Graham Boak Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 It can be seen on other Hurricanes used in the Fighter Reconnaissance role, as opposed to the Photo Reconnaissance, role. I suggest that the ground crew underneath are looking at the opening for a vertical camera. The missions with 26 Sq will have been flown in training rather than operationally, the squadron was equipped with Spitfires and then Mustangs in the naval spotting role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I want to finish the Airfix IIc I'm building as LF363. However, it will have a twist in that I will do it like this...... http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Allen_M/media/2-HawkerHurricane-4_zps341c29ce.jpg.html... Thanks in advance! Trevor Thanks Trevor for the photo of the camera install in LF363. I've never seen (or noticed?) that before! The flat disc could plating over a camera port, as LF363 was used in a recon role as seen on here, note similar position to the above..... Fantastic photo Troy, I had no idea that PR Hurricanes could have a side camera as well as the underside of the fuselage install. It can be seen on other Hurricanes used in the Fighter Reconnaissance role, as opposed to the Photo Reconnaissance, role. I suggest that the ground crew underneath are looking at the opening for a vertical camera. The missions with 26 Sq will have been flown in training rather than operationally, the squadron was equipped with Spitfires and then Mustangs in the naval spotting role. Thanks Graham, it's starting to make sense now. "Tac R" Hurricanes had a ventral camera install and guns, "PR" Hurricanes had only the camera's. I had not noticed that in my copy of SAM's Hurricane comprehensive guide for the modeller. We better tell SAM to get cracking on an edition 3 of this modeller's datafile, it doesn't show the side camera install! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Does anyone have closeup photos of the camera install on the "Tac R" and PR Hurricanes. I have three photo's in my collection but all from quite a distance away. (I'll post them later, after losing my post above multiple times I see I need to register for PhotoBucket first to upload photos...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Here's the Hurricane camera installation photos I have from my collection. Unfortunately all the shots I have are from a fair distance away. On the Facebook Hawker Hurricane Appreciation page it was discussed how the Tac R/PR camera installations were all done in the field and not in the factory, I assume this means there was a fair bit of variation in the install? Does anyone have close up images of the installation (Sorry if these were posted before, I don't keep track of where I find images...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) In all there were 9 different camera configurations which could be installed in TAC/R Hurricanes: Vertical F.24 camera with 8” lens. Vertical F.24 camera with 5” lens Vertical F.24 camera with 14” lens Vertical F.24 camera with 8” lens fitted with port angled mirror attachment. Vertical F.24 camera with 5” lens fitted with port angled mirror attachment Vertical F.24 camera with 8” lens fitted with starboard angled mirror attachment. Vertical F.24 camera with 5” lens fitted with starboard angled mirror attachment. Port facing F.24 camera fitted with an 8 inch lens. Port facing F.24 camera fitted with a 14 inch lens. Cheers Dave Edited February 16, 2015 by tango98 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 In all there were 9 different camera configurations which could be installed in TAC/R Hurricanes: .....Cheers...Dave.... Thanks for the info Dave, that port facing camera is interesting, until the photo above I never knew about them. Where did you find the info above, I don't remember reading it in my Hurricane books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Glad I could help. The info comes from an ex-RAF imaging specialist colleague of mine who has an extensive knowledge of RAF photo Recce during WW2. I've also received a great deal of documentary and schematic material from him relating to the Hurricane in the PR role for the major Hurricane project that I'm involved with but I've not yet had time to go through it all. Cheers Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch K Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Can anyone shed any light on the thickness of the sheet metal used? I guess that some areas will be thicker than others (e.g. leading edges) but wing skins, cowling panels etc? 12 gauge? 20 gauge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Can anyone shed any light on the thickness of the sheet metal used? I guess that some areas will be thicker than others (e.g. leading edges) but wing skins, cowling panels etc? 12 gauge? 20 gauge? I'm not that much help: Radiator bath skin is 20 gauge, formers for the framework for the cowling support framework are also made of 20 gauge as are the frames in the radiator bath. I believe the wings had different thickness skins, but have never seen a drawing confirming it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch K Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Cheers StevSmar! It helps a lot because it gives me a feel for the actual thickness you would model the skin if you were doing it accurately: 0.01mm or about 0.4 thou... Edited February 19, 2015 by Mitch K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I want to finish the Airfix IIc I'm building as LF363. However, it will have a twist in that I will do it like this...... http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Allen_M/media/2-HawkerHurricane-4_zps341c29ce.jpg.html.... Trevor Following on from Trevor's post, here's a photo of LF363 showing the support framework for the infamous circular disk shown in trevor's photo above. Photo by Paul Blackah. (My first post with both a quote AND an image!!! I consider that quite an achievement) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre_days Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Does anyone know where to find a photograph of L2006 while serving at the 11 Group Pilot Pool at RAF Sutton Bridge? I can only find the profiles in Combat Colours Number 2 and On Target Profile 12. Both clearly illustrate a Rotol propeller, but the text in the On Target Profile describes it as having a De Havilland unit. If anyone could please point me in the direction of a primary source reference, it would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I want to finish the Airfix IIc I'm building as LF363. However, it will have a twist in that I will do it like this...... http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Allen_M/media/2-HawkerHurricane-4_zps341c29ce.jpg.html .....Trevor I received the following from Gordon Riley (the author of the Hurricane Survivors book which will be published later on in the year), on the colour scheme: You might want to tell the Britmodeller group that the colour shown in the photo was applied in June 1949 and was ‘Ice Blue’ with a red spinner, together with an Air Vice Marshall’s pennant and the crest of 11 Group, Fighter Command, carried below the cockpit. It was the personal aircraft of Air Vice Marshall Sir Stanley Vincent, the only pilot known to have flown operationally in both WWI and WW2 and to have claimed aircraft shot down in both conflicts. He flew a Hurricane during the Battle of Britain whilst Station Commander at Northolt! Upper surface roundels can just be seen in this scan of a tiny print I bought off eBay. Image from Gordon Riley: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I would like to ask a few questions concerning naval Hurricanes - not only Sea Hurricanes, not only FAA Hurricanes but NAVAL Hurricanes. 1. Sea Hurricanes Mk.IA (50 a/c operating from CAM ships) and Mk.IB (340 a/c converted for use from MAC ships) were put into service in summer (June/July) 1941, while lower demarcation line and Sky undersides were introduced in January 1941. Is there any chance to find a Sea Hurricane in previous camouflage, i.e. high demarcation line and Sky Grey undersurfaces? 2. Well-known Corgi Hurricane W9220 from 880 RNAS, similarly painted W9219, P3114 from Gosport and several others sported this earlier camouflage, but was pilot training their only role within the FAA? 3. Are there any photos confirming the "arctic" scheme of TLS over Sky Grey with high demarcation line on No.46 Sq. Hurricanes (not Sea Hurricanes, not a FAA unit, but operating from HMS Glorious over Norway) or is it just a humbug based on a single photo of the single Sea Gladiator caught on Norwegian soil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I received the following from Gordon Riley (the author of the Hurricane Survivors book which will be published later on in the year), on the colour scheme: You might want to tell the Britmodeller group that the colour shown in the photo was applied in June 1949 and was ‘Ice Blue’ with a red spinner, together with an Air Vice Marshall’s pennant and the crest of 11 Group, Fighter Command, carried below the cockpit. It was the personal aircraft of Air Vice Marshall Sir Stanley Vincent, the only pilot known to have flown operationally in both WWI and WW2 and to have claimed aircraft shot down in both conflicts. He flew a Hurricane during the Battle of Britain whilst Station Commander at Northolt! Upper surface roundels can just be seen in this scan of a tiny print I bought off eBay. Image from Gordon Riley: thanks Steve I wonder if 'Ice Blue' is like Sky Blue. Could Sky Blue S type paint be given a coat of gloss varnish, or is this more likely to be an on the spot mix. Did the RAF have a gloss light blue? the only pilot known to have flown operationally in both WWI and WW2 and to have claimed aircraft shot down in both conflicts. Only British pilot I know of, but a Luftwaffe flyers who did this as well, eg Theo Osterkamp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Osterkamp the others listed Pilots who flew in combat in both World Wars Harry von Bülow-Bothkamp, German ace in both World War One and Two Otto Höhne Erich Mix Stanley Vincent Marcel Haegelen one it misses from this thread http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?51183-Pilots-who-flew-in-both-WW1-and-WW2 http://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/sep/20/obituaries.readersobituaries Pilot Captain Bert van Sloten, who has died aged 105 in the Netherlands, was awarded the Iron Cross First Class by Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm for his service in the first world war and the Distinguished Flying Cross by the British in the second world war. Yet he never wore his decorations, laughing instead at "stupid bits of ribbon and tin. The life of a kitten is more important!" Born in Holland, the son of a cheese merchant, he ran away to Germany at 17 (to escape the lucrative, but dull, family business) and joined the Imperial German air service, flying on the western front in the closing months of the first world war. He then helped his compatriot Antony Fokker, the famous aircraft designer, to remove some Fokker D-VII fighters from defeated Germany into neutral Holland. In 1919, he helped the fledgling Dutch aviation industry by accompanying fellow pilot Bernard de Waal in their daring "liberation" of a Fokker F-11 airliner (one of the very earliest passenger aeroplanes) from Germany to Holland. He was then employed by Royal Dutch Airlines (KLM) to fly the famous F-VII trimotor airliners to Batavia (in modern Indonesia), pioneering routes now followed by British Airways and Qantas to Australia. With the Nazi invasion of Holland in May 1940, van Sloten was drafted into the Royal Dutch air force, and, flying a DC3 Dakota transport, brought a Dornier Do-17 bomber down on a German arm-oured unit, destroying at least eight tanks. He usually denied the feat, though after a few glasses of Bols and Grolsch would sometimes murmur, "Maybe I blew up six of the sweethearts!" Escaping in a DC-3 to England, van Sloten joined the 32 Squadron, flying Hawker Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain. Towards the end of the war, he was transferred to the Pacific, where his knowledge of the skies over Indonesia proved of great value to both the RAF and the USAAF. Worth a quote as not listed on Wiki and was a Hurricane pilot. Anyone have info on any planes he flew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would like to ask a few questions concerning naval Hurricanes - not only Sea Hurricanes, not only FAA Hurricanes but NAVAL Hurricanes. 1. Sea Hurricanes Mk.IA (50 a/c operating from CAM ships) and Mk.IB (340 a/c converted for use from MAC ships) were put into service in summer (June/July) 1941, while lower demarcation line and Sky undersides were introduced in January 1941. Is there any chance to find a Sea Hurricane in previous camouflage, i.e. high demarcation line and Sky Grey undersurfaces? The Fleet Air Arm is part of the Royal Navy, I don't know that there could be not be non FAA Naval Hurricanes. Others may know more about the definitions or organisation of the Royal Navy though. as for S1E Camouflage, I don't know of any Sea Hurricanes, as opposed to any Royal Navy operated Hurricane that had this, see below. There is a colour photo of a CAM Hurricane with what was probably a quick repaint scheme Discussed here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28936-hurricanes-on-merchant-catapult-ships/ as for colours, see below 2. Well-known Corgi Hurricane W9220 from 880 RNAS, similarly painted W9219, P3114 from Gosport and several others sported this earlier camouflage, but was pilot training their only role within the FAA? If a Hurricane was not converted for ship use, be it catapult spool or a Hook, it would used for shore based training. Colours. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20508-hurricane-norwegian-campaign-and-rn-air-station-gosport-doubts/ Hurricane Mk I P3118 M Royal Navy Air Station Gosport 1940 Yes to the second, with the qualification that the colour could well have been Sky at this stage, not Sky Grey. The aircraft is known from a photograph. I have not seen the photo as far as I remember. Does anyone know if it has been published anywhere? 3. Are there any photos confirming the "arctic" scheme of TLS over Sky Grey with high demarcation line on No.46 Sq. Hurricanes (not Sea Hurricanes, not a FAA unit, but operating from HMS Glorious over Norway) or is it just a humbug based on a single photo of the single Sea Gladiator caught on Norwegian soil? No. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77454-48-hurricane-fabric-wings/ scroll down. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77454-48-hurricane-fabric-wings/#entry850748 There is no evidence suggesting that the "arctic scheme" was ever used on the Hurricanes, or the Gladiators belonging to 263 Squadron. also http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20508-hurricane-norwegian-campaign-and-rn-air-station-gosport-doubts/ Hopefully others can add more detail to some of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would like to ask a few questions concerning naval Hurricanes - not only Sea Hurricanes, not only FAA Hurricanes but NAVAL Hurricanes. 1. Sea Hurricanes Mk.IA (50 a/c operating from CAM ships) and Mk.IB (340 a/c converted for use from MAC ships) were put into service in summer (June/July) 1941, while lower demarcation line and Sky undersides were introduced in January 1941. Is there any chance to find a Sea Hurricane in previous camouflage, i.e. high demarcation line and Sky Grey undersurfaces? I'd say it's unlikely; this is in response to a complaint, of the 16th. May, that the first four airframes, for ship-borne use, were 3 in TLS and the fourth in a mixture of TLS & TSS:_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hi Any info on the ASR hurricanes used by 276 Sqn ( nov 41 to jan 42 ) or 284 Sqn ( sep 44 to mar 45 ) or 279 Sqn ( apr to jun 45 ) think there were some others, but i cant remember which ones I am interested in the modifications done to the a/c Cheers Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Does anyone know where to find a photograph of L2006 while serving at the 11 Group Pilot Pool at RAF Sutton Bridge? I can only find the profiles in Combat Colours Number 2 and On Target Profile 12. Both clearly illustrate a Rotol propeller, but the text in the On Target Profile describes it as having a De Havilland unit. If anyone could please point me in the direction of a primary source reference, it would be much appreciated.I'm afraid that I can't help directly but here is it's near neighbour L2001 taken at Wick in December 1940. https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7246/6907626748_2081e9ee6f.jpg This seems to have the De Havilland unit, so it seems reasonable to think L2006 may have been the same? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sorry not to have got back sooner (on hols with no wifi )but thanks to everyone re info on '363. Ice Blue?? There's a turn up! Sounds like Spitfire 16 SL721! http://www.warbirdregistry.org/spitregistry/images/spit-sl721.jpg I wonder if there is a connection with the colour? (I realise the pic is a post war interpretation of an imprecise colour) Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born Too Late Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi, I've a query about the rag wing Hurricanes. Just bought the Airfix kit and I also have a certain affinity for my local airfields Hornchurch and Rochford (now called London Southend of all things ). My question is, did any squadrons operating out of either airfield fly the fabric wing MkI Hurricanes? I believe 56 squadron used Rochford in August 1940 but presumably they had metal wings by then? Many thanks Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark12 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Sorry not to have got back sooner (on hols with no wifi )but thanks to everyone re info on '363. Ice Blue?? There's a turn up! Sounds like Spitfire 16 SL721! http://www.warbirdregistry.org/spitregistry/images/spit-sl721.jpg I wonder if there is a connection with the colour? (I realise the pic is a post war interpretation of an imprecise colour) Trevor Don't under estimate the amount of work that went in to trying to get the right tonal quality for the painting of SL721 in that unspecified blue. PeterA Edited February 27, 2015 by Mark12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Thanks for that Peter! Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I've just noticed that the fabric wing Hurricane at the Science Museum has five slots under it's wing. What's the 5th slot for?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeMaben Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Appears to be some sort of adjustment... Edited March 16, 2015 by MIkeMaben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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