Stew Dapple Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Ah I'm glad you got back to it mate, that's suddenly looking almost done and nicely done too Cheers, Stew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: With those painted and drying, I applied some fairly over-the-top dirt. The Buchons in the movie appear in various states of cleanliness, and film studio artists tend to be fairly impressionistic in their application of grime so I did likewise. Did you see that picture of Yellow 5 with the Spitfire that you posted on Jan 26th. Filthy! As for your standards dropping, you must be getting down to just above normal Human then. Your red 10 Buchon looks great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 Thank you both. You're very kind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 The Buchon was the only model I completed last year, and I did virtually nothing over the holidays just passed either. I did decide to do a little bit on the Spitfire though, and it's approaching being ready for paint. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 I had Ultracast exhausts lying about for the Eduard Spitfire, which as well as just being exceptionally nice, allow me to fit the stacks later, which is nice. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 The Buchon turned out perfect to my eye, bravo Jamie! I'm keen to see what follows after the Spit in your collection... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Nice result with the CASAschmitt thing Jamie Promise I'll pay more attention to your progress with this Spitfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k5054nz Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 2:54 AM, Col. said: Nice result with the CASAschmitt thing Jamie Hispanoschmitt and CASAkel 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 Unfortunately the Spitfire wasn't as ready for paint as I thought, with some "ghost seams" waving at me after a light airbrushing with some whatever was left over in the airbrush at the time. As much as I find Mr Surfacer easy to use for seam filling, I am convinced it shrinks a lot as it cures and even melts away under solvent paints so this time I decided to just dab thick CA onto the offending areas. After more sanding we are back here, ready for me to make bold claims about readiness prior to proving the status with another priming coat. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 There were still defects... Hopefully this is the last round of sanding! I've since polished that dab of green off the carb intake... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 Colour Conundrum I wanted to model MH434 for a specific reason as stated at the start of this thread. I have been watching the Battle of Britain film DVD on my PC to pause and screen capture and have been particularly impressed by the continuity efforts which hitherto had been lost on me. MH434 wore the code AI-H for at least some scenes, and this aircraft is none other than the "Monkeys can fly better than that" / "Dagga Dagga Dagga" lad named "Simon" who first tries to land wheels-up when introduced into the film, flies the same aircraft again for his "lesson" with the boss (Robert Shaw) and it's this aircraft he's shot down in by the so-called "hun in the sun" after becoming separated from the squadron during a formation turn. I think it appears 16 times in the film wearing these squadron codes. One of the clips with Simon walking back to the aircraft with the C/O walking to his (the Dagga Dagga Dagga lesson) the aircraft wearing AI-H has a 3 bladed Rotol propeller. I don't know if this was fitted to MH434 for continuity reasons or whether another airframe was painted with the codes for this particular scene. In all the flying shots of AI-H, the propeller blur is undoubtedly MH434's own 4-bladed propeller. Firstly, the underside colour on these aircraft isn't Sky. I had entertained the idea that they were white underneath but several images of the underside of the aircraft show a distinction between the underside colour and the white of the Type A roundels. It's not white. It's very light, very cool in hue, and very, very low in saturation. I think I will try a few experiments with some custom mixes based upon white. Next is the serial number. This is either in shadow, too far away to make out, masked by actors or just out of frame. I think, based upon the above composite image of the top half of the number, snipped either side of the ground crew asking Simon if his undercarriage lever was a bit sticky, I think it might be N3317. What do you all think? In the shot where Simon shuts down the engine after his near-miss landing incident, there is a gunsight present. Oh dear. I omitted it. In a later sequence of MH434 in flight during the lesson with the boss the gunsight isn't there. I think I'm ok! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) N3317 looks plausible to me, but I leave it to the Spitfire experts wether it IS plausible. The underside? A little Sky, a little RLM 65 and a lot of white may do the mix. Are the two in flight pictures (supposed to be) showing the same plane? (the roundel to shell-ejection-chute distance seems to vary) Edited January 11, 2022 by Jochen Barett shoot! Make that "chute" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Memory says the colour may be a very light duck egg green. Popular IIRC around the early/mid 60's for modelling purposes. I think Airfix did it in a bottle, I know I used it back then. I even saw a similar colour used on Luftwaffe models. I blame black and white photo's in early Airfix magazines. Only the cover had kodachrome! Much research has been done into colours since then though. So I may be wrong. I also fail colour blindness tests! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 7:30 PM, Jochen Barett said: N3317 looks plausible to me, but I leave it to the Spitfire experts wether it IS plausible. The underside? A little Sky, a little RLM 65 and a lot of white may do the mix. Are the two in flight pictures (supposed to be) showing the same plane? (the roundel to shell-ejection-shute distance seems to vary) They are supposed to be the same aircraft, but it's possible the same aircraft were painted one way, then another, then perhaps back again. I know the production of this film went way over budget. I don't know whether good value for money was obtained from all aspects of the filming and props used On 1/10/2022 at 8:01 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Memory says the colour may be a very light duck egg green. Popular IIRC around the early/mid 60's for modelling purposes. I think Airfix did it in a bottle, I know I used it back then. I even saw a similar colour used on Luftwaffe models. I blame black and white photo's in early Airfix magazines. Only the cover had kodachrome! Much research has been done into colours since then though. So I may be wrong. I also fail colour blindness tests! Based upon these thoughts and my own which align with them, I thought I'd give this a go. It's a very pale blue colour. It's looks slightly greener in person than my Google Pixel camera portrays is. I'll decide how to proceed from here later after work is finished. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 The left in-flight pic has a rather dominant under wing "blister" not visible in the right in-flight-pic and absent on your model ... on the ground there is "something", but let's avoid looking too closely, it could lead to counting guns and ejection chutes (Shoot! How could I do that typo?) in the wing. Value for money? An interesting question, but when it comes to "art" (and not just box office numbers) who can determine the "value" of a movie? And who follows the story and the actors carrying it - and who complains about a Casa representing a Messerschmitt or an M48 representing a King-Tiger? When it comes to that Sky / skyblue underside (and look at the underwing roundel's white compared to the fin flash and fuselage roundel too!) and its greenish tint, we will have to consider the reflection off the grass in the ground shot and its absence in the in-flight shots. But what are you going to do about the numer of guns? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said: The left in-flight pic has a rather dominant under wing "blister" not visible in the right in-flight-pic and absent on your model ... on the ground there is "something", but let's avoid looking too closely, it could lead to counting guns and ejection chutes (Shoot! How could I do that typo?) in the wing. Value for money? An interesting question, but when it comes to "art" (and not just box office numbers) who can determine the "value" of a movie? And who follows the story and the actors carrying it - and who complains about a Casa representing a Messerschmitt or an M48 representing a King-Tiger? When it comes to that Sky / skyblue underside (and look at the underwing roundel's white compared to the fin flash and fuselage roundel too!) and its greenish tint, we will have to consider the reflection off the grass in the ground shot and its absence in the in-flight shots. But what are you going to do about the numer of guns? I missed those blisters - argh! I am 99% sure the guns were not really there. Most of the cannon equipped Spitfires in the film had their weapons removed and the red fabric patches are applied to represent the original 8 x .303 wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 At least they bothered to do the eight red patches, gun smoke trails and ejection holes (be it black paint or real cut holes). I feel sorry about mentioning the blister 😇 Wonder if the script-girl or continuity person (or other people of the production) is (are) still alive. When I look back at some work I did, I will probably remember other details (or struggle) than the precise equipment and its paint. I had one or the two "demanding projects" for a few customers (admittedly not coming close to war though), but don't ask me, what the color of the carpet in the office or the upholstery of my chair was! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackroadkill Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 23 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: Hopefully this is the last round of sanding! If I had a quid for every time I said that....! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) I seem to recall an article in Fly Past about the filming of BoB. In that it suggested the art department were responsible for colours and looking right (on whichever brand used of) filmstock was more important than historical accuracy. In colour pics I've seen published of the film planes the colours vary a lot, Spitfire underside ranging between almost proper sky to pale grey or blue, such that I wondered if they had used the same paint as the pale grey-blue(?) of the Buchons! But the variations in published photos could easily be down to the photographers, the colour cast of slides varied tremendously between Kodak, Agfa and Fuji that I recall, and no doubt other makes differed again. Then any exposure differences, filters (e.g standard to put on a UV to protect the lens, again one manufacturer's UV filter will differ from anothers) and the weather on the day all conspire to ensure that the colour in a photo only records the colours as that photo's chemical response to light recorded it at the time. Then development and latterly storage of colour slides may give further variance. Probably the most accurate choice would be to watch the film again and then throw a dart at your chosen paint company's colour chart. As for codes, they were just stick on plastic and varied for shots so the right code matched story even if it was the wrong plane. MH434 played 9 different aircraft, but some seven different aircraft wore AI-H for different shots, from MkV to XIX - according to excerpts from the Rudhall book online. He also says Spitfire underside were "duck egg blue"! To reference another film: "Good Luck" 😎 Edited January 11, 2022 by malpaso Code info 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 3:21 PM, malpaso said: I seem to recall an article in Fly Past about the filming of BoB. In that it suggested the art department were responsible for colours and looking right (on whichever brand used of) filmstock was more important than historical accuracy. In colour pics I've seen published of the film planes the colours vary a lot, Spitfire underside ranging between almost proper sky to pale grey or blue, such that I wondered if they had used the same paint as the pale grey-blue(?) of the Buchons! But the variations in published photos could easily be down to the photographers, the colour cast of slides varied tremendously between Kodak, Agfa and Fuji that I recall, and no doubt other makes differed again. Then any exposure differences, filters (e.g standard to put on a UV to protect the lens, again one manufacturer's UV filter will differ from anothers) and the weather on the day all conspire to ensure that the colour in a photo only records the colours as that photo's chemical response to light recorded it at the time. Then development and latterly storage of colour slides may give further variance. Probably the most accurate choice would be to watch the film again and then throw a dart at your chosen paint company's colour chart. As for codes, they were just stick on plastic and varied for shots so the right code matched story even if it was the wrong plane. MH434 played 9 different aircraft, but some seven different aircraft wore AI-H for different shots, from MkV to XIX - according to excerpts from the Rudhall book online. He also says Spitfire underside were "duck egg blue"! To reference another film: "Good Luck" 😎 Thanks for this. In that case, I'm just going to crack on or I'll end up with paralysis by analysis! As for those blisters, according to the earlier photographs I have saved, I mistakenly removed the damned things at the beginning. Doh! I fashioned new ones from the kit bomb pylons. I'll get these touched in with the airbrush. I think I'll stick with that colour - it's the pale blue-grey we make for Su-27s, incidently. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskin Air Services Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 I do have the book "the making the battle of Britain". I'll have to dig it out as it does have a lot information about the individual planes used in the movie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 What do we think of a version with a teeny tiny bit of Sky added to the pale blue? It's very, very powerful. I initially used a less tiny bit of Sky and the pale blue turned to weak Sky, which wasn't what I planned at all! I think I may have still overdone it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 It looks good to me, actually a tad better than the previous version. Wonder if anybody has a well preserved archive containing good samples 1940 and '68 duck eggs. Checking https://youtu.be/KwBcnbutpjw?t=87 and https://youtu.be/QBEQpF_LazE?t=364 and http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/spitfire.htm and https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690599/Spitfire-saw-action-WW2-starring-1969-film-Battle-Britain-sold-1-5m-spending-40-years-Texas-barn.html and https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1968-battle-britain-movie-35mm-494039779 I do not feel the urge to criticize your choice and I could hardly object to an added tiny dash of blue on the other side (leave it as it is). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 PS: This whole thing is poison. http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/pics/aircraft/spitfires/P144_Spitfire_MH434_in_flight_side_profile.jpg see the underwing blister? Result after counting prop blades? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in the Saddle Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 The serial looks like N3317, so at least that’s confirmed.👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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