All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[Graham Boak]

OK.  The DH spinners shouldn't be the same base diameter, as they were specifically designed for each type.  I remember, some years ago before I learnt that,  being confused by the Sea Hurricanes having pointier and apparently longer spinners than the Spitfires.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, PhantomBigStu said:

my mistake I neglected to say I was comparing the dh spinners on both, they point the same yet the spitfire one is slighty larger, also just realised I neglected to say I was referring to the 1/72, 

Hi Stu

 

I think you know what you are referring too, but it's  not always clear. 

 

Right, so you compared 72nd Airfix Mk I spit DH prop with a Airfix (fabric wing) Mk I Dh prop?    The Spitfire DH should be  slightly larger as shown below

Quote

N2358 has the Spitfire DH unit, N2479 has the Hurricane DH unit.

As can be seen the Spitfire DH is wider and blunter, and overhangs the nose ring, the Hurricane DH is more pointed and is correct diameter.

 

the Dh Hurricane unit was also a standard fit on tropical Mk.I s, I believe because of the metal blades, and on Sea Hurricane I's, as Graham says, for the effect of weight counter balancing the hook.

 

As has been stated before, the Hurricane  still suffers from being the 'plain sister' of the Spitfire, and as such there are many omissions in both it's operational history and the detail required by modellers...

Quote

Well interestingly just compared the spinner on the the new airfix mk1 with the spitfire mk1, both should be the same size if I've understood the guide, and they are not. Also comfirmed I have a Hurricane DH prop spare, are there decal sheets out there with suitable options?  

 

as in Mk I hurricanes with Dh props?

Xtradecal do one for fabric wing Mk.I's (though Sammy Allard's plane on that has a metal wing...)

  Which type? The  Spitfire DH was on some early RAF planes, and on the Finnish and Romanian exports.

The Hurricane DH use is detailed above.  

Bear  in mind that his information about  Hurricane  props and spinners is  really not well understood generally, so don't  trust decal sheets to get it right.

 

HTH

 

[PhantomBigStu]

thanks Troy, I now fully clued up now on the spinners and props. I have that decal sheet good to know the error, I'm after a metal winged scheme, I have a corgi diecast in need of a repaint and hoping to spend the minimun to do it  

 

EDIT: brought myself a decal sheet, a avieology vital storm 2, had Nicholsons vc one on it, and as I'm doing the anniversary typhoon seems natural to do it as well

Edited October 14, 2016 by PhantomBigStu

[PhantomBigStu]

Me again, Nicholsons one on the sheet is show as B type Camo, but multiples profiles have it as A type? Which should I go for?

[Graham Boak]

Go with the Aviaeology.  Partly because it is the most recent, mainly because they are very good at researching their schemes.

[StevSmar]

My latest Hurricane mystery is the wing reinforcement which is just outboard of the gun bays. In this area the wing skins are doubled and somehow transitioned to the inboard and outboard wing spars.

 

Does anyone have nice close up pictures that could help solve the mystery?

[Graham Boak]

I suspect this is an external strap going over both inner and outer wings, and covering the spar joints.

[Seahawk]

A couple of photos of relevant areas of a preserved example towards the bottom of the 1st page of this thread, courtesy of Troy Smith:

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234977358-hurricane-iid-in-seac-service/

 

[StevSmar]

13 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I suspect this is an external strap going over both inner and outer wings, and covering the spar joints.

No, I was referring to the "double" skin that's just outboard of the guns.

Here's an image from the maintenance manual:

Unfortunately not the cleanest scan, but the area I'm referring to is labeled "reinforcing plates", just outboard of the guns. It's a pity section CC and BB are not clearer.

 

I'll have a look through my photos to see if I have a photo that shows the area that confuses me.

[StevSmar]

This is a photo from JNE Restorations website for AM274. Even though this is a MkIIC wing, the reinforcement is the same. The area I'm referring to is the area that's at the top right of the photo. How the reinforcement integrates with the main spars and the intermediate spars is a mystery to me.

[StevSmar]

Found this photo in my collection:

You can almost work out how the inboard main spar extrusions integrate with the outboard spar extrusions, looks like a lap joint to me.

 

If you have a nice close up photo I'd love to see it!

[tango98]

Steve, Happy New Year. I do have some material on this which I will dig out for you over the next couple of days. It will have to wait until then because I'm right in the midst of reorganizing my Hurricane files into a more accessible 'state' 

In other words, I'm putting them back into their proper order after rearranging my filing system.

 

Cheers

Dave

[PaulR]

On 10/13/2016 at 11:29 PM, Troy Smith said:

Hi Stu

 

I think you know what you are referring too, but it's  not always clear. 

 

Right, so you compared 72nd Airfix Mk I spit DH prop with a Airfix (fabric wing) Mk I Dh prop?    The Spitfire DH should be  slightly larger as shown below

 

the Dh Hurricane unit was also a standard fit on tropical Mk.I s, I believe because of the metal blades, and on Sea Hurricane I's, as Graham says, for the effect of weight counter balancing the hook.

 

As has been stated before, the Hurricane  still suffers from being the 'plain sister' of the Spitfire, and as such there are many omissions in both it's operational history and the detail required by modellers...

 

as in Mk I hurricanes with Dh props?

Xtradecal do one for fabric wing Mk.I's (though Sammy Allard's plane on that has a metal wing...)

  Which type? The  Spitfire DH was on some early RAF planes, and on the Finnish and Romanian exports.

The Hurricane DH use is detailed above.  

Bear  in mind that his information about  Hurricane  props and spinners is  really not well understood generally, so don't  trust decal sheets to get it right.

 

HTH

 

Ah - that picture of N2358 - is the armoured windscreen the sort that is supplied in the Airfix fabric wing kit - or is it the later type? For that matter, when were the earlier and late armoured windscreens introduced? Curious to know!

Cheers, P

[StevSmar]

Not sure where I found this while trolling, but it is an interesting photo in that it shows the ever elusive Tac R in the distance. If you have a nice close up photo of the Tac R camera installation that would be great, it seems like images showing this are as rare as hen's teeth:

 

[occa]

What colour is this ?

 

 

Caption says:

'A member of the ATS attends to the undercarriage of a Hawker Hurricane'

Photo is taken from Etienne's Flickr photostream ...

 

Sorry if this was discussed already ...

[Tbolt]

2 hours ago, occa said:

What colour is this ?

 

 

Caption says:

'A member of the ATS attends to the undercarriage of a Hawker Hurricane'

Photo is taken from Etienne's Flickr photostream ...

 

Sorry if this was discussed already ...

 

 

I'm not sure what sort of coating that is, almost like a temporary protective one, but it looks like it's been sprayed in some areas and slapped on with a brush in others, quite roughly in both cases.

[StevSmar]

4 hours ago, occa said:

What colour is this ?

 

Caption says:

'A member of the ATS attends to the undercarriage of a Hawker Hurricane'.....

I don't believe the origin of this photo has been confirmed, the most likely consensus is that it's a training facility and it looks like a staged photo.

 

As to the colour, the yellow looks like Zinc Chromate to me, I don't think the colours of the photo are quite accurate though. Zinc Chromate is generally yellow with a hint of green.

[Graham Boak]

I agree about the Zinc Chromate, but the precise shade varied and I've certainly seen similar, if later.  However, I find this picture odd.  I don't understand why any of the undercarriage should have been sprayed after fitting.  Particularly the tyres, which would seem to be very bad for the rubber.  Nor would there normally be any need to spray the locks fitted around the sliding part of the oleos.  If you look at what appears to be hydraulic actuators, the two at the bottom of the picture have been sprayed ZC after fastening to the mounting, the one top left has been sprayed before connection, and the one top right isn't visible at all, but certainly not connected.  There also appears to be riveted plates over the secondary support part of the leg.

 

I've come to the belief that this does not show a Hurricane under assembly but gash parts being used as a training aid.

[Nick Millman]

It's on a production jig. The frame, rails and wheels are visible lower left and an exactly similar wing can be seen behind the lady's head.

 

Looks like zinc chromate primer, which a certain IPMS site would have you believe only the US used during WW2. Blog readers with access to my 'Myths and Legends of Zinc Chromate' article will know better. The basic pigment for zinc chromate (yellow) primer has different hues as Pigment Yellow 36 Colour Index (CI) 77955 and Pigment Yellow 36:1 CI 77956 and CI 77957 - from greenish yellow to bright orange-yellow.

 

Nick

[Tbolt]

58 minutes ago, Nick Millman said:

It's on a production jig. The frame, rails and wheels are visible lower left and an exactly similar wing can be seen behind the lady's head.

 

Looks like zinc chromate primer, which a certain IPMS site would have you believe only the US used during WW2. Blog readers with access to my 'Myths and Legends of Zinc Chromate' article will know better. The basic pigment for zinc chromate (yellow) primer has different hues as Pigment Yellow 36 Colour Index (CI) 77955 and Pigment Yellow 36:1 CI 77956 and CI 77957 - from greenish yellow to bright orange-yellow.

 

Nick

 

If it's it production why has a lot of it appeared to have very badly applied - over spray on the tyres I can understand as they were probably just tyres used in production, but some of it looks like they've let a 5 year old loose with a paint brush and a spray gun?!

 

Reference you blog is it possible to get access to it, I tried the other day when we were talking about OD and meant to ask you.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Tbolt

[Max Headroom]

This picture has been posted before. It's originally a Life image and I recall Edgar commenting that this was Canadian.

 

As to why it was painted in the dark wearing a blindfold.......?

 

Trevor

[Nick Millman]

45 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

 

If it's it production why has a lot of it appeared to have very badly applied - over spray on the tyres I can understand as they were probably just tyres used in production, but some of it looks like they've let a 5 year old loose with a paint brush and a spray gun?!

 

No idea! But it could also be asked that if it is not a production view why is it on a production-type jig with a wing just like it right behind! Maybe it's for re-built and refurbished Hurricanes which were going to be flogged abroad. Maybe it went into another shop where it was cleaned up after the anti-corrosive treatment?

 

Nick 

[Tbolt]

1 minute ago, Nick Millman said:

 

No idea! But it could also be asked that if it is not a production view why is it on a production-type jig with a wing just like it right behind! Maybe it's for re-built and refurbished Hurricanes which were going to be flogged abroad. Maybe it went into another shop where it was cleaned up after the anti-corrosive treatment?

 

Nick 

 

No I agree it does look like it's in production which is why I was question the quality of the finish and originally though it was a temporary protective finish.

[Graham Boak]

Well, if you wanted to set up some kind of training rig it would have be like the real thing.  Yes, I saw the one behind, but that doesn't explain the other features which appear so odd for a genuine production photo.  I can see the possible value of "dummy" tyres and possibly even undercarriages, although not until the part needs to come out of the jig, and certainly not if they are going to be oversprayed every time they are used..  It doesn't explain the appalling quality of the work and the overspray of what should be genuine working parts.  I do withdraw the comment on the rivetted panels over the support leg slots, which look very permanent and not at all what you'd expect to see on some kind of temporary cover.  They could however simply be the normal door.

 

 AFAIK, all major rework and refurbishing for other customers was done in the UK, although there will need to have been Canadian facilities for major overhauls on examples retained in Canada.  However, whether this work is new or overhaul/refurbishment, the same criticisms apply.

[mhaselden]

That pic is certainly...different.  I tend to agree with Tbolt in wondering whether this is a protective finish.  There are a couple of places where the yellow colour is missing and what appears to be Interior Green.  At the extreme right of the photo is one small patch just to the right of the starboard undercarriage bay (with a similar patch in the same location near the port bay).  The starboard undercarriage leg also has areas that look Interior Green.  Those areas plus the rather slapdash application suggest (to me, at least) some kind of protective coating applied ontop of the regular colours.