Troy Smith Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I've found the 'old faithful' Airfix 1/48 Hurricane in the back of my loft that I'm planning to build with the supplied 85 Squadron markings from Lille-Seclin before hostilities broke out in France. Recently noticed that the increase in colours on the spinners, as depicted on Airfix's new tool 1/72 kit of VY-C/G as a ragwing with a three-blade prop. So with this in mind my questions are: 1. Should I go with the black spinner or a specific colour applied by 85 Squadron? 2. Is the kit actually wrong for 85 Sqn in April 1940 by having tin wings? Thanks a mill for any guidance! 1.As depicted in the artwork/decals, black. Coloured spinners came in later. 2. yes, kit is wrong, subject is most probably fabric winged. see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/ This is VY-G in Airfix kit early 1940. this is I think is VY-G in May 1940, hard to tell if that's a 'G' or 'C'. Looks as if panel under the end of the G/C has been replaced with another. note plane is faded, as it would be as not usually hangared in France, and has Spitfire type DH Spinner, as does plane above. Both have the later style attenna, as opposed to the more usual pole type seen on these early airframes, which I just noticed. Read the link, lots more on 85 Sq planes. HTH T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltadefender Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Thanks, Troy. I might go back to the drawing board, then. If the 1/72 kit has the correct decals for both Hurricanes (VY-C and -G) pre-hostilities and during the Battle of France, it would be simpler to get a pair of them than try to use the 1/48 metal wing. I shall think of a suitable subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Following my question last week, I did further research and found this the other day. Would it be feasible that Hurricane US-P could actually be serial no. N2523? Prior to the start of the Battle of Britain Sgt G.Smythe from No 56 Squadron had already destroyed 5 enemy aircraft. Smythe shot down Bf 109's on 12th and the 16th of August. He was shot down and force-landed his Hurricane I (P3473) near Foulness at 12:30hrs on the 26th of August. On the 28th of August he shot down a Bf 109 and was immediately shot down himself, baling out of his Hurricane I (N2523) safely over Hawkinge at 17:10hrs. He was awarded the D.F.M. on 30th of August 1940. http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co.uk/pilots/Sm-pilots.html#SmytheG Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Thanks MilneBay, some very interesting links. Hi Troy, thanks very much, this has been very useful indeed. I had come across this photo earlier (on the 56 Sq Association site), and it is given as France. It was seeing the serial number I decided to post here. My initial thought was the above aircraft had been lost and the codes given to N2522 at a later date, i.e circa June 1940? Probably not. I shall just use the codes, no serials. The only serial with (64) , that I could find so far, is a Hurricane I, LI764, which crash landed on Chesil Beach while being flown by P/O M.H.C.Maxwell, after being bounced by ME-109's at 17.00 hrs, 30th Sept 1940 http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co.uk/pilots/Ma-pilots.html#MantonGAL Following my question last week, I did further research and found this the other day. Would it be feasible that Hurricane US-P could actually be serial no. N2523? Prior to the start of the Battle of Britain Sgt G.Smythe from No 56 Squadron had already destroyed 5 enemy aircraft. Smythe shot down Bf 109's on 12th and the 16th of August. He was shot down and force-landed his Hurricane I (P3473) near Foulness at 12:30hrs on the 26th of August. On the 28th of August he shot down a Bf 109 and was immediately shot down himself, baling out of his Hurricane I (N2523) safely over Hawkinge at 17:10hrs. He was awarded the D.F.M. on 30th of August 1940. http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co.uk/pilots/Sm-pilots.html#SmytheG Sean Hmm, well Sean, I thought your bit of research in quoted post 1 supplied the answer, P/O M.H.C.Maxwell of No 56 Squadron had been on operation Dynamo and was shot down by Belgian A.A. fire in may 1940 whilst chasing a He 111. During the Battle of Britain he crash landed his Hurricane I (R4117) near Hearne Bay on the 28th of August 1940 at 13:10hrs.He had been attacked by a Bf 109 and was uninjured. On the 30th of September 1940 he crash landed his Hurricane I (L1764) on Chesil Beach after being bounced by Bf 109's at 17:00hrs. If P/O Maxwell was still with 56 then you have a serial that matches with a photo of an aircraft with 56. Maybe just a co incidence. I posted this in the Nicolson Hurricane thread You need to remember photography was prohibited on RAF bases, and during the battle this was much more of a concern, so photos from this era are very rare. Those that exist are from two categories, from the occasional official shoot, two example are of 32 Sq at Hawkinge and 85 Sq at Castle Camps in July 1940, or the film of 56 Sq taking off [uS code], or 510 Sq taking off [sD code] all of which are very well known as a result. Or illicit private shots, which the picture of GN-C is likely an example, which have leaked out from veterans photo albums over the years. Now, there is film of 56 Sq, http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234964923-looking-for-info-on-56-squadron-hurricanes/ still here http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/fighter-station-scramble No US-P, bur some other 56 Sq planes with visible serials. The question, is there another 56 Sq photo of a Hurricane codes US-P? A check of the 1990 Mason Hurricane books shows there is no N3522, the last N**** Hurricane is N2729. Same book, N2523, listed as US-S, then 249 Sq (post France) I'd venture the plane in photo is L1764, 56sq, then 249 sq, back to 56, which would explain the overpainted codes. None of the other L**64 fit. No N**64 fit either. Given lack of photos, it's an Xtradecal botch. Note it does list sources. Hopefully someone can clarify this further. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Cheers Troy, that pretty much sorts that out. I shall just do codes, no serial, Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Does anyone have a decent picture of the breather on the port cowling under the exhaust? I want to see which bits I need to drill out on my Airfix 1/48th Hurricane. Thanks Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Does anyone have a decent picture of the breather on the port cowling under the exhaust? I want to see which bits I need to drill out on my Airfix 1/48th Hurricane. Thanks Wez This any good? http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/29/a3/51/29a351a9c2cc03b462bc15d07eaa7f39.jpg Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 This any good? http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/29/a3/51/29a351a9c2cc03b462bc15d07eaa7f39.jpg Trevor Trevor, Almost, just need to know what it looks like from the front - it's not clear enough in any of my references hence the question. Interesting photo though, who's that with Bader? Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Chap on the right looks Russian? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Chap on the right looks Russian? Trevor Don't think there were any Russians on 242 Sqn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Chap at right is the Canadian, Willie McKnight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Chap at right is the Canadian, Willie McKnight. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Eric Ball on the left 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Eric Ball on the left Thanks for that too... ...right, anyone got a decent view of that breather/vent from the front (e.g. the one on the port cowling below the exhaust). Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 This any better? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Pilots_discuss_a_sortie_by_the_nose_of_a_Hawker_Hurricane_Mk_IIC_of_No._224_Group_RAF_in_north-eastern_India,_1943._CI278.jpg Now then, the nose art...... or http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/69/f2/91/69f291b48e20d38499b0af9b4c0aedb1.jpg Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for that too... ...right, anyone got a decent view of that breather/vent from the front (e.g. the one on the port cowling below the exhaust). Wez http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Open at the front and side then! Thanks Troy and Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevej60 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Hi folk,s what can anyone tell or show me of Hurricane mk1 PR conversion of 69 sqn RAF in an all gray (minus the tail) scheme.please tell me it,s a kosher scheme and can it be modelled from the new 1/48 kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hi folk,s what can anyone tell or show me of Hurricane mk1 PR conversion of 69 sqn RAF in an all gray (minus the tail) scheme.please tell me it,s a kosher scheme and can it be modelled from the new 1/48 kit? Hiya Steve, If you mean the Malta based PR.I with a light blue scheme and with a camouflaged tail ,...personally I think that it is wrong!! When I wrote my book I looked into it and found that this arcraft was painted dark blue,.....Bosun Blue with black added! It had a long spinner Rotol prop for better climb performance, the radio mast was sawn off, it most likely had the Vokes filter removed too and it probably had B Type roundels and fin flashes? Here is a model that I did of this aircraft plus the RFI thread; http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234949411-1-48th-scale-hasegawa-photo-recce-hurricane-mki-v7101-69-sqn-malta-1941/?hl=%2Bhurricane+%2Bpr.i+%2Bmalta Cheers Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevej60 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thank,s Tony,my next question was going to be what,s Bosun blue! definitely a thought for a future project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Nobody knows, for sure, but Malta asked for aircraft to be painted Dark Mediterranean Blue on their upper surfaces, so that might be a reasonable place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Wasn`t Bosun Blue sometimes referred to as `Royal Blue' too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I think Geoff Thomas knew what Bosun Blue was: he described it as an ICI product. He describes the creation of the PR colour in The Eyes for The Phoenix. The colour was adopted in Egypt for PR aircraft and its use spread to the Far East. Malta presumably got the idea from Egypt, although whether it was precisely the same colour or just a suitable dark blue about the same hue is possibly not known. The problem with "Royal Blue" is that it means different things to different people, most of whom seem to be thinking of something lighter. Edited August 20, 2015 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It also doesn't help that there was no such colour as "Royal Blue" in the official lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magua87 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 By Park's Hurricane, you mean the BoB era one, as he had one on Malta as well. Brief discussion here. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234961962-airfix-124-hurricane/page-8#entry1721052 the other photos in the link are of OK-2 BTW. Another question for you, Troy. Can you tell from the photo above which camouflage pattern OK1 flew with? Any idea if it was standard? I've been comparing against the two camouflage schemes in the painting instructions for my Mk1 Hasegawa kit and haven't been able to square it with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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