Xtradecal X48430 Sea Hurricane IIC errata notes

[Troy Smith]

 

With announcement of the Arma Hobby Sea Hurricane IIC kit I'm sure there will be interest  in alternate schemes

 

Xtradecal anticipated this and have issued this sheet

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48240

 

This looks to be the best of the 4 Hurricane sheets they issued in 2023, but lack some rather crucial details in the painting guide.

lack correct details, in that 

 

NF728, 'K1.F' of 760 Naval Air Squadron, Fleet Air Arm, based aboard HMS Ravager, October 4, 1944

and

 NF721 'YO.F' of 787Z Naval Air Squadron, Fleet Air Arm, based at RNAS St. Merryn, UK, November, 1943.

 

both are fitted with rocket plates, and NF728 has no cannon fitted (the plates block the ejector slots)

I shall have to put up a thread on this, I did tell Hannants this, with supporting photos about several of their sheets, but  apparently it was "my opinion"

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235118780-sea-hurricane-iic-787-sq-listed-as-nf721-witteringtangmere-object-under-wing/

 

NF721

Rocket plates and rails fitted,  no cannon.

Spinner maybe Dark Slate Grey, too dark for Sky.  Tonal match for the markings Red? 

@iang ?

 

 

Sea Hurricanes HMS Ravager NF722 NF 728 compilation by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

NF728  note black spinner and completely removed cannon, not even the stubs in place, also rocket plates but no rails.

760 was being used to train Firefly pilots to fire rockets, so they would have carried rails at some point.

The photos above are when they were deck training. 

Comedy moment, the bottom left image is in the Valiant Wings Airframe and Miniature 16 as an unknown Sea Hurricane IB RP along with a little isometric showing this, an example of total fantasy found in said book.

Caveat emptor.

 

regarding the code colour option of Yellow and Sky, the codes should be Yellow as 760 was a training squadron, and this was standard for FAA training units.  The code letters are a good tonal match for the roundel yellow.

@JackG

 

The decals also have no mention of added aerials, note one behind radiator,  and in starboard wing, one of which I presume is IFF3 ?

 

 

@Bigos @GrzeM @Wojtek Bulhak

@Grey Beema  @85sqn  @StevSmar  

Edited February 25 by Troy Smith
additions

[Phoenix44]

8But could there have been a period with the markings as shown and the cannon, before the plates were fitted?

 

I'm not so convinced the spinner couldn't be Sky. The greys are all over the place in that photo - the area of fuselage behind the spinner is very light, as is the rudder. If you look at the photo of the on top of each other and at their starboard wings, if both are sky, one looks significantly darker than the other.

[Shorty84]

Hi Troy,

 

your comments are much appreciated as always. But I'm really wondering why you are still tying to help the guys at Xtradecals considering they don't give a hoot about it? I mean, you've described your efforts in a few other threads about their other Hurricane sheets but it seems they constantly ignore you (I can already imagine them rolling their eyes when they see one of your mails, thinking: "Oh no, that guy again...").

To be honest, if someone would constantly show me such a disrespectful behaviour while trying to help them improve their product for free, I would spend these hours elsewhere. Not to mention that it must be a frustrating and annoying experience being ignored again and again.

 

Of course, we all would still appreciate your comments here on their decals

 

Cheers

Markus

Edited February 25 by Shorty84

[85sqn]

Hey Troy,

 

I can't add anymore I'm afraid but I too have taken issue with their decal sheets for various reasons. I had a look through the 787 Sqn diary but couldn't see any relevant info unfortunately.

 

Best regards

 

Nick

[amos brierley]

Hello everyone.

 

I’ve found some time to rummage through my stash of decals.

 

I’ve got to thank @Troy Smithfor starting this thread. Up until the announcement of Armour Hurricane IIc I hadn’t given this subject much thought, but, I appreciate the discussion.

 

Whilst I’m always sceptical of Xtradecal some other decal companies are more dubious. Here’s some other decals from time gone by:

 

SuperScale 48-560 , they have 7 o N as overall white.

 

When this set of decals came along this ‘seemed’ to answer my needs. But the last A/C seems as flawed as any other offering. I would love to model this A/C because it suggests “Nicki” on the port side and a double line of Dark Sea Grey. Whilst I’ll have to pay attention if I’m going to choose something off my Xtradecal sheets, as for the my older sheets these may just become side lined.

 

Thanks for looking.  😉

[Troy Smith]

On 02/03/2024 at 11:00, amos brierley said:

they have 7 o N as overall white.

Sorry, missed this, I don't know if you are aware, but Arma have done the an 835 Sq Sea Hurricane boxing,  and as a result of my incessant witter about Hurricanes on here, I was emailed by the son of Sub Lieutenant Burgham, which was a very pleasant surprise,  who wanted to correct a detail on the badge on the 835 Sq Sea Hurricanes,  it being a Tiger head which was the 804 Sq badge, 835 Sq being formed from a detachment from 804 Sq,  which I was able to pass onto Arma Hobby and they were able to change their decal sheet! 

https://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2024/03/22/40009-a-cat-not-a-horse-last-minute-discovery/

 

So, hopefully that will work for you? 

 

HTH

[Troy Smith]

On 25/02/2024 at 19:36, Phoenix44 said:

But could there have been a period with the markings as shown and the cannon, before the plates were fitted?

There could.  

But is there a photo?   I doubt it.  Photos from training units are particularly rare,   I have seen some HMS Ravager images for sale on ebay recently, but no codes visible, and were action shots of landings, with not much else detail wise visible either.  I'll have to recheck re spinner colour.

EDIT HMS Ravager image sold on ebay

Not a Sky spinner

 

  The 4 images above only exist because of the accident.   

One of them, the top right,  is in the 1974 Classic Aircraft and How to Model them No.4 Hawker Hurricane, along with a profile, which  has a Sky Spinner, but also Red codes, while Yellow was standard for training units.  

But profiles can take on a life of their own, and that was done 50 years ago when it was so much harder to get information.

 

Plus, in conversation with a AM decal and resin producer, who informed me the main attraction of the Xtradecal main designer is he's cheap, as he has templates already done for many types.  So, taking off cannons and adding rocket plates....  

So, he's fast, and cheap, he's also sloppy, and if his work is not checked mistakes happen. 

Years ago when doing some BoB sheets he did post on here, I had to draw lines on an image to prove a detail before it was changed.

Note also the IIC sheet which has, again, the BE581 profile special scheme that no-one has ever seen a photo of. 

This one https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235128770-xtradecal-x48238-hurricane-iic-decals-errata-list/

I'll tag you if I ever get around the 72nd IID sheet critique, as that's a poor effort.

 

So, given I can find image of every one of the sheets subjects online....   Pardon my cynicism, IMO the source are the pics I posted.

 

One question I do have, is how did the K1F codes read on the port side? 

 

On 25/02/2024 at 19:36, Phoenix44 said:

 

I'm not so convinced the spinner couldn't be Sky. The greys are all over the place in that photo - the area of fuselage behind the spinner is very light, as is the rudder. If you look at the photo of the on top of each other and at their starboard wings, if both are sky, one looks significantly darker than the other.

OK, but study of Sea Hurricane Mk.II show  black, or one of the uppersurface camouflage colours, apart from the white 835 Sq ones.

The photo from the front is also unfortunately the worst quality, evidently scanned from a magazine or book, and found on the net.  The original print may not be cropped or is clearer.

@iang  or @Lee Howard   maybe aware of where the original image is?

 

On 25/02/2024 at 20:28, Shorty84 said:

your comments are much appreciated as always. But I'm really wondering why you are still tying to help the guys at Xtradecals considering they don't give a hoot about it? I mean, you've described your efforts in a few other threads about their other Hurricane sheets but it seems they constantly ignore you (I can already imagine them rolling their eyes when they see one of your mails, thinking: "Oh no, that guy again...").

To be honest, if someone would constantly show me such a disrespectful behaviour while trying to help them improve their product for free, I would spend these hours elsewhere. Not to mention that it must be a frustrating and annoying experience being ignored again and again.

 

Of course, we all would still appreciate your comments here on their decals

well, if I didn't try then there is no hope of them being changed.

 

And, then if they don't I can point out the errors here knowing I tried, and was ignored, and folks can draw their own conclusions, and decide if they want them or not.

And if enough people complain, they might try harder, or get a sheet checked by a third party for glitches.   

 

I the case of this specific sheet, the actual decals look basically correct, so providing the correct airframe and colour details allows the builder to correct these. 

Note, since I did this information on the 835 Sq shield has been provided by a pilots son, 

https://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2024/03/22/40009-a-cat-not-a-horse-last-minute-discovery/

 

Thanks to Ian Burgham for contacting me on this, and to Arma Hobby for changing their decal sheet at the last minute!

Kudos to @Wojtek Bulhak  @GrzeM  

 

It's very heartening to see when a company is prepared to listen and is interested in input,  and is also good for them as it's more likely that they will be contacted and have information supplied if known it is appreciated, which is a positive feedback loop.  

 

 

 

Edited May 31 by Troy Smith
add pics

[expositor]

Troy, thanks for this thread and as usual, sharing your expertise.  

 

Jim

[Wm Blecky]

@Troy Smith did you ever put that thread up?  I'd most certainly like to see and print it for my own records to use when I build one of these Hurricanes.

[Troy Smith]

10 minutes ago, Wm Blecky said:

did you ever put that thread up? 

Do you mean the IID one?

No, but I will do.   

[ClaudioN]

Any comments about those supposed "invasion stripes"?

 

Many, many years ago "The story of Nicki" by Ian Burgham appeared on navismagazine.com (no longer extant, I believe). This is a reported sentence by Lt.-Cmdr Allen Burgham:

“NF 700 was the aircraft whose back I broke by hitting the rundown with the tail wheel on March 2, 1944. NF672 is called “Nicki”. My records indicate that 7N was the identifier of NF691. NF672 was labeled 7K and was the aircraft I was flying when I shot down a Junkers 290 in March of 1944.”

 

March 1944 seems a bit early for D-day stripes, so the question is: were they actually there? and, if so, were they D-day stripes at all?

[Work In Progress]

There were definitely no D-Day stripes in March