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Sean_M

All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

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I'm hoping someone can help me with a Hurricane question. Forgive me if this has been asked before. I searched, but couldn't find anything on this section of the forum.

I'm trying to model Keith Park's Hurricane - OK1.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/kp.JPG

http://www.barryweekleyart.com/aviation/AVM%20Keith%20Park.jpg

These are about the only images I can seem to find of his aircraft. I think I know the types of roundels and lettering I'll need, but I'm not sure of the sizes.

Grey lettering,

B type roundel on the upper wing,

Type A under the wings,

Type A.1 on the fuselage.

Looks like that might be 30" lettering. Does anyone know the size of each roundel type? And of the fin flash?

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EDIT: However, beware of over-analysis! Looking at P3351 here http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?135055-Hawker-Hurricane-P3351-on-its-nose-in-France, it seems that wooden props do bend. Look down the thread for the views of it being lifted.

Yes, what you have there, as in the earlier shipboard shot, is a wooden blade with multiple fractures being held together by the fabric covering.

When I was a youthful and unskilled control-line model combat pilot we always used to cover the models with doped nylon. After an 80 mph head on collision with terra firma you might find that while every part of the balsa / birch ply / spruce structure was comprehensively shattered, the doped fabric envelope was still intact. It effectively gave you a nice ready-made bag to carry the wreckage home in without littering the flying field. Back at home you could slit it open with a scalpel and shake out all the the thumbnail-size pieces.

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I'm hoping someone can help me with a Hurricane question. Forgive me if this has been asked before. I searched, but couldn't find anything on this section of the forum.

I'm trying to model Keith Park's Hurricane - OK1.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/kp.JPG

http://www.barryweekleyart.com/aviation/AVM%20Keith%20Park.jpg

These are about the only images I can seem to find of his aircraft. I think I know the types of roundels and lettering I'll need, but I'm not sure of the sizes.

Grey lettering,

B type roundel on the upper wing,

Type A under the wings,

Type A.1 on the fuselage.

Looks like that might be 30" lettering. Does anyone know the size of each roundel type? And of the fin flash?

By Park's Hurricane, you mean the BoB era one, as he had one on Malta as well.

Brief discussion here. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234961962-airfix-124-hurricane/page-8#entry1721052

the other photos in the link are of OK-2 BTW.

kp.JPG

The roundel looks standard, so 35 inch.

The code letters are small, about 20 inch, i looked at the panel lines etc and then took a measurement off plans. The codes are very light coloured, so may well be white.

Some other points, it's a fairly early plane, it lacks the access panel introduced in early 1940 that would be where the 'K' is, so it's an L**** or N**** era plane, it has a front sighting post, and a De Havilland propeller (from blade shape)

There looks to be some kind of emblem just under the rear of the cockpit.

This thread

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/6667

has this

Kiwichappers, here's the operational history of N2520:

No. 213 'Ceylon' (F) Squadron
R.A.F. Station Wittering,
circa February 1940
Station Flight
R.A.F. Station Northolt, Middlesex
No. 3 Service Flying Training School
R.A.F. Station South Cerney, Gloucestershire
Station Flight
R.A.F. Station South Cerney, Gloucestershire
No. 55 Operational Training Unit
R.A.F. Station Usworth, Durham
No. 41 Operational Training Unit
R.A.F. Station Hawarden, Flintshire
Struck off charge on the 23rd of May 1944.

If correct ties in with the details shown. I'd presume it has the Hurricane type De Havilland unit,

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/

as N2479 has a DH Hurricane unit. That is a 'best guess'

Other features of the N**** series plane are a pole aerial and the earlier type of windscreen without frontal armour, and a 6 inch high serial, .and 5 spoke wheels.

Hurricane_DH_Spinner_comparison.png

This http://www.barryweekleyart.com/aviation/AVM%20Keith%20Park.jpg

is just a painting, and I'd not trust it for details.

The specified size for Hurricane roundels was 49 B upper wing, and 35 inch fuselage.

As station flight plane it's had the fuse roundel repainted from a 35 A type roundel , as seen on N2358 above. This requires a complete repaint, and many 35" A type just had a yellow ring added when they were introduced.

These sizes are the standard ones in most kits anyway.

Underwing roundels were removed with the introduction of sky undersides, and then repainted in august 1940.

Hopefully other will know more.

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Thanks, Troy!

Looks like these should have me sorted for decals (as close as I can get for white lettering). I've got some 8" lettering for the fuselage which I'll probably stick with (can't see any 6" options for WW2 RAF on Hannants).

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72199

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72045

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72043

Whether or not I use the underwing roundels presumably depends on the time period I'm trying to represent. I'll take a look at the propeller supplied with my Hasegawa kit (late type) and the canopy.

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the sky fuselage bands, on hurricanes to they wrap around the entire fuselage or did they terminate on the end of the fuselage side, references suggest they did terminate, but my decal sheet shows it wrapping around, and the only photo I can find of the subject is inconclusive

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The Sky (or Sky Blue) trim wrapped around the fuselage including the underside. Which references suggest that they terminated?

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me being very thick, of course they terminate if the paint is the same shade :banghead: as the underside of the aircraft in question.......thanks, though its not the answer I want to hear, make painting it on even more difficult

Edited by PhantomBigStu

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In late 1940 and early 1941, it appears quite clearly that on many RAF fighters there is considerable contrast between the colour of the trim (and spinner) and the underside, the band being lighter enough to show on b&w photos. Colour photos show this to be either Sky Blue or some other colour that looks much the same. Some argue that it is just an alternative versions of Sky (which just happens to look much like Sky Blue), or perhaps badly mixed batches of Sky (which have in every observed case been mixed to be lighter than Sky and just happen to look like Sky Blue). This has been discussed elsewhere without any opinions being altered. This colour difference disappears when the trim is added by the factory.

Whether you have the Sky trim at all depends upon the period. As indeed does the Sky underside.

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Is there any information as to when the Hurricane changed from using five spoke to using four spoke wheels as original fitted equipment?

Any info on the change by way of Mark, airframe number, or date?

If there is no definitive info what is the bestest estimate when the change happened?

Ta,

Fred

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Is there any information as to when the Hurricane changed from using five spoke to using four spoke wheels as original fitted equipment?

Any info on the change by way of Mark, airframe number, or date?

If there is no definitive info what is the bestest estimate when the change happened?

Ta,

Fred

Hi Fred

From looking at photos, the L**** and N**** serialed, ie first two productions blocks, both Mk I had the 5 spoke, after that, 4 spoke. So by early 1940.

Edit - And the early Canadian built Mk I's as well, though in RAF service they got L**** serials.

I've never seen a P**** with them, and never seen a L**** or N**** without from the era. No doubt some early planes got the 4 spoke later.

The early production blocks have quite a few detail differences to annoy the modeller BTW!

Ask if you need specifics, got to go out now.

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Hi folks,looking at the new Airfix Hurricane(1/48) and the inclusion of the tail hook allied to some profiles I,ve seen of FAA hurricanes with the under-

surface colours extended two thirds the way up the fuselage sides a) are these schemes "kosher" B) can the airfix kit be built to represent one with or

without the hook?

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Hi folks,looking at the new Airfix Hurricane(1/48) and the inclusion of the tail hook allied to some profiles I,ve seen of FAA hurricanes with the under-

surface colours extended two thirds the way up the fuselage sides a) are these schemes "kosher" B) can the airfix kit be built to represent one with or

without the hook?

the high side scheme is this one

Hurricane Mk I P3118 M Royal Navy Air Station Gosport 1940

see

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-hurricane-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/page-16#entry1904820

links to

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20508-hurricane-norwegian-campaign-and-rn-air-station-gosport-doubts/

apparently there is a photo,though I have never seen it, and don't know of it being published, but it's not a Sea Hurricane.

Has anyone seen the photo?

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Thanks Troy that,s certainly the non hooked aircraft profile I,ve seen I now can,t find the profile of the alleged "hooked " version (W9220)? based at

St.Merryn in 1941 only a model build which does not show a hook due to the photo angle.

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Hi all,firstly apologies as I,ve done this question to death over the last couple of year,s but can anyone tie any AF-codes to serials and individual letters

for 607 sqn,s Hurricanes for the battle of Britain period?

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I have P2874 as AF.B in the Battle of France. P2617 is coded AF.F in the RAF Museum: it was coded AF.T when on display postwar. I have both P2617 and P2574 as AF.F in the BoF - presumably at least one of them is wrong.

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Many thank,s Graham and Edgar.looking at the available sheets for this option from hannant,s which would be suitable size and colour wise?

Edited by stevej60

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Hello guys! One question please. Is it possible for someone to find any drwaings that reveal all Hurricanes rivets on wings and fuselage? I want to try the trumpeter riveting tool on my model but I need to do a proper job. Any ideas?

Thank you!

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Hello guys! One question please. Is it possible for someone to find any drwaings that reveal all Hurricanes rivets on wings and fuselage? I want to try the trumpeter riveting tool on my model but I need to do a proper job. Any ideas?

Thank you!

Yes, the Arthur Bentley ones referred to in this thread.

http://www.albentley-drawings.com/drawings/hawker-hurricane-mk-i/hawker-hurricane-mk-ii/

A 1/48th set was in November 2005 issue of Model Aircraft Monthly, which may well be cheaper to find the mag than buying direct.

Note, Hurricane have raised mushroom head rivets. A riveting tool will not accurately represent these. They are well shown here.

hurricane_iia_10_of_31.jpg

from

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_iia/

And just visible is that the leading edges of the wing are flush riveted.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_iia/images/hurricane_iia_17_of_31.jpg

HTH

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Edit - And the early Canadian built Mk I's as well, though in RAF service they got L**** serials.

I'm a little confused by this statement. The Canadian built prototype was P5170. Oddly, it appears it has the five spoked wheels.

Jim

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And just visible is that the leading edges of the wing are flush riveted.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_iia/images/hurricane_iia_17_of_31.jpg

And with flush pop rivets on the leading edge too. IIRC Hawker was one of the first to make widespread use of pop rivets.

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? The pop rivets I used, and saw in use, weren't flush. The shank required to be pulled through with the head overlapping the outer skin. They had a much lower head size than the mushroom-headed rivet, but flush riveting requires countersinking of the skin so that the flat head lies flush with the outer skin. I agree that the photo of the Hurricane leading edge shows pop rivets, and even a little dimpling of the skin around the head, which would effectively lower the head.

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Hello guys! One question please. Is it possible for someone to find any drwaings that reveal all Hurricanes rivets on wings and fuselage? I want to try the trumpeter riveting tool on my model but I need to do a proper job. Any ideas?

Thank you!

Yes, the Arthur Bentley ones referred to in this thread.

http://www.albentley-drawings.com/drawings/hawker-hurricane-mk-i/hawker-hurricane-mk-ii/

A 1/48th set was in November 2005 issue of Model Aircraft Monthly, which may well be cheaper to find the mag than buying direct.

Note, Hurricane have raised mushroom head rivets. A riveting tool will not accurately represent these. They are well shown here.

hurricane_iia_10_of_31.jpg

from

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_iia/

And just visible is that the leading edges of the wing are flush riveted.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_iia/images/hurricane_iia_17_of_31.jpg

HTH

Yes if you want rivets, it would be better to use decals ( http://hgwmodels.cz/en/29-148-scale ), they would look far better.

Edited by Tbolt

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Quick question. I am about to try and get back into finishing (and modelling...) my new tool Airfix Hurri. Its planned to be finished as 'Willie' McKnights aircraft LE-A and Troy has supplied the decals from the Italeri kit. Can someone confirm whether this Hurricane of 242 squadron wore the A or B scheme camo please? I have done the black underside to port wing and everything else in earth and sky so just the green needs applying. Maybe one of our more knowledgeable Canadian members can help??

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