The EDSG files #1: 1/72 Sea Venom FAW.21

[rob85]

Ummmm yes she is eeeerrrrrr beautiful..... Graceful I suppose is her own special way (it's a bit like when someone shows you their baby which you know is ugly but you can't tell them that)

I jest, the gannet (could have had s better name too, to be fair) has an ungainly presence about her, intriguing almost.... I actually like it.... Bit like the albacore or barracuda.....they look odd but don't care what you think, they have a job to do.... It's all about the confidence!!

Oh and nice work sorting the seats out!

Rob

Edited July 29, 2016 by rob85

[TheBaron]

Having a relax in the sun with some light BM action. Those seats look great sprayed up. Bravo!

Cheers John

Ummmm yes she is eeeerrrrrr beautiful..... Graceful I suppose is her own special way (it's a bit like when someone shows you their baby which you know is ugly but you can't tell them that)

I jest, the gannet (could have had s better name too, to be fair) has an ungainly presence about her, intriguing almost.... I actually like it.... Bit like the albacore or barracuda.....they look odd but don't care what you think, they have a job to do.... It's all about the confidence!!

Rob

Never slag off the aircraft that tells you what direction the enemy's coming from

The Albacore however has something grim about its appearance IMHO, as if it's a bit sullen about being made to go up there. All completely subjective on my part of course....

[Martian]

That looks better!

Martin

[TheBaron]

That looks better!

Martin

Martin: Thanks for that sir.

Progress has been slow this weekend so only a few periods here and there in which to focus on Her Venomship. Firstly the newly-slenderized bang seats received some painterly attentions:

I've had to combine references for shape and colour so hope they look close enough in appearance to past muster:

I'd talked earlier about trying a new approach to painting black cockpits (black washes over dark grey ground), and on this outing I'm rather convinced (at least at 1/72):

To my eye it gives the right contemporary kind of scuff/fade sensibility of operational use. I'm conscious of not being overly-influenced in such judgements by looking at photos of historical aircraft that may have been exposed to decay/weathering for several decades after leaving operational service:

As near as I can judge the radar boxes on the observer's side are about as accurate as I can make them in terms of shape and size. The radar dials themselves on the lower unit are leftovers from an old PE RAF bomb-rack, the detailing on the top console above it is the left hand side of the IP that I had to cut off to get the bloody panel to fit in the first place, so at least that part wasn't wasted.

Does this remind anyone else of a contentedly feeding Basking shark?

I bored out the rear exhaust by about 1mm or so all the way around with the Dremelclone, as the existing lip was too thick. The plan is to install a newly-minted nozzle (plastic tube with inner walls thinned out) something like this:

Did you know every Sea Venom had a Tibetan mandala inside it for luck? It's the Ghost in the machine:

^{Source: Mike Forsberg: http://www.pbase.com/mikeforsberg/image/155182707}

The idea is to have that exhaust nozzle lead the eye back to a circular disk with some representational rear-engine 'business' on it. But you know that? Looking at this graphic below reminds me that the nozzle is conic, not cylindrical:

Botherations. A rethink is needed now on how to make a hollow conical form of the right diameter at each end. Don't anyone say 'geometry': I was excluded from the CSE maths class due to lack of...well...any mathematical ability whatsoever. If I get an MRI scan whilst doing a maths problem, that region of my brain will look like N.Korea from space at night. Not a glimmer. I can only do modelling because they give you the numbers already on the sprue and the paintpots are numbered also.

Err. Anyway. That's it for the weekend. I can't close the fuselage until I get that last issue resolved but once I do I hope the pace to pick up a bit

Enjoy your evening,

Tony

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Tony

Wow you have been through the mill a bit there fella with the seats and PE, but what a fantastic save, great work. The seats and cockpit look smashing now. With the Airwaves PE, I use it in some builds but, I have learnt to only use part of the Etch, this way you can get away with it, used part on my Blenheim 1 and Fulmar builds and they have turned out well (Blenheim is just about to be finished) then I will do more on the Meteor and Bird class loco honest !!! Meteor is ready for the dark green camouflage to be added but bear with me I am a hairy stick painter.

Keep up the fabulous work.

All the best
Chris

[The Spadgent]

Top notch work Tony, that pit /seats combo looks the bomb, very nicely done.

The black wash over grey works really well. Good luck with that engine. John

[perdu]

Pen cap?

Cut a cap hacked crudely, oops I mean skilfully away to slip inside the tail end

A felt tip/fibre tip pen might be exactly what you need for that

A modelling knife with a fine tip can make the rear parallel inner section quite easily

The office ain't too dusty neither I like this one lots

[TheBaron]

Hi Tony

Wow you have been through the mill a bit there fella with the seats and PE, but what a fantastic save, great work. The seats and cockpit look smashing now. With the Airwaves PE, I use it in some builds but, I have learnt to only use part of the Etch, this way you can get away with it, used part on my Blenheim 1 and Fulmar builds and they have turned out well (Blenheim is just about to be finished) then I will do more on the Meteor and Bird class loco honest !!! Meteor is ready for the dark green camouflage to be added but bear with me I am a hairy stick painter.

Keep up the fabulous work.

All the best

Chris

Chris. Thanks! You're right about the hit or miss nature of the Airwaves stuff; I'm starting to get more relaxed about leaving bits out that seem just plain wrong or so small that they'll just break off at the first breeze. Don't apologize about the hairy stick fella - da Vinci used one and he didn't turn out too bad

Good luck with the loco and Meatbox!

Top notch work Tony, that pit /seats combo looks the bomb, very nicely done.

The black wash over grey works really well. Good luck with that engine. John

From the Grand Vizier of Seatbeltery I take that as high praise indeed. Shucks...

Pen cap?

Cut a cap hacked crudely, oops I mean skilfully away to slip inside the tail end

A felt tip/fibre tip pen might be exactly what you need for that

A modelling knife with a fine tip can make the rear parallel inner section quite easily

The office ain't too dusty neither I like this one lots

Perdu: Aha! I like your thinking sir. I spent an hour today going through the kids' felt-tip boxes and all the kitchen drawers to no avail when a possible solution appeared in the form of a booze related item.

I used to make my own jet fuel wine and wondered whether one of the valves from an old siphon I used to use for racking off the good stuff from the lees might answer. Out with the saw and two sliced fingers later I have the beginnings of a Ghost vent:

The other disk-like item is the end I cut off of one of the missus' rolls of posh thread she uses for making hats. She doesn't know yet so if you don't see any posts for a few days....

The walls of the erstwhile vent are very thick and made of that slippery vinyl species of plastic, so I don't know how amenable it'll be to boring out. That's tomorrow evening spoken for!

Off to watch some old 'Fast Show' episodes with the lads. Fat Sweaty Coppers - brilliant....

You ain't seen me - right?

Tony

[Tomoshenko]

Good work Tony. Glad to see you're overcoming the Ikea flatpack PE build/fit issues. Like the serendipitous exhaust solution. See, it pays to drink alcohol...

[TheBaron]

Good work Tony. Glad to see you're overcoming the Ikea flatpack PE build/fit issues. Like the serendipitous exhaust solution. See, it pays to drink alcohol...

Tomo: Doesn't it just? I must have been mis-spending part of my youth correctly then Never got the hang of poker though....

Well, the last 24 hours have seen exhaustive activity.... ...on the exhaust of course!...

The amputated siphon valve approach appears to have paid off. TBH I was a little dubious about the hard slippery plastic those things are made of, but in the end, the various boring and rasping bits for Dremelclone came into their own and it was about 10 minutes work to hollow out the inner walls to something more in keeping with the scale:

Persisting with the delusion that any engine at all will be visible, operating on the 'just in case' principle I mocked up some representative detail out of the cotton reel end I cut down last night, and added some plasticard backing. It's hardly a detailed Ghost but will suffice:

It always amazes me how much a shot of primer shows up how rough the surfaces are, so it was out with the 2500 grit before paint:

It doesn't really show but I blued and browned it a bit in places with some vigorous dry brushing before misting on a very thin coat of Alclad aluminium. I really must buy some other metals as they give a lovely effect done right.

Whilst that was all drying off I paid some attention to the cockpit. I realize now I'm going to have to build some kind of a bulkhead (firewall?) just behind the crew seats. There's a bit of of PE that gives and upper surface:

..but I'm dubious about the kind of detail the PE instructions give about building boxes. It's pretty primitive and as I intend this being visible due to the raised canopy ( I sprung for the Falcon FAA set by the way, they look the business..), I'm going to have to stick in some boxes and wires of my own. I've no clear reference shots of this region for the FAW.21 so unless anything shows up I'm going to have to bluff it out by referring to some close-ups of a similar region I took whilst sitting in the T.22 Vamp at Yeovilton. I don't like inventing too freely in this way but don't have much choice at present.

With the paint dry it was time for a final dry-fit of the wine-siphon power plant:

I've had to sit the disc back from the nozzle due to the internal diameter of the fuselage at that frame. In all honesty I don't think anyone will see the intervening gap if they to try a peek inside. What do you think?

And that's the state of play so far. I doubt I'll get much more done today - if I can grab an hour or so tomorrow I want to try and build that cockpit firewall and get the fuselage closed up if I can. It seems to have dragged on a bit the last few days, mainly due to wondering how to handle the exhaust but now that's done I feel one hurdle has been dealt with. Scribing looms in the not-too-distant future...

Good evening all,

Tony

[Navy Bird]

I think these are from an Australian Sea Venom, but the equipment may be similar. Steve would know for sure.

It's crammed pretty solid with kit under the fixed rear canopy.

Cheers,

Bill

[amblypygid]

That exhaust looks the business to me. No gap noticeable.

[TheBaron]

Bill: That's great of you to post those. That's just the kind of detail I'm lacking. From my digging around I understand that the FAW.21 and the Aussie FAW.53 were substantially similar in many (but by no means all) respects, so the rear office electronics and radio kit could well be common enough to both that I'd get away with generic detailing of the kind shown in your photos. I'm obliged to you for that Bill.

Chris: Thanks for your kind words. Looking at that last photo again I'm sure the rear of the pipe could use a little further thinning of the inner diameter to bring it down to scale a bit better.

Just before I go tonight I wanted to share this grand photo:

My apologies to the original poster but I found this some time ago and don't remember whereabouts on the web. This just seems such a fantastic image, more like an epic painting than a photo in it's evocation of a moment. If you hold the picture up to your ear you can hear the sea...or the Avons...

[perdu]

Works nicely for me mi'honour

That internal detail WILL show when some bod decides to get involved

[CedB]

Finally I have a proper keyboard... great work Tony - that exhaust looks really good and the internals are very smart. Good job that man!

[NAVY870]

I think these are from an Australian Sea Venom, but the equipment may be similar. Steve would know for sure.

It's crammed pretty solid with kit under the fixed rear canopy.

Cheers,

Bill

Same for the 21 22 and 53

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Just before I go tonight I wanted to share this grand photo:

My apologies to the original poster but I found this some time ago and don't remember whereabouts on the web. This just seems such a fantastic image, more like an epic painting than a photo in it's evocation of a moment. If you hold the picture up to your ear you can hear the sea...or the Avons...

I think it's an optical illusion - at least I hope so.... He appears to be venting fuel on deck, which would be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit! Nice pic, though.

[TheBaron]

Works nicely for me mi'honour

That internal detail WILL show when some bod decides to get involved

Perdu: Thanks. All it takes is a stray shaft of sunlight down that exhaust and the whole facade crumbles!

Finally I have a proper keyboard... great work Tony - that exhaust looks really good and the internals are very smart. Good job that man!

Ced: Cheers. You'll probably have a squadron of Beauforts done but the time I've this one ready

Same for the 21 22 and 53

Steve:Thanks for the confirmation. I feel a guardian angel hovering over this build!

I think it's an optical illusion - at least I hope so.... He appears to be venting fuel on deck, which would be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit! Nice pic, though.

The starboard wing plume? Yes, I wondered about that as well but in my ignorance only assumed it was some other vent for the catapult blowing backwards. Fuel would be another matter....

I've nothing to report Venom-wise tonight as today was chcocabloc mastering off video clips and my eyes are literally throbbing from staring at screens. I hope to have something to show tomorrow but Imm off to get some cucumber for my eyes. If that doesn't work I'll stick it in some Pimms....

[CedB]

You could stick it in some Pimms but I find it's better to... oh wait, you meant the cucumber... sorry

[The Spadgent]

Awesome progress boss. The pen lid worked a treat, awesome stuff.

[keefr22]

I'm wellllllll late to your party Tony, but at least it meant I've had a very entertaining hour reading the whole thread to play catch up - great stuff so far! As I have a Premier boxing of the kit complete with Airwaves etched set, I'm indebted to you for your trailblazing use of the latter which will likely lead to most of mine ending up in the bin! At least there's a pair of skinny white metal seats in the kit, so I'm spared having to perform weight loss surgery on the kit bits!

If someone would only do the same thing to turn the old Airfix Scout into a Wasp I'd be a bunny...

I'm now a little hesitant to say this, but someone has..... Airwaves !! I always thought it looked quite nice 'in the box' (mine's actually in a plastic bag) but I'm now having second thoughts seeing how their PE looks! It'll probably be easier to find chicken gnashers than one of them, so might be better to hope that Freightdog one day bring out their promised one. Although that might not be so much fun....

Looking forward to progress!

Keith

[TheBaron]

You could stick it in some Pimms but I find it's better to... oh wait, you meant the cucumber... sorry

Ced: Tickled pink by that No wait...that's just making it worse...

Awesome progress boss. The pen lid worked a treat, awesome stuff.

All hail the mighty wine-siphon powered Venom. Scourge of the seas...

I'm wellllllll late to your party Tony, but at least it meant I've had a very entertaining hour reading the whole thread to play catch up - great stuff so far! As I have a Premier boxing of the kit complete with Airwaves etched set, I'm indebted to you for your trailblazing use of the latter which will likely lead to most of mine ending up in the bin! At least there's a pair of skinny white metal seats in the kit, so I'm spared having to perform weight loss surgery on the kit bits!

I'm now a little hesitant to say this, but someone has..... Airwaves !! I always thought it looked quite nice 'in the box' (mine's actually in a plastic bag) but I'm now having second thoughts seeing how their PE looks! It'll probably be easier to find chicken gnashers than one of them, so might be better to hope that Freightdog one day bring out their promised one. Although that might not be so much fun....

Looking forward to progress!

Keith

Keith: You're very welcome sir. No apologies necessary! I'm only too happy to play guinea pig on the PE if it saves anyone else the grief. I've separate interior and exterior sets for this particular build. So far the interior one has underwhelmed - the only really useful bits on it seem to be the framing and hinge for a raised canopy, plus some dinky little chocks (unless you want to build the radar and have a raised radome, however the etch for that is somewhat rudimentary). The exterior set has more promising stuff like wingfolds, wheel wells and so forth that I hope will redeem themselves

Thanks for the pointer on the Wasp PE By conicidence I was looking at Scout prices on a well-known auction site and there was one going for guess what? I won't tell you but if you want a heart-attack:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Sealed-Airfix-1-72nd-Scale-Aircraft-Series-1-Westland-Scout-Type-3-Bagged-/291388721620?hash=item43d81f09d4:g:zKQAAOSwZjJU6d5C

I can only assume there are a lot of wealthy frustrated Wasp builders out there... c'mon Freightdog - England expects....

Anyhoo. Back to Siege Venomous. This evening was one of those rare and purposeful sessions where various processes that you'd been vacillating over for days suddenly all streamed nicely together - perhaps some kind of karmic correction taking place in the universe...

Either way, first use of the contour gauge in anger and I got the rear bulkhead for the cockpit shaped out of black plasticard:

To mount it firmly I used the remains of an old 1/24 Spitfire ammo box, the nearest thing to hand that looked like an electronics box. Not that it'll matter as that region will be hidden by the rear office radio gear I've to build later (thanks Bill and Steve for filling in the blanks ) I used a thick piece of card as that's going to be the support for the panel on which the radio gear is mounted.

Letting that cure, I did some footering at t'other end, building in some framework from 0.5mm strips to act as mounts for the engine disc and exhaust nozzle:

The differing taper between airframe and exhaust meant some fiddling around with offcuts of thick card to act as bracing and padding in order to maintain the correct angle for the exhaust once the fuselage is closed up:

It all looks a bit messy for sure but in the final instance will be invisible to the viewer. Next it was in with the pretend cotton-reel Ghost:

Leaving that to go off and pausing for a restorative coffee and choc bar, I found myself in such a positive frame of mind (I know...dangerous ground sometimes leading to that 'I'll just fix this before...bugger!' event just before knocking off for the evening, leaving you to obsess the night through about the virtue of patience ) that I decided to plough on with installing the cockpit:

Somewhat taken aback to see the form of an aircraft appearing out of a fan of bits spread out in front of me. One tricky bit I'd been worrying over was the PE deck behind the seats for the radio gear to sit on. The Airwaves instructions are a little enigmatic about whether this should be fixed on top of the fuselage lip, or beneath it. Fitting it on top would introduce an added raised area that would cause problems later with getting the canopy flush, so I opted to fix it inside:

In order for it to fit satisfactorily, you have to scrape out quite a lot of plastic from under the lip of the cockpit with a scalpel, and because I'm paranoid about such things, I added some thick bracing underneath as well to keep it in place. Once the CA had gone off, I closed-up the fuselage, opting to try out some Tamiya extra-thin for the first time ever. What fabulous stuff!

Hopefully I applied the stuff correctly.

I'll have to get back at the exhaust nozzle at some stage with a file and reduce the inner walls some more. As of an hour or so ago we have a fuselage Ladies & Gentlemen.

I'll have a think about what comes next in the sequence. I'm not one of those flow-chart builders (you guessed that anyway), but tend instead to look at pieces and think 'Oh, I'll do that next'. Instinctive. Yes, let's settle for instinctive: it sounds so much better than haphazard.

In rummaging through some old issues of Scale Aircraft Modeller in order to try and track down some of Martin H's excellent 'Under the Hood' articles (there's a lovely one of the Sea Vixen he did, amongst others), I came across this lovely photo in a Sea Venom profile. Just look at all that lovely staining on the undersides:

Not only various oil and fluid residues but to my eye there's some significant deposits left by the rocket rails. I sense the anti-weathering boys twitching already.

The absolute icing on the cake is that she's WW150 from Ark Royal and I just realized I've the decals for this exact aircraft in the Model Alliance set for the Ark's Air Wing. What a lovely end to the evening!

Tony

[perdu]

I think you may have got yourself a model there

A very nice one stacking up I reckon too

So now I have to get that etch stuff too

Poo but seeing how well it is looking I just gotta get it

The weathering boys wont dislike it if it is like the real thing, you know... I 'spect

For me it is if it goes away from reality I worry

I love that pair of sweeties, want want want

(nice pic of the area I will be scratching because of the missing part on them too)

[keefr22]

Thanks for the pointer on the Wasp PE By conicidence I was looking at Scout prices on a well-known auction site and there was one going for guess what? I won't tell you but if you want a heart-attack:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Sealed-Airfix-1-72nd-Scale-Aircraft-Series-1-Westland-Scout-Type-3-Bagged-/291388721620?hash=item43d81f09d4:g:zKQAAOSwZjJU6d5C

What? WHAT??!! They cannot be serious. Can they?! If those things are actually selling for that I'd best offload mine - it would double my pension 'fund'...!!

And just in case you do find yourself looking for one Tony, the Wasp conversion is white metal rather than PE - might help with an e-bay search...!

Good quick progress in getting the fuselage together - the 'pit looks suitably snug!

I like the exhaust staining under the tailplane of the jet in the foreground of that lovely pic., I think Bill added that nice touch to his cracking build - first time I've ever noticed it!

Keith

[The Spadgent]

That there bird is really coming together nicely. Looking rather splendid in one piece.

Johnny.