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Canberra PR7


BillF67
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Can I just say how jolly miffed I am that, from what I can see, no one has delivered a Canberra PR7 since Frog in 1955. Nearly 70 years. Plenty of Spitfires Mk 77 Q  (pilot wearing blue socks edition) or ME 109 or ………. etc etc but a Canberra PR 7? It’s not as though it’s a niche topic, the Canberra. And even if a PR7 can’t be produced, how about a resin conversion? Seems to me I can buy almost anything else - wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t get a set to convert a Hurricane to an F35B. 

 

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I agree, a PR7 (or PR3) would be nice, but in fact all "gold fish-bowl" Canberras are less than ideally represented in the kit market. I have built the S&M (AMP) Canberra and I must say it wasn't an easy kit. Nevertheless, it is probably the best 1/72 Canberra on the market today.

 

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@BillF67 I assume you are thinking 1/72 scale? AtoZee Alycat do a resin conversion in 1/48. or you could do it the old way with a fuselage plug and some chopping and filling like I did with my two. If it's 1/72 then what's needed is one B.2 kit and one B.6 kit with a small amount of forethought in the breakdown of the kit you could get a PR.3 from the B.2 kit and a PR.7 from the B.6 kit. All you need is to do it the way Preston did the real thing. I say two separate kits as there are significant differences between the the B.2 and B.6 which most if not all manufacturers have missed or chosen to ignorer? Though the PR.3 was a development of the B.2 other than the obvious length difference and bomb bay/flair bay configuration there were also other details that were diferant between the two, the same goes for the B.6/PR.7, but given the fact that no one is likely to be bothered to get the small details right then one of each as a generic representation would be the most cost effective solution. The two kits could then form the base for the other variants of the two types. Other than FROG ( B(I)8) and High Planes no one has come close to an accurate Canberra in 1/72, the over priced under researched S&M kit was a big let down and the Italeri B.57B is an even bigger travesty! Aerocub did produce a full vac-form PR, Canberra fuselage in 1/72.  

 

I live in hope that some day some one will get around to producing a good accurate B.2 type Canberra in 1/72

 

John  

    SUP1JF.jpg

SUPRRM.jpg

SUPM5P.jpg

John

 

 

Edited by canberra kid
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Whilst scrumming around in my stash I came across a resin Canberra fuselage which was supposed to be mated with an Airfix B57 wings to make a B2. Also supplied a vacform canopy. Can't for life of me remember what make it was but I remember googling it not long ago and nothing came up. Must go and have a reminder of what make it was. Must be at least 25 years old .

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John,

 

As I’ve said elsewhere in these forums, my modelling skills are (a) 50 years unused and (b) pretty pants to begin with. Never the less, I would be happy to have a go at a commercial resin (or at a real push, vacform) conversion. I have no hope of scratch building unfortunately. That doesn’t stop me being totally awed by the skills shown in Britmodeller and your Canberra is no exception. It’s a beauty.
 

I just wonder why none of the manufacturers make one? It seems that, say Airfix produce a PR9 so Italieri think we’ll do a better PR9 then Tamiya decide they can do better still then Hasagoatit decide that if they’re doing PR9s then so will we then somebody else picks up some old PR9 moulds and churns some more out because everybody is doing PR9s and so on. It’s too easy to keep churning out derivatives of the same a/c all the time. A couple of times it would be nice if they went off piste.

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1 hour ago, BillF67 said:

John,

 

As I’ve said elsewhere in these forums, my modelling skills are (a) 50 years unused and (b) pretty pants to begin with. Never the less, I would be happy to have a go at a commercial resin (or at a real push, vacform) conversion. I have no hope of scratch building unfortunately. That doesn’t stop me being totally awed by the skills shown in Britmodeller and your Canberra is no exception. It’s a beauty.
 

I just wonder why none of the manufacturers make one? It seems that, say Airfix produce a PR9 so Italieri think we’ll do a better PR9 then Tamiya decide they can do better still then Hasagoatit decide that if they’re doing PR9s then so will we then somebody else picks up some old PR9 moulds and churns some more out because everybody is doing PR9s and so on. It’s too easy to keep churning out derivatives of the same a/c all the time. A couple of times it would be nice if they went off piste.

That's fair enough, it's not everyone's cup of tea, I agree that there should be a mainstream kit of the PR.7, after all it is my favourite production Canberra, but I could only imagine it as part of a s sires of kits like I said as a version produced from a B.6. kit. even then I'd be very surprised as PR aircraft come well down the pecking order for mass production kit types. The best bet would be a resin conversion. I think Revel should take the plunge, after the Germans flew those lovely orange B.2's and most of the Canberra Mk.s were based in Germany at some time, So come on Revel I'm waiting for your email! 

 

John       

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I’ll second that. We all need more Canberras in our lives! @canberra kid your PR7 looks gorgeous.

 

I suppose I’m asking too much for Airfix to do a new tool B2 in 1/48 with options for a T4, and a TT18 with 100 Sqn decals …

 

Having said that, the Alley Cat conversion set in 1/48 for the T17 was excellent, even I managed to produce something mildly reminiscent of one of Wyton’s finest …

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235085461-ee-canberra-t17a-wh902ek-no-360-squadron-raf-wyton-1987/

 

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18 hours ago, BillF67 said:

It seems that, say Airfix produce a PR9 so Italieri think we’ll do a better PR9 then Tamiya decide they can do better still then Hasagoatit decide that if they’re doing PR9s then so will we then somebody else picks up some old PR9 moulds and churns some more out because everybody is doing PR9s and so on.

I'm not sure I fully understand the point here. I think that is almost certainly the case with "popular" types (F-4, F-14, F-16, Spitfire, P-51 etc etc); I am not sure it is really true of less fashionable types such as the Canberra (all versions), where it seems the reverse is true. That is, once somebody makes a kit of the type,  no matter how good / mediocre / bad the product is, it seems to close the door for any other manufacturer  doing it - presumably on the basis that its cornered what's percieved to be a "limited market".  Hence so few decent kits of post war British types until Airfix  focused on them in the last decade. And these are often types in world wide service (e.g. Hunter F6, Meteor F.8 etc).

 

Its a shame that the Airfix Canberra series were produced in the Humbrol era and that the current Airfix design team with all their talent couldn't  have a crack at them. It seems unlikely this will happen anytime soon, with Canberras already in the Airfix range. Although they never did release a 1/72 Canberra B2/B6 in the most recent series, so I still hold on to a flicker of hope for an eventual new Airfix 1/72 Canberra to replace their old '70s kit (a seperate PR.7 would make a perfectly senisble follow-up release option to a new kit - with a new fuselage). Who knows... if it appears on people's wish lists... we got a nice new Vulcan, and a Canberra certainly fits the Airfix pattern of new release subject choices. 

 

Rich

Edited by RichG
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Sorry Rich - the PR9 was a bad example. Substitute any of the clutch of “popular” subjects, some or most of which you mention, that get very well supported.

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It's odd that of all the Canberra's the PR.9 has the most representations in model form, give it was a reconnaissance aircraft, and the smallest production run of any Canberra. 

 

John 

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1 hour ago, canberra kid said:

It's odd that of all the Canberra's the PR.9 has the most representations in model form, give it was a reconnaissance aircraft, and the smallest production run of any Canberra. 

Yes I have thought that too. Probably to do with being the last variant in front line RAF service and seeing operational service in the 2003 invasion of Iraq and, up to June 2006, in Afghanistan.  I personally have a soft spot for the B(I).8 and I'm currently working on a 1/48 Airfix kit recently acquired for a good price on ebay. I had a go at it when it was first released but gave up due to frustration with the kit's accuracy; this time I am coming at it more relaxed and just trying to do a reasonable build & paint job, improving what I can including removing most of the kit panel lines, as every Canberra I've ever seen seems to be as smooth as a baby's proverbial 👶.  If this turns out OK I had thought of trying a Far East B.15 (I have several Airfix B.2s in the stash - acquired when they were being sold off cheap from Modelzone I think).I never really thought about a PR version, but looking at that @canberra kid build I just might check out the AlleyCat conversion and do a PR.7. If so I'd like to do an 81 Sqn aircraft although suitable markings would be a challenge.

 

Rich    

Edited by RichG
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I wouldn't say that the PR.9 really was the most represented in kit form, afterall I can only remember 2 1/72 kits, from Matchbox and later Airfix. The B.8 also saw 2 kits, from Frog and again Airfix, so would be equally badly represented....

I would agree with Rich that the fortunes of the PR.9 as a model subject are due to this being the last variant to be used in "first line" roles, so maybe they were seen as more interesting compared to the earlier variants. Moreover, when Matchbox issued their PR.9 there were already a B.6 and a B.8 on the market, so it made sense for them to issue a variant not yet available.

Regarding a new Airfix Canberra in the future, nobody knows yet, apart maybe from Airfix. For sure they have the numbers relative to the sales of their previous kits of the type, so they will be able to assess the potential of such a subject... or maybe the lack of such potential ! We all assume that a new Canberra would be a great seller, but maybe the market of people really interested in buying one at the kind of price that we could expect from a new kit is not as high as we think....

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Nice analytical answer from Giorgio.👍

So whilst on the subject of this aircraft I have the airfix B2/20 ,which a lot of people dont seem to be entirely enamoured with....something about its nose ....is this rectified by miliput (other epoxy fillers are available 👌)?

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The opposite problem I'm afraid, it is too wide from the nose transparency back to the cockpit.  Major rework required (or a spare Frog nose/fuselage).  If the newer Airfix kit is ok in this area then maybe some kind of x-kit can be arranged - but I wouldn't know.

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

I wouldn't say that the PR.9 really was the most represented in kit form, afterall I can only remember 2 1/72 kits, from Matchbox and later Airfix. The B.8 also saw 2 kits, from Frog and again Airfix, so would be equally badly represented....

I would agree with Rich that the fortunes of the PR.9 as a model subject are due to this being the last variant to be used in "first line" roles, so maybe they were seen as more interesting compared to the earlier variants. Moreover, when Matchbox issued their PR.9 there were already a B.6 and a B.8 on the market, so it made sense for them to issue a variant not yet available.

Regarding a new Airfix Canberra in the future, nobody knows yet, apart maybe from Airfix. For sure they have the numbers relative to the sales of their previous kits of the type, so they will be able to assess the potential of such a subject... or maybe the lack of such potential ! We all assume that a new Canberra would be a great seller, but maybe the market of people really interested in buying one at the kind of price that we could expect from a new kit is not as high as we think....

Xtrakit also issued a 1/72th PR. 9.

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2 hours ago, junglierating said:

Nice analytical answer from Giorgio.👍

So whilst on the subject of this aircraft I have the airfix B2/20 ,which a lot of people dont seem to be entirely enamoured with....something about its nose ....is this rectified by miliput (other epoxy fillers are available 👌)?

If it's the 1/72 old kit then the problem with the noes forward of the canopy is it's too fat, you need to thin it down a hell of a lot to get close to the correct profile, or you can paint over part of the transparent nose cap up to the edge of the optical flat window, this won't correct the issue completely but it does improve the look. The other problems are the engine nacelles are a bit undernourished, the cockpit interior is a joke. It does have some nice features, the main wheels are the only example of the pre mod B.6 wheel good for early Avon 109 Canberra's. Over all shape and dimensions are good, better than the S&M kit.

 

John    

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1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Not 1/72, but did Revell issue their B-57A as a B. Mk.2 at one stage?

Yes, in 1962. I was looking through some old Airfix Magazines a few days ago and saw a review of it.

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On 20/07/2021 at 13:20, Jabba said:

I am sure that Aeroclub did produce a conversion many years ago, so is probably very difficult to find.

 

They did! it could be used for PR3/7 or cut of the extension for a B2/6 I build one about ten years ago, I have a photo some where? brb

 

Miko (currently searching photo collection!)

 

Here it is! there's a build up on UAMF I think? not sure? I'm not welcome there anymore, not sure why?

 

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My ancient Ericsson phone cam hides a multitude of sins?!!?

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I wonder why everybody ignores the High Planes range of Canberras?  They are IMO the best shape and best detailed models out there.  Yes, they require a little more work but apart from that they are quite rewarding in their outcome if care is taken.  I have built the B.2, B.6, B-57B/D and various versions of them.  They are IMO the bees knees.   I found the Matchbox PR.9 undernourished, the Airfix B.2/B.20 overfed and Frog ones were OK. Mach 2 isn't worth mentioning.

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13 hours ago, stever219 said:

Xtrakit also issued a 1/72th PR. 9.

 

Oh yes, forgot that one. A short run kit but a modern enough one.

Speaking of which, the B.8 was also offered in short run form by High Planes in their wide range of Canberra variants

 

10 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

I wonder why everybody ignores the High Planes range of Canberras?  They are IMO the best shape and best detailed models out there.  Yes, they require a little more work but apart from that they are quite rewarding in their outcome if care is taken.  I have built the B.2, B.6, B-57B/D and various versions of them.  They are IMO the bees knees.   I found the Matchbox PR.9 undernourished, the Airfix B.2/B.20 overfed and Frog ones were OK. Mach 2 isn't worth mentioning.

 

They're often ignored because they were never easy to get. Add to this that the little more work they require is not little at all and many modellers would be put off by the look of the parts on these kits. I consider myself a decently experienced modeller but while I have several HP kits in my stash (including a B.2) I'yet to find the willingness to start one...

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11 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

 

 

 

They're often ignored because they were never easy to get. Add to this that the little more work they require is not little at all and many modellers would be put off by the look of the parts on these kits. I consider myself a decently experienced modeller but while I have several HP kits in my stash (including a B.2) I'yet to find the willingness to start one...

I guess that depends on where you live. When I was in the Netherlands there was always a good selection at the Luchtvaart Hobby Shop (now called The Aviation Megastore). They have 5 different marks in stock right now, if their on-line catalogue is up to date. Not cheap though. I like them, but can well understand if people don't like the sort of work needed.

 

Paul.

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