Jabba Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 In the early 1980s the RAF was fed up with waiting for the Foxhunter radar to work properly on the Tornado F2, deciding to cancel the whole project. It was decided to buy what was considered the best aircraft for long range interception at the time, which was the Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Having looked at this aircraft it was discovered that Grumman were planning on making a better version of the current production model, so it was decided to lease up to 4 Sqn worth of the F-14A, whilst waiting for the D version. Arriving in 1985 the 2 Sqns that were operating the venerable Lightning were chosen to operate the aircraft first, with 2 Sqns operating from RAF Wattisham would then follow on. Although the RAF was experimenting with Grey camo schemes it was decided that the A versions of the Tomcat would be painted in the Dk Geen/ Dk Grey/ Lt Grey colour scheme. This aircraft is operated by No56 Sqn from RAF Wattisham in early 1987. The D version of the Tomcat arrived in 1989 and was given to the Sqns that operated the Phantom FG1 based at RAF leuchars. In time the leased F-14As were given back to the US Navy and replaced with F-14Ds. The F-14As wre designated F-14K by the Americans, F1 by the RAF, whilst the F-14Ds were F-14M and F2 respecively. I used a Hasegawa F-14A kit and the marings ewere from various sources. 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcap Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 An excellent 'what if' model project and it also begs the question 'why not?' given the subsequent performance (or lack of) by the RAF F2 fleet. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Bob Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Nice model and idea but, the MoD bean counters would never stump up for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeyboy76 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Love a Tomcat & like I always say, “everything looks cool in a camo wrap” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 The RAF were offered F-14s when they looked at extending the F-4 fleet in the wake of the Falklands, but thought that F-4Js would provide more commonality with the existing fleet of F-4K/Ms. how wrong they were! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Oh yes! Right squadron and everything 👍 Would have been the right choice all round. Very nice job, the chequers are perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Devilfish said: The RAF were offered F-14s when they looked at extending the F-4 fleet in the wake of the Falklands, but thought that F-4Js would provide more commonality with the existing fleet of F-4K/Ms. how wrong they were! But were they actually offered F-14s or was it more a matter that the RAF looked at a few options including the Tomcat ? My understanding is that the RAF looked at the F-14 several times during the troubles that affected the Tornado ADV program but never with any serious intent. In any case I personally never considered the F-14 as the best solution for the RAF, even if I'm a big fan of the Grumman's big cat. The F-15 would have been a better solution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner14 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Giorgio N said: But were they actually offered F-14s or was it more a matter that the RAF looked at a few options including the Tomcat ? My understanding is that the RAF looked at the F-14 several times during the troubles that affected the Tornado ADV program but never with any serious intent. In any case I personally never considered the F-14 as the best solution for the RAF, even if I'm a big fan of the Grumman's big cat. The F-15 would have been a better solution Oh I don’t know Giorgio. Operating out of Scotland with Phoenix would have been a great option for the U.K. Air Defence Region. Better than Tornado ADV and much more reach out and touch than the F-15. But, we’ll never know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairystick Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 According to Turkey drivers, the F-15 did make a nice chew-toy for the F-14's to play with... 12 hours ago, Sundowner14 said: Oh I don’t know Giorgio. Operating out of Scotland with Phoenix would have been a great option for the U.K. Air Defence Region. Better than Tornado ADV and much more reach out and touch than the F-15. But, we’ll never know.... Tom Clancy's novel puts that operational possibility into play in Red Storm Rising. Hitting the Russian Bears and Backfires operating over the top of the UK and down to Iceland, as they try to attack the Atlantic convoys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 21 hours ago, Sundowner14 said: Oh I don’t know Giorgio. Operating out of Scotland with Phoenix would have been a great option for the U.K. Air Defence Region. Better than Tornado ADV and much more reach out and touch than the F-15. But, we’ll never know.... The problem with the Tomcat was that when compared to the Eagle it was more expensive to purchase and operate and required more maintenance while not having any edge in performance. The Eagle was lighter, faster and more manouverable while having a very good range and a reliable weapon system capable of dealing with pretty much every threat in the '80s. There's a reason why of the many countries that evaluated the Tomcat only Iran bought the type while the F-15 had much more export success. The Phoenix also suffered from similar problems: it was a very expensive missile and its reliability record was not really that impressive. There's also the matter that BVR attacks at the kind of distance the Phoenix could achieve were allowed in very few theatres so fielding such a missile could have well been useless. I can see only two potential advantages of the Tomcat for the RAF: it was equipped with the same IFR system and this would have meant not having to modify anything in this respect. And it was a two-seater, in the same way as the Phantom and Tornado ADV, so certain operational procedures would have remained the same. Two interesting advantages that however would have been offset by many disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner14 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 @Giorgio N all hypothetical of course but... F-15s air-to-air refuelling would have to have been resolved. For Phoenix think Sparrow to Skyflash. TARPS capability... Good game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat89 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 This is wonderful! I had plans for a F-14 in old RSAF colours for a long time. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 An F-14 is always a treat, and what a tasty treat this is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) On 4/20/2020 at 11:06 AM, Giorgio N said: But were they actually offered F-14s or was it more a matter that the RAF looked at a few options including the Tomcat ? My understanding is that the RAF looked at the F-14 several times during the troubles that affected the Tornado ADV program but never with any serious intent. In any case I personally never considered the F-14 as the best solution for the RAF, even if I'm a big fan of the Grumman's big cat. The F-15 would have been a better solution From what I understand, from a source who knows a lot about this, the US government offered F-14s from storage, when the British government started asking about F-4Js Also, I very much doubt we would have had Phoenix. It's way too expensive. We would most likely have had Skyflash Edited April 24, 2020 by Devilfish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I think we'd have been forced to give them up when the F-14 program was cut. Given that timeframe, it might have been a good opportunity to switch to the Super Hornet which might have had some bearing on the configuration of the new carriers. A SH/F-35 carrier wing really would make us a force projection player, but there you go. There you go, Mark, a 56 Sqn or 800 NAS Super Hornet perhaps? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Devilfish said: From what I understand, from a source who knows a lot about this, the US government offered F-14s from storage, when the British government started asking about F-4Js Also, I very much doubt we would have had Phoenix. It's way too expensive. We would most likely have had Skyflash Thanks Paul, sounds very interesting ! There are still some doubts on the whole thing though, when the UK got their F-4Js there weren't really Tomcats in storage, something that happened a few years later (post Desert Storm). At the same time it's true that in those same years there was the hope of a quick and wide introduction of F110 powered aircraft in the USN, so maybe they were expecting to have them ? Agree on the Phoenix... but as said before I doubt that the RAF would have ever taken this option, the Tomcat was an expensive aircraft to maintain and the cost of setting up a whole logistic and training chain for a single unit would have been hard to justify. Different story in case the Tornado ADV program had failed, but here from what I know the RAF did indeed check the Tomcat but never very seriously. There's a funny anecdote on the old Osprey book on the Tomcat where a Grumman rep. asked a British aviation journalist if the RAF was really interested in the F-14 and the journalist replied "that's what I wanted to ask YOU"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 24/04/2020 at 09:08, Alan P said: There you go, Mark, a 56 Sqn or 800 NAS Super Hornet perhaps? 😉 Super what Al, never. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abandoned Project Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Yet another "if only". Absolutely superb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) On 4/24/2020 at 9:08 AM, Alan P said: There you go, Mark, a 56 Sqn or 800 NAS Super Hornet perhaps? 😉 Like this? Not Super Hornets though.... DSC_1054 by Paul Carter, on Flickr Edited April 28, 2020 by Devilfish 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 I could see either of them working. Especially the 27 Sqn one with my initials on the tail 😎 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Eazy Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 @Jabba I love the Tomcat and it is cool to see a What-If model of it being used by the RAF. Makes me wonder if we would have not lost HMS Sheffield and HMS Coventry during the Falklands War if we had the Tomcat. Although I can see that you mention in your What-If story, we would have got them too late for the Falklands War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 02/05/2020 at 12:17, Major Eazy said: @Jabba I love the Tomcat and it is cool to see a What-If model of it being used by the RAF. Makes me wonder if we would have not lost HMS Sheffield and HMS Coventry during the Falklands War if we had the Tomcat. Although I can see that you mention in your What-If story, we would have got them too late for the Falklands War. Also the Royal Navy would probably still not had got their Super Carrier that they wanted, and would still operating from the "Through Deck" carriers with the Sea Harrier. If they did get the Super Carrier then they may have operated the Tomcat (if bought) and then the Falklands may not have come about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 15 hours ago, Jabba said: Also the Royal Navy would probably still not had got their Super Carrier that they wanted, and would still operating from the "Through Deck" carriers with the Sea Harrier. If they did get the Super Carrier then they may have operated the Tomcat (if bought) and then the Falklands may not have come about anyway. Oh, I don't know....maybe it would, lol 20170413_171856_zpsqzlbj4yi by Paul Carter, on Flickr 20170413_171917_zpsugkmr27t by Paul Carter, on Flickr 20170413_172009_zps2ngh3h7m by Paul Carter, on Flickr 20170413_172056_zpswlwr8l8p by Paul Carter, on Flickr 20170413_171945_zpsyoprffzz by Paul Carter, on Flickr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Eazy Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 6:54 AM, Devilfish said: Oh, I don't know....maybe it would, lol 20170413_171856_zpsqzlbj4yi by Paul Carter, on Flickr 20170413_171917_zpsugkmr27t by Paul Carter, on Flickr I'm like Po the Panda, from Kung Fu Panda, when I look at your photo of a Royal Navy F-14 Tomcat What-If. I'm going around like "Ooh! That is cool!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 The F-14 always looks good in RAF/RN colours but there was never any chance of it happening in real life. At the time the UK was developing the Tornado ADV we had committed to the Tornado on the basis of a work share based on how many we were buying. We were having 385-ish airframes, and we only needed 220 IDS aircraft. Furthermore we felt the need to preserve and support our aerospace capabilities. As it was, and admittedly it did take a while, the Tornado F.3/Foxhunter combination turned out pretty well, particularly when combined with JTIDS and AMRAAM. In any case the Tomcat was expensive, maintenance heavy and at the time the F-14A was the only option, with its less than stellar TF30 engines. Had we gone to the US it would more likely have been the F-15, though I suspect it would have been a two-seat fleet only as RAF doctrine saw that as the optimum crewing level for the operational environment the ADV was to fight in. There were plenty of rumours regarding both types when we needed extra fighters post-1982, but it was only ever going to be extra Phantoms. They were available, they were a known variable and even the F-4J offered more commonality with RAF Phantoms then the F-14 or F-15. Besides, one squadron of an entirely different aircraft type? No chance. Better to have re-equipped both Lightning squadrons and reform a third squadron to make it worthwhile, but that would also have pushed the cost up. Had we still had fleet carriers in the 1980s the F/A-18 would have been the only option. Again, it was a lot cheaper, was also multi-role (this was at a time when the F-14 was air to air only) and therefore could replace both the Phantom AND the Buccaneer. In any case I don't think even the CVA-01 was truly big enough to safely operate F-14s. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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