Andre B Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I have seen so many Spitfire's, Hurricane's and other RAF aircraft models with soft edged camouflage patterns. Is this really correct? I can't remember that I've seen a single true RAF aircraft in real life with soft edged camouflage pattens. They all had hard edged camouflage. From the Gladiator to the Harrier. Or have I missed something? Best R. Andre Edited February 8, 2014 by Andre B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 This is discussed at incredible length here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29585-british-camo-rubber-masks/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Procopius beat me to the draw! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Laidlaw Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 ...incredible length...[/url] Understatement of the decade! . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) A three inch overspray, which I believe was the amount permitted, would amount to .042" in 1/72 scale. Why worry? Edited February 8, 2014 by Brian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regulus Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The photo in the opening post of this thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234944232-148-westland-whirlwind-classic-airframes/page-4 (also on the cover of Victor Bingham's excellent book) certainly doesn't favor the hard-edge only position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 There was a war on, don't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I can't remember that I've seen a single true RAF aircraft in real life with soft edged camouflage pattens. They all had hard edged camouflage. Assuming this isn't a troll, then you probably haven't looked hard enough. There are plenty of photos showing both. Check your references for the aircraft you're modelling. Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 A three inch overspray, which I believe was the amount permitted,It wasn't; the largest dimension, that I've found (so far) was 2", between upper and lower colours; one ex-sprayer told me that he had to work to half an inch, when spraying freehand. When the war started "blended" finishes were the norm, but, in 1940, during (failed) attempts to get a (cellulose) smooth finish which would remain matt, a circular went to every Resident Technical Officer, detailing what to do, and it included the following:- "To assist in avoiding dry or partially dry spraying at colour boundaries, it is now agreed that colour merging need not be done; masks can be used for the different colours and the resulting sharp boundaries between colours will be accepted." Due to the farcical nature of a few responses on the "rubber mat" thread, I ceased adding to it, but, if there's genuine interest, maybe it's time to resurrect it? Edgar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 If you read the thread in Procopious' link, you'll see that generally, hard edge is the rule, however, there will always be exceptions - aircraft weren't always repainted by members of the Painter & Finisher trade (aka Dopers), nor were they always repainted in a spray shop. It was quite common for the riggers and fitters on a Sqn to repaint or at least touch up the paint at a dispersal with a brush, roller, sponge or rag so these would cause variations. Brian in post 5 quotes a 3 inch overspray was permitted, but my chats with an ex-wartime Doper confirms Edgar's assertion that 1/2" was what they worked to. In certain areas - particularly those that are most visited by both ground and aircrews there would be some wear on the paint which would inevitably lead to some feathering of the demarcation which would give the impression of soft edges. In the thread in Regulus' post, I see a Whirlwind that's generally painted with hard demarcations, there has been some blending caused possibly by wear and tear which gives the impression of soft edges in a couple of areas but by no means all! That picture also raised some interesting points outside the scope of this thread about how paint finishes wear. So in summary, I'd generally go with hard edges - your best guide would be, as always photo's of the aircraft you want to model! Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thanks for the anwers and opinions. One question... I am living in the metric world. How many millimeter's is 042" ? Regards Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the anwers and opinions. One question... I am living in the metric world. How many millimeter's is 042" ? Regards Andre Slightly over 1mm however, if you take the worked to standard of overspray as being 1/2" that equates to less than 0.18mm in 1/72nd scale Wez Edited February 8, 2014 by Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 0.18 mm... Hard edges then! :-) Thanks everyone for your time! Best Regards Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 IMHO, models with masked camouflage look masked, while prototype planes, even with hard edged demarcations, don't. For me the best compromise is to use raised masks. There are various ways to do this; FWIW I use sewing thread attached to my masking tape a few mm in from the edge. Just make sure to spray perpendicular to the tape to avoid excess overspray. Cheers, Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre B Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 I knew the technic wery well how to make both soft and hard edges. But as this is an "brittish forum" I taught it would be a good idea to put the questions here about he edges... Thanks / Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 IMHO, models with masked camouflage look masked, while prototype planes, even with hard edged demarcations, don't.Please don't get the idea that I have an axe to grind on this; I do research in order to find out what happened. What modellers make of the information is entirely up to them. Edgar 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Gordon Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 We are all grateful and wiser for your efforts Edgar,many thanks from me at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 We are all grateful and wiser for your efforts Edgar,many thanks from me at least. hear hear, thanks Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 We are all grateful and wiser for your efforts Edgar,many thanks from me at least. Absolutely! I had no intention of attacking or challenging Edgar with my post, nor did I intend to insult anyone's intelligence. I just think, from a modeling point of view, that the starkness of a hard-masked edge doesn't look right. Totally FWIW. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If you find your hard edge camou is too stark, there's a number of techniques you can try - I'd suggest just one, but you can apply in any combination: 1) - add a few drops of light grey to both your camou colours. This is directly taking scale effect into consideration, as objects become further from view, colours lose their vibrancy. 2) - a final overall thin mist spray of a light neutral colour, 3) - a thin filter wash or glaze - again over both camou colours, this will help tie them closure together regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If it helps, a good technique for achieving a very slight overspray is to take silly putty (don't know what it is called in GB or if you folks even have it over there) roll it into thin little "worms" then establish the camouflage pattern as you press it lightly down, then when you actually spray your paint apply it directly from the top and not at an angle, this way you will get the very slight softer edge you may be looking for. This works for 1/48 and 1/32 aircraft, for smaller scales the overspray effect would probably be way out of scale. Hope this helps. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Another method that I've used is to make up a 50/50 mix of the two colours and then paint a thin line around the demarcation between the two colours. I think this works well for 1/72 models, but not sure about larger scales HT H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguygriffy Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 What about good old fashioned newspaper rolled into 'worms' and applied in the same way as you describe Spitfire Addict? As long as these are fairly tight they should lift just enough on the unsecured edge to allow a decent blend when paint is sprayed perpendicularly. Not sure where I learnt this, certainly not my own idea. Clearly this works best on larger scales which is why I am about to use the technique on my son's Spitfire pedal car restoration. Wish me luck as it's been a while since I last did this sort of thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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