include the GA and the shell expansion, a vital piece of the puzzle for plated models. At 36 inches long, the model is too large for my block infill so I'm going to plank it on frames and then plate the outside with aluminium sheet to the shell expansion drawing, rivets included. Shell expansions show stuff other drawings omit, like the water intake and outlet for instance. A section of the drawing is shown below and on it you can see the inlet is rectangular and on the centre line, I've not seen that detail before. This section also shows the layout of the outlet with the doubler plate etc. In other parts of the drawing is it clear that the portholes on port and starboard where not in the same place, again, where else could you find that sort of detail? From a scan of the lines (actually from the model shipwright drawing which looks a higher quality piece of work) I prepared a cutting drawing of the keel and frames. The frames have been set back by 2mm to allow for the planking. The keel is 5mm ply but the stem and the docking keel will be made of brass, inset in the ply as the former is sharp and the latter much thinner than the ply (poor quality copy below I started yesterday by cutting out the keel and setting in the brass, seen below on a temporary building board to keep everything straight. Keeping hulls straight is a real challenge as the planking can frames can easily end up twisted (I know this from experience) so I make a lot of fuss at this stage, sometimes it pays off... The hull will have a large slot in the deck for the deck-house. I'm not going to build a working model, but this could easily be done and then the slot would allow access to the motors battery etc. For me is helps to keep the deck house separate until very late in the build, then is will just slot in The frames were printed and mounted to 3 mm ply for cutting out Much later today... More timber to keep things straight. I've had to slot the build board as the boat does not have an exposed keel apart from the small docking keel at the back. I'll be planking it upside down, more detail later. The platform at the back holds the alignment holes for the rudders, you can also see the holes for the prop shafts (5" dia) After much fettling, I glued it up, tape is holding everything straight (I have a phobia about straightness....) So, we're off and running, sheer strakes going in tomorrow
  20. Thanks, I didn't know about Birr Castle but I have seen the telescope mentioned on TV, I'll add it to the list. I believe this is the man himself standing on board by the steam value that was the only speed control, it must have been one heck of a ride... I read that they took it to France for an exhibition and the channel crossing nearly finished them off, it was no sea boat...
  21. Respect from another scratchbuilder, very clean finish, excellent job Steve
  22. Many thanks Dave, I'm glad it made you smile. Of the models I'm made, this one gives me the most pleasure to see every day Steve
  23. You have to show me how you did that emoji thing... Thanks, I sincerely appreciate all your comments Steve
  24. Well, I had a few failed attempts first, like everything I make, we are the sum of our mistakes as they say... Actually, the hull was the challenge, its shape is so complex with a hollow stern to help keep the bow in the water. Just imagine tearing across the Solent in that launch in the 30's to catch a seaplane to Le Tuoquet for lunch - wonderful
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