Meatbox8 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Announced today. Qatar is to buy 24 Typhoons. Potentially very good news for all involved in the production of the type. Does anyone know whether these are new-builds or drawn from RAF stocks? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This in addition to 36 F-15QA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Does that deal also involves pilots and ground crew training? Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 So Qatar has ordered 24 Rafales a couple years ago, with aircrafts being built and pilots trained at the moment for delivery in 2018. Then they ordered 36 F-15Es in June of this year. Now they are also ordering 24 Typhoons ? Sounds like a lot of aircrafts for a country that small, I understand that Qatar is today at the centre of a very hot area (and of a diplomatic crisis) but going from the current force of 12 Mirage 2000 and 6 Alpha Jets to a total of 80 combat aircrafts is not something seen very often 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Wonder how much commonality of munitions there will be between the three types? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Here is a link to the BAE Systems website https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/4994a434-9bbf-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946 Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 @Giorgio N as one say, never put all eggs in the same basket. Just in case you get into troubles with one supplier of your systems, you have two more options (also good for negotiating follow up-orders). But yeah, it's amazing how they are building up that quickly. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, Max Headroom said: Here is a link to the BAE Systems website https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/4994a434-9bbf-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946 Trevor Oh no it isn't. takes me to the FT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, Graham T said: Oh no it isn't. takes me to the FT! also requires you to have a subscription. Here is the news from the beeb http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41305114 Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Soz! When I googled it, I was sucked into the FT site without a subscription. Weird. Trevor News-Print Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Hello Qatar has a large US military base on its territory. I understand it is also a host to some Turkish troops, share large natural gas field with Iran and, for the last few months at least, has rather strained relations with other Arab countries. Still, its latest military purchases look more like a response to Saudi Arabia's buying spree than a fulfillment of genuine defence requirements. I am still wondering about pilots and maintenance crew for such a diverse flying circus. Qatar will, if it has not done that already, have to resort to hiring mercenaries. Otherwise all this hardware will just eat away storage space. Just my thoughts. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The spares store is going to be huge. I can't help thinking of Nigeria in this case. They would spend vast amounts of money on hardware and then back-up would be non existent. I have a particular interest in the Jaguar. They had on average 700 hours on the clock before being put to pasture. The Indians rejected them as a source of spares because they were that bad. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is less about capability and/or showing off and more about buying 'friends' and influence. In essence, if one, or even two, of the three suppliers decides that they'll be taking Saudi Arabia's side in a dispute and will suspend the provision of spare parts, etc, then the chances are that at least one of the fleets can be kept flying. If - hypothetically speaking - they have an operational force of 50% of each of the three aircraft ( so 18 F-15 and 12 each of the Typhoon and Rafale) with the rest being in readiness/maintenance/etc, then a short-term embargo on spares supplies will have relatively little effect. Conversely suppliers - US, France, UK, Italy, Germany, Spain - all have an interest in ensuring that any future disputes between Qatar and its neighbouring Gulf states/Saudi are resolved swiftly. When three of the UN Permanent 5 members are interested in your continued purchasing of their kit/spares/expertise, even to a relatively limited degree in terms of numbers of items of kit, that's always handy if your neighbours fall out with you... On the flip side, stand by for the stories in Flight, etc, complaining that there's been a small but notable departure of RAF groundcrew (and perhaps a few pilots) who've decided that the tax-free, twice as much as you're currently earning remuneration is really quite an attractive way of heading into an early retirement, leaving the RAF short of vital personnel, coupled with reports that the RAF's aircraft are missing some crucial widget because these have all, for that moment in time, gone to Qatar... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Reminds me a bit of Lybia under Quadafi... Lots and lots of Equippment but poorly used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This was the original Qatari request for F-15QA aircraft. Although the original forecast has been reduced by half, there's a substantial training and support package included: http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/qatar_16-58.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 3 hours ago, exdraken said: Reminds me a bit of Lybia under Quadafi... Lots and lots of Equippment but poorly used... Don't underestimate the Qataris... They have a leadership which is ambitious (hence the C-17 buy) and - a cynic might say possibly because so many of their leaders and officers pass through the UK education and/or military training system they've taken a shine to the phrase 'punching above our weight' - want to be regional players. As part of this, their political and military leadership has spotted that the Saudis in particular have a reputation for being at the 'all the gear, no idea' end of the spectrum and this erodes their credibility. So they've tried to be different, and if not there completely, aren't doing badly. Various events such as Op Unified Protector (Ellamy to us) and exercises with the US, France and the UK have left their hosts and western partners favourably impressed in the main, and the indicator that they're getting decent plaudits is that the Saudis were most discomfited to discover that while they turned up as the reputed 'big boys' [lots of shiny kit, etc] they were consistently and significantly out-performed by the Qataris. To be fair, I would say that there has been a strand of thinking within the RSAF that there's a section of their pilot cadre which has no business being in the cockpit of a fast jet and that they're there because of family status/connections, and the shock of coming in second best to the Qataris (and the UAE) has seen a move towards a more focused/professional approach (with, of course, the events in Yemen adding further impetus). The Qataris aren't in the same league as the Libyan forces were - and remember that part of that was down to leadership fears that the Air Force was dangerous because it could bomb the Presidential palace, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Don't most (if not all) Arab Air Forces come with a generous helping of politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 So that's the Saudis, Omanis, Kuwaitis and now Qataris who all have or have ordered Typhoon in the region. Most are BAE systems orders, although I think the Kuwait order was Italian led. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 With the Americans and Canadians at loggerheads over the C series, might we see a renewed Canadian interest in Typhoon? I hope May and co put the idea forward yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 So it sounds like these aircraft will be separate new-build rather than drawn off the UK order like the Saudi ones. Good news for Brough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Britman said: With the Americans and Canadians at loggerheads over the C series, might we see a renewed Canadian interest in Typhoon? I hope May and co put the idea forward yesterday. I must say buying a few F-18Es as an interim solution seems an expensive way of doing things. I wonder if Trudeau has painted himself in to a corner with his election pledge not to buy F-35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Good point about supply and support leverage, XV107. It works both ways and I did not think about that. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 13 hours ago, Meatbox8 said: I must say buying a few F-18Es as an interim solution seems an expensive way of doing things. I wonder if Trudeau has painted himself in to a corner with his election pledge not to buy F-35. Strictly speaking, he made a commitment to reopen the fighter competition; the F-35 could still win. The plan went a bit awry when the RCAF pointed out that their legacy Hornets won't get to the in service date for the new fighter type, so the idea of the interim package was born. There's a Canadian chap posting over on Arrse [the British Army Rumour Service for the uninitiated] ('Terminal') who knows his stuff on this, and if you have time, his posts are worth a read. In essence, though, going for an interim fighter pretty much meant that the answer was the Super Hornet. Then, the dispute with Boeing erupted, and now... Typhoon would appear to be the ideal fit; I have had this view expressed by two RCAF officers, both of whom then added words to the effect of 'of course, as our procurement record since the 1950s shows, the fact that it's just the airplane for the job means it has no chance of being selected, eh?' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Is any of the support equipment common between the Super Hornet and legacy Hornets? I would imagine most (if not all) munitions would be common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Just curious here and not trying to step on anyones toes. But did anyone stop to think that maybe just maybe they're going to buy these wait till they're all delivered, and then Re-sell them to Iran ? I mean they're having trouble with the other Gulf nations because of support for Terrorism? They're supporting the same groups Iran is materially & financially? Well its food for thought considering its probably pretty hard for the Iranians to get certain types of equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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