60s NATO Vs Warsaw Pact in Europe GB Chat

[trickyrich]

they do look close, but the track set would be 3 links short!

 

[Arniec]

That could only happen to you. 😂 But I have used my plastic ones in my build of the scud and they are great to use. You can also let them sag a little. I had a closer look at them and they look to be made movable. Maybe test a few before you use some cash to buy new ones. 😎

 

Cheers,

 

[Wez]

On 13/08/2018 at 16:56, Redstaff said:

I've posted this here as well as my build post (not much progress there TBH) as more people will probably read this one  

 

Good afternoon gents, I'm after a little info about the hunter F6 weapons loadout for 56 Squadron XF526 in the 1960s

I've looked for pics on the web as the Academy options aren't specific to the decal options and seem a bit vague to me, unless I'm being thick which isn't uncommon

 

I need to predrill the wings before I join the 2 halves as I want to dry fit the intakes/fuselage/wings as there is a generic gap issue so I believe

 

The only pic I have found is this one which seems to show the tanks on the outer pylon, but most other hunters seem to have the tanks inner pylon and a hardpoint on the outer for I assume rocket pods?

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XF526

 

Any help greatly appreciated as I've got to the confused stage now

 

Thanks

 

Ian

Ian,

 

Looking at period photos you'll find that Hunters mainly carried the smaller tanks on the inner pylons, the use of rocket pods on the outer pylons is later than the 56Sqn use of Hunters (remember they converted to Lightnings in about 1961).  Hunters of that period used tiered rockets similar to but not the same as seen on late WW.II aircraft however, as 56 was a Fighter (e.g. Air Defence) squadron, I doubt they carried rockets very often.

 

I'd go with the inner pylon and the small tank only.

[John Masters]

Sorry to ask about this as well...I know this isn't a Hunter thread...what about 54 Squadron, 1968?  The Revell kit has large fuel tanks on the inside and the Matra rocket pods on the outside.  Would this have been accurate for the West Raychem-based aircraft or would the rocket pods also be absent?  

 

 

[Col.]

2 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said:

Sorry to ask about this as well...I know this isn't a Hunter thread...what about 54 Squadron, 1968?  The Revell kit has large fuel tanks on the inside and the Matra rocket pods on the outside.  Would this have been accurate for the West Raychem-based aircraft or would the rocket pods also be absent?  

 

 

For an FGA.9 at that time I'd say yes. Silver bodied pods with a black nosecone. I'm away from home at the moment so can't check the Hunter reference pile unfortunatelly to give you any more information.

[John Masters]

Thanks Col.

[DaveyGair]

Hi all, I fancy doing a Fujimi Phantom FG.1 in 43 Sqn markings. The Xtradecal sheet has XV574 in this Sqn circa 1970, would anyone know if this would apply to this aircraft in this scheme late in '69?  A site I looked at has the aircraft delivered in February '69 but that's all I can discover apart from later years.  Here's hoping 🙂

 

Davey.

[Aardvark]

I watched this topic all pages and decided that I, too, should join this GB.

 

Naturally, I can only do the Warsaw Pact model in this GB.

When I looked at which models I had for this period, they were MiG-21F, MiG-21F-13, Su-7, Su-7BM, Su-9, Su-11 and Yak-28PM.

 

Su-9, Su-11 and Yak-28PM not goods model's from A-model, built  will be complicated, so I can not make it on schedule.

 

Su-7 & Su-7BM 

do not fit, because the Su-7 clear fighter is based only in the Far East, the Su-7BM version blue "50" was based in base Birofeld near

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Бирофельд_(аэродром)

Birobidzhan, this is the Jewish Autonomous Region of the USSR it's  too

Far East...so these models also do not fit.

 

MiG-21F-13 from Revell it's not a very good model that requires a lot of improvements and fixes. In principle, I have all the required aftemarket, but the problem is that the board number in  first edition for VVS USSR is generally considered too small, so for the version that does Revell you need to order the part in the form of a new number on decal.

 

Remains the MiG-21F from Modelsvit.

Of course, I could refer to the instructions of Modelsvit where both variants of red "25" and "02" are given as USSR Air Force 60's.

But I did some research and as a decent person I can not fail to mention the following circumstances.

Red "25" is a plane that is in the audience of the Kharkov Aviation Institute, in fact a model was made on it. But the Kharkov Aviation Institute is not an aviation regiment, it's not the first line! How did he get there? He could have gone there from the court 32 IAP from Kubinka near Moscow, because most of the about 100 MiG-21Fs were distributed between 32 IAP and the famous 4 Center  Combat Uses in Lipetsk.

 

Photo Red "02" with bombs is in the book "MiG-21 the birth of a legend" In my opinion, this is a photo from the military trials.

Thus, to date, I do not know the photos of the first line of the MiG-21F. I can only assume that the red "25" entered the Kharkov Aviation Institute from 32 IAP Kubinka, and probably the number red "25" was not repainted.

 

Thus, if these circumstances are not an obstacle, I would like to try to make the MiG-21F red "25" from Modelsvit on this GB.

 

Are there objections?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

P.S.

MiG-21F very hard objects  for identification, because early version MiG-21F-13 of the differences were only K-13 missiles and one gun instead of two guns on the MiG-21F, so when you see the right of the flight without missiles, you have very few opportunities to distinguish the MiG-21F from the early version MiG-21F-13.

Of course, if there are reliable photos of MiG-31F from 32 IARs or 4 Сenter Combat Use, I will make such a plane!

 

P.P.S.

On 7/29/2018 at 2:52 PM, Col. said:

 That'll teach the Capitalist scum a lesson

Two Orders "Friendship of the Peoples"

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Орден_Дружбы_народов

to this Gentlemen!

 

[Col.]

Please excuse my absence and the delayed reply gang but work has been a bit busy this week and 12hr shifts are not leaving me much time or energy to keep up with this GB  Anyway, enough of my whining...

 

On 8/21/2018 at 11:53 PM, DaveyGair said:

Hi all, I fancy doing a Fujimi Phantom FG.1 in 43 Sqn markings. The Xtradecal sheet has XV574 in this Sqn circa 1970, would anyone know if this would apply to this aircraft in this scheme late in '69?  A site I looked at has the aircraft delivered in February '69 but that's all I can discover apart from later years.  Here's hoping 🙂

 

Davey.

Go for it Davey. I'm sure the painters at 43 sqn. would have had XV574 marked up sharpish so she'd have spent most of 1969 looking the part  

8 hours ago, Aardvark said:

I watched this topic all pages and decided that I, too, should join this GB.

 

Naturally, I can only do the Warsaw Pact model in this GB.

When I looked at which models I had for this period, they were MiG-21F, MiG-21F-13, Su-7, Su-7BM, Su-9, Su-11 and Yak-28PM.

 

Su-9, Su-11 and Yak-28PM not goods model's from A-model, built  will be complicated, so I can not make it on schedule.

 

Su-7 & Su-7BM 

do not fit, because the Su-7 clear fighter is based only in the Far East, the Su-7BM version blue "50" was based in base Birofeld near

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Бирофельд_(аэродром)

Birobidzhan, this is the Jewish Autonomous Region of the USSR it's  too

Far East...so these models also do not fit.

 

MiG-21F-13 from Revell it's not a very good model that requires a lot of improvements and fixes. In principle, I have all the required aftemarket, but the problem is that the board number in  first edition for VVS USSR is generally considered too small, so for the version that does Revell you need to order the part in the form of a new number on decal.

 

Remains the MiG-21F from Modelsvit.

Of course, I could refer to the instructions of Modelsvit where both variants of red "25" and "02" are given as USSR Air Force 60's.

But I did some research and as a decent person I can not fail to mention the following circumstances.

Red "25" is a plane that is in the audience of the Kharkov Aviation Institute, in fact a model was made on it. But the Kharkov Aviation Institute is not an aviation regiment, it's not the first line! How did he get there? He could have gone there from the court 32 IAP from Kubinka near Moscow, because most of the about 100 MiG-21Fs were distributed between 32 IAP and the famous 4 Center  Combat Uses in Lipetsk.

 

Photo Red "02" with bombs is in the book "MiG-21 the birth of a legend" In my opinion, this is a photo from the military trials.

Thus, to date, I do not know the photos of the first line of the MiG-21F. I can only assume that the red "25" entered the Kharkov Aviation Institute from 32 IAP Kubinka, and probably the number red "25" was not repainted.

 

Thus, if these circumstances are not an obstacle, I would like to try to make the MiG-21F red "25" from Modelsvit on this GB.

 

Are there objections?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

P.S.

MiG-21F very hard objects  for identification, because early version MiG-21F-13 of the differences were only K-13 missiles and one gun instead of two guns on the MiG-21F, so when you see the right of the flight without missiles, you have very few opportunities to distinguish the MiG-21F from the early version MiG-21F-13.

Of course, if there are reliable photos of MiG-31F from 32 IARs or 4 Сenter Combat Use, I will make such a plane!

 

P.P.S.

Two Orders "Friendship of the Peoples"

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Орден_Дружбы_народов

to this Gentlemen!

 

Thank you kind sir  

By all means please do join in with the Modelsvit MiG-21F Serge as I'm sure the example you have mentioned would have quickly found itself on the front line had the Cold War turned hot. Not that I'm biased towards another Soviet subject of course  Although given that I'm trying to build the MiG-21 F13 from Revell I'm a bit concerned to read the kit has issues  

[Hardtarget]

Is it ok to join in with a Mirage IV and a Yak-28 or a Tu-28 from amodel?

[Col.]

1 minute ago, Hardtarget said:

Is it ok to join in with a Mirage IV and a Yak-28 or a Tu-28 from amodel?

Yes. Yes. Hell yes!

So long as the -28s were based west of the Urals of course

[Hardtarget]

15 minutes ago, Col. said:

Yes. Yes. Hell yes!

So long as the -28s were based west of the Urals of course 

Well the Tu will be Red 01, Russian AF, 64 AR Omsk 1965 and the Yak will either be 1. Blue 22, USSR 1960's; 2. Blue 35, USSR 1960's, dont have any more information that that unfortunately. As Russian aircraft didnt really show their squadron codes on the AD nor airframe numbers its hard to pinpoint which ac served where unless others have any info on the box decals.

 

If in doubt, i could do a Yak-25B Flashlight, -25RV/RRV Mandrake, Yak-27K Flashlight C, or 27R Mangrove.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Hardtarget

[Col.]

16 minutes ago, Hardtarget said:

Well the Tu will be Red 01, Russian AF, 64 AR Omsk 1965 and the Yak will either be 1. Blue 22, USSR 1960's; 2. Blue 35, USSR 1960's, dont have any more information that that unfortunately. As Russian aircraft didnt really show their squadron codes on the AD nor airframe numbers its hard to pinpoint which ac served where unless others have any info on the box decals.

 

If in doubt, i could do a Yak-25B Flashlight, -25RV/RRV Mandrake, Yak-27K Flashlight C, or 27R Mangrove.

That's good enough for me

[Hardtarget]

Just now, Col. said:

That's good enough for me

Awesome, i shall get started.  Been meaning to get those Amodel kits to the bench.

[Aardvark]

17 hours ago, Col. said:

By all means please do join in with the Modelsvit MiG-21F Serge as I'm sure the example you have mentioned would have quickly found itself on the front line had the Cold War turned hot. 

You know, when I was unsuccessfully searching for information about the MiG-21F first front line, I read all 14 pages about the MiG-21F / F-13 topic on airforce.ru. Of the 14 pages of discussion, perhaps about half the discussion pages had nothing to do with the MiG-21F / F-13, but it was about what would happen if a hot war broke out.

Off-topic phenomeno internationale!

However, there is an interesting off-topic.

17 hours ago, Col. said:

Although given that I'm trying to build the MiG-21 F13 from Revell I'm a bit concerned to read the kit has issues 

The main problems have already been described. This is not an exact bubble, a bad air intake and wheels from the train, the rest is trivial. In principle, if there was not for comparison Modelsvit, Revell would be an acceptable model, but ....

I do not want to do Revell, because Modelsvit promised to start selling own MiG-21F-13. And they were going to start selling the MiG-21 F-13 in August 2017 ..... now August 2018 ....as the Russian proverb says: "The promised three years are waiting!" ..... what remains to wait another 2 years!

 

I'll start my topic on Sunday, I need to clean up my desktop a little and also those models that do not yet need to get into the camera's frame .... although I'll be shooting mostly on the mobile phone, because it's so much more convenient.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Aardvark

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello @Aardvark, or anyone else. Im asking you since you seem the most knowledgable about Soviet types ? The MiG-21PF ( Izdeliye 76; NATO "Fishbed-D")   series aircraft ? The wheels I've seen on restored examples are green? Would this be correct ? Or would the be a natural metal color ? Any help you can offer would be appreciated. 

 

Dennis

[Aardvark]

5 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello @Aardvark, or anyone else. Im asking you since you seem the most knowledgable about Soviet types ? The MiG-21PF ( Izdeliye 76; NATO "Fishbed-D")   series aircraft ? The wheels I've seen on restored examples are green? Would this be correct ? Or would the be a natural metal color ? Any help you can offer would be appreciated. 

 

Dennis

Dennis, on most Soviet military aircraft, those wheels that I saw in the photo - have a green disc color. MiG-21 is no exception. Why did this question arise? What makes you doubt?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

There is no such thing as "natural metal" in Soviet aviation. All surfaces of aircraft were first primed, and then painted. Those airplanes that are considered "natural metal" are actually painted over the primer with a paint (lacquer) filled with aluminum powder. The panel effect is created because of the 

nodal assembly. As an example of my own photo of the Su-15:

Yellow colour it's 

primers:

about this is written in the instruction to the decals on the MiG-21 from "Begemot"

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Aardvark

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Thank you sir. Not so much of doubt, but i know that museums sometimes get things incorrect. I thought it best to ask before doing any painting. You seemed quite knowledgeable about the subject. 

 

Dennis

[helios16v]

Back to lurking again.  Still hope to find time to maybe toss the Skyhawk together.  It doesn't help that I missed the start.  Haha.  But I now have a new complication...the air compressor bit the dust.  So now I have something else I get to deal with.  😣

[HansReggelsen]

OK - I'm in as well - I've just made a new tread on the Supermarine Scimitar! 

 

I actually thought I've already signed up for this? 

Must be getting 

 

Cheers 

Hans J

[John Masters]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:11 PM, Aardvark said:

Why did this question arise? What makes you doubt?

I have a question regarding the interior colour of the air brakes and the wheel bays on the Mig-21SM Red 26 from 1968.  What is the colour?  The plans from KoPro say either grey or yellow?  If yellow, a bright yellow or a dull yellow?

 

Also, what kind of armament did this Mig carry on its hard points?  Unfortunately the kit does not seem to supply any machine guns.  Where were they located?

Thank you!

John

[Aardvark]

32 minutes ago, John D.C. Masters said:

On 8/28/2018 at 12:11 PM, Aardvark said:

Why did this question arise? What makes you doubt?

I have a question regarding the interior colour of the air brakes and the wheel bays on the Mig-21SM Red 26 from 1968.  What is the colour?  The plans from KoPro say either grey or yellow?  If yellow, a bright yellow or a dull yellow?

If yellow than it's primers, probably type DLG-1 yellow-green colour, if grey then A-14.

Interesting discussion was on

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67214&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80

 

 

- "bear" question:

"Colleagues, I wanted to consult on the coloring of the wheels bay

. Modelsvit offers the front and fuselage parts of the main dye in silver, and the winged parts in light-sandy. There are vague doubts, based on looking at the photo 

wheels bay

of the MiG-21F-13 (as the nearest available analog), that the base is still silvery covered with a yellowish varnish (although the shades are walking in a wide range reaching gray-green)."

- "A-maketcik" answer:

"It's not varnish, it's a primer. Judging by the board from KhAI, the inner part of the wing is primed entirely, therefore, the color differs from the  wheels bay.
And in wheels bay

in general many power elements are primed, and a sheet of a duralumin - a wall is simple
colors of natural aluminum."

 

So, on early MiG-21 wheels bay was colors of "natural aluminum" with 

wing is primed in different shadow yellow-green, but 

instructions have changed, and they have become gray. However, I do not know on what modification or series this change occurred. In addition, at different factories, these changes could be different in time.

Therefore, I can not exactly answer your question about the color of wheels bay of your MiG-21SM model.

Maybe  ya-gabor have answer?

32 minutes ago, John D.C. Masters said:

Also, what kind of armament did this Mig carry on its hard points?  Unfortunately the kit does not seem to supply any machine guns.  Where were they located?

Machine guns on MiG-21? 

As written in 

http://airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig21sm.html

"Following the MiG-21S appeared MiG-21SM with a two-shaft engine P13-300 and built-in double-barreled gun GSh-23L (by the type of export MiG-21M) with a gas compensator to reduce the dive moment when firing."

So, on MiG-21SM was ordinary for last MiG-21 gun GSh-23L.

 

B.R.

Serge

[John Masters]

Thanks Serge.  How about the underwing armaments?

[John Masters]

Unfortunately that site is in Russian, but I did discover that the twin guns are in a pod on the underside of the fuselage.  Is that correct?

[Aardvark]

3 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said:

Unfortunately that site is in Russian, but I did discover that the twin guns are in a pod on the underside of the fuselage.  Is that correct?

.....hmm.....O.K.

evolution gun on MiG-21:

1. Two NR-30   on 

MiG-21F:

2. One NR-30   on 

MiG-21F-13:

3.As a result of the corrupting influence of the West, the gun was declared an anachronism and was thrown into the garbage!

As result  MiG-21P/PF without gun!

 

4. Based on the results of local football matches using military hockey players

on airplanes, the party acknowledged its mistake and took out the cannon container GP-9 from the garbage which was screwed onto the MiG-21PFM:

5.It is not known for certain , or the scotch tape did not hold the container , or it was constantly forgotten to put it after yesterday's party,  but the party and the government decided to mount the gun tight! So MiG-21SM / M / MF / SMT

and further received GSh-23L:

So, result - twin guns  on the underside of the fuselage for you MiG is  correct!

 

Resource images:

https://coollib.com/b/297475/read

 

4 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said:

How about the underwing armaments?

For which mission?

Air patrol for ground attack on call? NATO intruders intercept?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Aardvark