klr Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, Ad-4N said: Hoping for the eventual B-24D with optional P4BY-1 USN markings. Then they will have my hard earned. Airfix are you following this thread? The changes from the D to H series were extensive. The only PB4Y-1 we are likely to see from Airfix will be based on the B-24J (very likely just Ford-built). Likewise, the only RAF versions will be GR.VI and B.VI based on the H or J. I'm afraid if the Hasegawa or Academy D offerings don't cut it, then you may be waiting for a very long time. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klr Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 3 minutes ago, pengland007 said: Realistically, I'd imagine they would cater to the RAF versions, and most likely a J. I cannot see them doing L or M versions. Snap! I was just writing the same myself in response to the post about the D version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 54 minutes ago, pengland007 said: Realistically, I'd imagine they would cater to the RAF versions, and most likely a J. I cannot see them doing L or M versions. Besides nose glazing and possibly turret fairing changes, whats more different about an L or M version that would discount these versions from the base fuselage parts being offered? I’m not suggesting it can, rather I’m not aware of whats so different between a H, J, L or M. Cheers.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) I refer you to the book Consolidated Mess, which goes with considerable detail into all the variations of the nose-turret Liberators. They were built in several factories, with differences in each separate production batch from each factory. Then you will be aware of what discourages anyone attempting to actually get all these variations into a model. EDIT: correct title. Sorry for anyone who tried to find it by the wrong one. Edited April 12 by Graham Boak 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said: Besides nose glazing and possibly turret fairing changes, whats more different about an L or M version that would discount these versions from the base fuselage parts being offered? I’m not suggesting it can, rather I’m not aware of whats so different between a H, J, L or M. Cheers.. Dave It's a nightmare in detail, like Sherman tanks, the book title Graham refers to below is not a joke. 58 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: I refer you to the book Consolidated Me4ass, which goes with considerable detail into all the variations of the nose-turret Liberators. They were built in several factories, with differences in each separate production batch from each factory. Then you will be aware of what discourages anyone attempting to actually get all these variations into a model. If the base kit is as good as it appears, I forsee various bits of AM catering for the specific bits and pieces if Airfix don't, and I suspect they won't even try, but does look set up for some variations. @Colin @ Freightdog Models? Gap for you 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad-4N Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 18 hours ago, klr said: The changes from the D to H series were extensive. The only PB4Y-1 we are likely to see from Airfix will be based on the B-24J (very likely just Ford-built). Likewise, the only RAF versions will be GR.VI and B.VI based on the H or J. I'm afraid if the Hasegawa or Academy D offerings don't cut it, then you may be waiting for a very long time. That is the beauty of this site, B-24 expertens to guide the way. Hasegawa B-24D it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 "B-24 experten"? That is a curious Luftwaffe "what-if?", but it did make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKinksFan Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 33 minutes ago, Ad-4N said: Hasegawa B-24D it is. Unfortunately it's very hard to find, B-24J is more readily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klr Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 15 hours ago, Ad-4N said: That is the beauty of this site, B-24 expertens to guide the way. Hasegawa B-24D it is. 😄By no stretch of the imagination would I call myself that. As often happens with such major kit releases, I find myself learning on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 My kit is on the way from Jadlam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On 09/04/2024 at 18:07, Sabrejet said: "B-24 experten"? That is a curious Luftwaffe "what-if?", but it did make me laugh. They actually flew the B-24….so it is possible to have B-24 experten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 15 minutes ago, janneman36 said: They actually flew the B-24….so it is possible to have B-24 experten Didn't "experten" roughly equate to "ace"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 22 hours ago, Sabrejet said: Didn't "experten" roughly equate to "ace"? I think so but the remark was made about B-24 experts on this site 😉 cheers, Jan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKinksFan Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Here's an in-box video with very good close-ups. https://youtu.be/Inqa6iQuioU?si=TStZ04inc46IRpjg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I fancy building one of these in British markings. I don't think these were used by Coastal Command, but I suspect there might have been some in CBI? Anybody know if any of this type of B-24H were used by the RAF? if so which serials? @Geoffrey Sinclair production block / bu nos / serial tie-ups? TIA 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 There certainly were Coastal Command aircraft with the Emerson nose turret, and quite a few B-24H delivered to the RAF (excuse me for not chasing up all the details as to which). That's not counting the ones transferred from the 8th AF, which I presume did all end up in Bomber Command. RAF B-24H can be found in Oughton's book on the Liberator for Air Britain, with individual histories. Identifying which ones had noses which would match the Airfix kit (or be easily modified to) is another matter, taking us back to Consolidated Mess for the details. But if you are happy with just getting that nose turret in Coastal White, yes there are several. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 26 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: There certainly were Coastal Command aircraft with the Emerson nose turret, and quite a few B-24H delivered to the RAF (excuse me for not chasing up all the details as to which). That's not counting the ones transferred from the 8th AF, which I presume did all end up in Bomber Command. RAF B-24H can be found in Oughton's book on the Liberator for Air Britain, with individual histories. Identifying which ones had noses which would match the Airfix kit (or be easily modified to) is another matter, taking us back to Consolidated Mess for the details. But if you are happy with just getting that nose turret in Coastal White, yes there are several. Hi Graham, l don't have either Air Britain or Consolidated Mess, hence the question. I've just got the latest wingleader on the CC Liberators, from what I can see all bar 1 of the Liberators with nose turrets that served with RAF CC were J's, or a few L's,the exception being BZ970 which was a B-24H-1-CF. RAF mark no. doesn't appear to correlate with Consolidated mark/block numbers either. The purpose of the question was to try and establish which, if any, RAF Liberators match or can easily modified from the new Airfix kit. I have a stash of Hasegawa/Eduard kits which are planned for CC schemes, and a couple each of DK Decals and Kits at War Decals which feature RAF Liberators It might be easier to ID any of these as being B-24H's? - TS530, TT343, KH393, KH160, KL574, KL629, BZ938, KK320, KN746, BZ721, EW166 The kit purports to represent a B-24H-10-FO or B-24H-15-FO - so built by Ford at Willow Run Just a thought, would a Ford Willow Run B-24J look more like the Airfix B-24H than a Consolidated Fort Worth B-24J (Hasegawa/Eduard Kit) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 One of the main differences is in the additional windows in the nose in the later blocks. One use for RAF might be a 100 Group aircraft - 233 Squadron had a number of H-15-FOs transferred from the USAAF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Certainly easier: TS530 was a B-24H-20 The rest appear to be J/B.VIs or Mk.Vs. B-24H deliveries to the RAF appear to be all in the serials BZ, EV and EW, in Oughton's table, but at the moment I can't don't have to hand the link between US serial and variant. I think this is in Consolidated Mess. However BZ970 is 42-64431, whereas the other BZ are in the 2-640xx range. This could be a hint... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: BZ970 is 42-64431, whereas the other BZ are in the 2-640xx range. This could be a hint... 42-64431 is a CF (Fort Worth) aircraft, as are all of: 63752 to 64236 and 64395 to 64501 this is all per The B-24 Liberator, by Allan G Blue Edited April 12 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Certainly easier: TS530 was a B-24H-20 The rest appear to be J/B.VIs or Mk.Vs. B-24H deliveries to the RAF appear to be all in the serials BZ, EV and EW, in Oughton's table, but at the moment I can't don't have to hand the link between US serial and variant. I think this is in Consolidated Mess. However BZ970 is 42-64431, whereas the other BZ are in the 2-640xx range. This could be a hint... From Consolidated Mess (I have it as an ebook) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 The only B-24H received by the RAF "from the factory" was BZ970, Taken on Charge 16 February 1944, Air Britain and Air Arsenal North America says B-24H-1 42-64432 became BZ970 (Its USAAF card says accepted 13 August 1943, earmarked for Britain October, sent for modification, to ATC Dorval for ferrying 5 February 1944). The other B-24H were theatre transfers, the only official document I have is an ADO-478 report which says, B-24H transferred in November 1944. 41-29568 (contract AC-18723 Fort Worth), 41-28868 (AC-18722 Douglas) 1 from contract AC-26992 Fort Worth, serial not given, not considered a transfer (became BZ970) 16 from contract AC-21216 Ford, serials not given, not considered transfers. The British Air Commission and Lend Lease says 18 transfers, all in Britain, 1 each from AC-18722 and 18733 and 16 from AC-21616, it gives the US serials but not the RAF ones. Air Arsenal North America agrees with this while saying they were for 223 Radio Countermeasures squadron in Bomber Command (reformed in August 1944) and gives the tie ups, presented here in RAF order TS519 / 41-29568 / H-15 / Fort Worth TS520 / 41-28868 / H-15 / Douglas TS521 / 42-52483 / H-15 / Ford TS522 / 42-52712 / H-15 / Ford TS523 / 42-52620 / H-15 / Ford TS524 / 42-52753 / H-15 / Ford TS525 / 42-52771 / H-15 / Ford TS526 / 42-52572 / H-15 / Ford TS527 / 42-52591 / H-15 / Ford TS528 / 42-52731 / H-15 / Ford TS529 / 42-94856 / H-20 / Ford TS530 / 42-94891 / H-20 / Ford TS535 / 42-94813 / H-20 / Ford TS536 / 42-94771 / H-15 / Ford TS537 / 42-94847 / H-20 / Ford TT340 / 42-94797 / H-20 / Ford VB904 / 42-52766 / H-15 / Ford VD245 / 42-52681 / H-15 / Ford In Addition Air Arsenal North America says another 3 B-24H were transferred in January 1945 in the Mediterranean to support partisan supply operations TW758 / 41-29278 / H-10 / Fort Worth (in book as 42-) TW759 / 42-52205 / H-10 / Ford TW762 / 41-28722 / H-10 / Douglas (in book as 42-) B-24H Serials, maker, No. a/c, Block 41-28574/28639 Douglas 66 B-24H-1 41-28640/28668 Douglas 29 B-24H-5 41-28669/28752 Douglas 84 B-24H-10 41-28753/28941 Douglas 189 B-24H-15 41-28942/29006 Douglas 65 B-24H-20 42-51077/51103 Douglas 27 B-24H-20 42-51104/51181 Douglas 78 B-24H-25 42-51182/51225 Douglas 44 B-24H-30 41-29116/29187 Fort Worth 72 B-24H-1 41-29188/29258 Fort Worth 71 B-24H-5 41-29259/29335 Fort Worth 77 B-24H-10 41-29336/29606 Fort Worth 271 B-24H-15 41-29607/29608 Fort Worth 2 B-24H-20 42-50277/50354 Fort Worth 78 B-24H-20 42-50355/50410 Fort Worth 56 B-24H-25 42-50411/50451 Fort Worth 41 B-24H-30 42-64432/64440 Fort Worth 9 B-24H-1 42-64441/64451 Fort Worth 11 B-24H-5 42-64452/64501 Fort Worth 50 B-24H-10 42-7465/7717 Ford 253 B-24H-1 42-7718/7769 Ford 52 B-24H-5 42-52077/52113 Ford 37 B-24H-5 42-52114/52302 Ford 189 B-24H-10 42-52303/52776 Ford 474 B-24H-15 42-94729/94794 Ford 66 B-24H-15 42-94795/95022 Ford 228 B-24H-20 42-95023/95288 Ford 266 B-24H-25 42-95289/95503 Ford 215 B-24H-30 Douglas 66 B-24H-1, 29 B-24H-5, 84 B-24H-10, 189 B-24H-15, 92 B-24H-20, 78 B-24H-25, 44 B-24H-30, Total 582 aircraft. Ford 253 B-24H-1, 89 B-24H-5, 189 B-24H-10, 540 B-24H-15, 228 B-24H-20, 266 B-24H-25, 215 B-24H-30, Total 1,780 aircraft. Fort Worth 81 B-24H-1, 82 B-24H-5, 127 B-24H-10, 271 B-24H-15, 80 B-24H-20, 56 B-24H-25, 41 B-24H-30, Total 738 aircraft. Totals 400 B-24H-1, 200 B-24H-5, 400 B-24H-10, 1,000 B-24H-15, 400 B-24H-20, 400 B-24H-25, 300 B-24H-30, Total 3,100 aircraft. Other serials mentioned above, BZ721 D-45, BZ938 D-20, EW166 J-20, KH160 J-80, KH393 J-90, KK320 J-100, KL574 L-5, KL629 L-15, KN746 L-20 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Lucas Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 When I was looking at the RAF use of the B-24H as a possible subject of a 'Colour Conundrum' article a couple of months ago, the only 'H' models I found were those supplied to 223 (Bomber Support) Squadron in Bomber Command. I evidently missed the three in the Middle East. If everything goes according to plan, the resulting article should appear in the June and July issues of Scale Aircraft Modelling. 223 Squadron also used a number of 'J' models and these are also covered, which might be of interest to anyone wanting to have a go at modelling a Bomber Support Liberator using the new Hobby Boss kit in 1/48. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 42 minutes ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said: The British Air Commission and Lend Lease says 18 transfers, all in Britain, That's brilliant Geoffrey, exactly what I was looking for, just need to reasearch the markings for these 11 minutes ago, Paul Lucas said: If everything goes according to plan, the resulting article should appear in the June and July issues of Scale Aircraft Modelling. I'll keep my eye out for that so I can mark my own homework 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 From B-24 Liberator by Allan G Blue page 210 Theatre transfers to RAF in ETO: 41-28868, 41-29568, 42-50744, 42-51226, 42-51350, 42-51529, 42-52483, 42-52572, 42-52591, 42-52620, 42-52681, 42-52712, 42-52731, 42-52766, 42-52771, 42-94771, 42-94797, 42-94813, 42-94847, 42-94856, 42-94891, 44-10421 returned US control April 1945, 44-10533, 44-10574, 44-10594, 44-10597, 44-10611, 44-40380, 44-40457. Total 30. 42-52753 is not mentioned. Theatre transfers to RAF in MTO: 41-11906, 41-28722, 41-29278, 42-52205, 42-64341, 42-78080, 42-78096, 42-78110, 42-78113, 42-78129, 42-78143, 42-78144, 42-78153, total 13. All except 41-11906 and 42-78129 returned to US control after VE day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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