The price of modelling,phew!

[Bullbasket]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

No, seriously.  Don't.  Often a timely reinstall can cure most PC and laptop ills, so make sure you back up your files in preparation before he gets better.  these days a reinstall isn't the chore it used to be, but if you still don't fancy it, wait for the unclean one to recover

It all happened after I tried to install an update for the email system which I use. As soon as I clicked on "install", the laptop dropped anchor and has been dragging it ever since.

I suppose that I could go back to just before the installation. What do they call that move?

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

I suppose that I could go back to just before the installation. What do they call that move?

 

Uninstall, or restore?  Probably one of the two.

[Bullbasket]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Uninstall, or restore?  Probably one of the two.

Restore. Thanks Mike.

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

Restore. Thanks Mike.

We'll see you in a week, when your PC guy has recovered his health, and the screwed up restore point.

[Bullbasket]

26 minutes ago, Mike said:

We'll see you in a week, when your PC guy has recovered his health, and the screwed up restore point.

Many a true word.........

[spruecutter96]

12 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I found a good looking Tamiya item on the bay at 15 quid.

What a great bit of kit. Used it this afternoon. What a revelation. Six inch blade, good chunky handle and it resembles something the Japanese use to dismantle Tuna fish.

Very much agreeing with you, Pete in Lincs. When I first bought the Tamiya saw, I thought it was huge. Then I tried it out. Despite it's size, it produces the finest, cleanest, most accurate cut in plastic and resin I've ever seen. It's a GREAT bit of kit and - I would say - a must-have item. Fifteen squids looks like a bit of a bargain, compared with a lot of the Far Eastern tools you see now. 

 

Cheers. 

 

Chris.  

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

We'll see you in a week, when your PC guy has recovered his health, and the screwed up restore point.

Oh ye of little faith........done

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

Oh ye of little faith........done

Lucky! Has it improved the issue?  Might be worth some feedback to the email company if so

[upnorth]

This is quite an interesting conversation, expecially when nostaligia is brought up.

 

It reminds me a lot of conversations I had with members of the generation before me in my native Canada, in the years following my graduation from college in the mid 1990s.

 

I found myself with 10,000 Canadian dollars of student loan debt and a constant refrain from potential employers in my field of study saying "Come back when you have more experience".

 

I was lucky enough to be living at home, but frustrated beyond belief at paying the loans off with mostly unrelated minimum wage work and infrequent freelance jobs related to my field of study.

 

It was frustrating enough dealing with those things. Worse was getting admonished by those of the generation before me for being "careless" and "wasteful" with my money and how they were so much better about those things than my generation.

 

Through their pink tinted glasses of nostalgia, they ignored the fact that they were tending to their post secondary education at a time when I was just entering primary school (mid 1970s). They also ignored the oil crisis of the late 1970s and the rampant hyperinflation of the early 1980s that followed, both of which irrevocably changed financial realities.

 

Try to ask them what tuition cost in their day and they started getting evasive. They knew very well that tuition costs were out of control and what they had paid was paltry compared to what my generation was getting stuck with.

 

Nostalgia blinds the nostalgic to anything negative from their prefered time period that could easily prove them wrong about their perception of it.

 

Where myself and the hobby are concerned, I've bought one model in the last couple of years. It wasn't too bad as it was an Eduard kit, so domestic product for where I'm living these days that I could order straight from the manufacturer.

 

I gave up on stashing ages ago. I used to impulse buy, but that seems to be a habit I've successfully broken. At some point along the way, the stash ceased to be that source of endless possibilities to me and became an overwhelming wall of "Why did I buy THAT?!".

 

My understanding of the rising cost of models is that it's largely atributable to importers and distributors. I've met many people who would happily order a Hasegawa kit straight from Japan online rather than pay a local shop price with all the markups that entails after the shop has added their cut to the price. It makes a lot of sense when you think about how many 30+ year old kits Hasegawa puts in in new boxes with nothing but a fresh set of decals to make them different from previous releases.

 

Another aspect, again where nostalgia plays in, comes when a manufacturer decides to takea chance on a subject that a lot of people are asking for, but then end up not buying; They have to offset that in the price of other kits.

 

As I understand, the Airfix 1/72 Nimrod was a good example of that. Lots of people were asking for it for many years and Airfix decided to answer their call. From things I've heard, that kit didn't exactly fly off shelves in ways that demand indicated it might. 

 

The last time we had the Modellbrno show (2019, I think), I talked with a few people visiting from the UK and they said it was not uncommon to see multiples of the Nimrod kit in shops over there at deep discounts just to move them.

 

I don't know if they were exagerating a bit, but a kit that size would be a sizable loss if not successful and they'd have to recover the cost through rising prices on other kits.

 

OK, that post was rather longer than I intended, but the subject took me back a bit.

 

Thanks for bearing with me if you read it all.

[Bullbasket]

52 minutes ago, Mike said:

Lucky! Has it improved the issue?  Might be worth some feedback to the email company if so

It certainly has. Everything is back to working a it was before the long drag. If I can find a contact address, I'll drop them a line. At least I don't have to worry about the laptop doc coming around and giving me covid.

[UberDaveToo]

Here's an example of what the issue is here, maybe 350 bucks for a 1/32 might not be so terrible, considering its size and all.

 

 

This may be a really cool, highly detailed kit, but in this scale, these subjects are dinky. Yet Sprue Brothers list price for the kit is $102. Granted, they include shipping in the price, but that's $51 apiece for two 1/72 WWII airplanes. It's a subject near and dear to my heart, but it will have to wait at this price...

[upnorth]

15 minutes ago, UberDaveToo said:

This may be a really cool, highly detailed kit, but in this scale, these subjects are dinky. Yet Sprue Brothers list price for the kit is $102. Granted, they include shipping in the price, but that's $51 apiece for two 1/72 WWII airplanes. It's a subject near and dear to my heart, but it will have to wait at this price...

 

That is insane!

[Giorgio N]

There sure are some pretty expensive kits in the shops today but is it really true that it's impossible to find cheaper ones ?
I'm looking here at a few kits I bought over the last few months from various European shops and how much I paid... in no particular order and in Euro notes (I'll let you do the conversion)

Bought at full price:

Sword RF-8A: €20. Is it expensive for a 1/72 Crusader kit ? To me sounds decent enough

Sword G.55: €16.. for a 2-kit box ! Not bad, of course being short run kits they may need some more work than others but can't complain at €8 per each G.55

Sword (I know, I've bought quite a fee Sword kits) Lightning F.3: €20. Ok, the Airfix kit may be better in certain aspects but here we have a kit with resin and PE parts for a price that IMHO is quite good.

Special Hobby F-84F: €22.. ok, a bit more expensive than the RF-8 but there's really a lot of plastic in the box!

Eduard MiG-21 PFM profipack: €21., for a gr€\4eat kit with the added bonus of PE and masks. The weekend edition with plastic only sells for around1211 €14

Airfix P-40B: €12 delivered... I believe postage for this one was more than the kit

 

Stuff I've bought on special offer...

Eduard B-25: €31.. for a Hasegawa kit with 2 PE sheets, resin wheels, masks and a huge decal sheet.

Eduard F6F weekend: €6.70...  it's little more than a fiver for quite a good kit

Fine Molds F-2A: €20. For a modern Japanese kit with a level of detail that it's almost incredible

A&A 1/144 C-141A: €19, that for a largish kit is not bad, more so as this kind of short run kits tend to be expensive.

 

Now I've probably been lucky, sure Czech kits in Continental Europe may be cheaper than they are in the UK, maybe it's just because with Black Friday and Xmas offers there's been a surge of kits for sale over Europe but even considering everything I feel that it's still possible to buy good modern kits for affordable prices. To check if this is true in other parts of the world, I just checked Hannant's website and there are 10 pages of aircraft 1/72 kits for less than a tenner. Of course not all these are modern kits but many are while there are also kits from short run manufacturers and some exotic subjects. And Hannants prices are generally on higher side, other outlests may well be cheaper

[3DStewart]

I think part of the problem is we never compare like for like.  Modern kits are much more complex than 40 years ago and while technology improvements have negated tooling cost rises to a degree, they are still more expensive in real terms because of it.  More parts also mean a larger frame area, which tends to mean a bigger injection moulding machine, more plastic in each shot and so on.  Complexity always comes at a cost and modern kits are more complex, so expect them to cost more.  If you want cheaper, demand simpler, but we're not going to do that, are we?

 

There has also been a shift to larger kits.  1:16 armour, 1:32 planes multi-engine etc.  They have no interest for me, but evidently some modellers love them.  It's not surprising those are expensive. 

[Graham Boak]

I agree with what you say, except that I certainly want kits to become simpler than the more extreme examples nowadays.  Say the standards of the better kits 20 years or so ago.   Which is not to say that every kit of that age was as good as it could have been.

 

Alongside the shift to larger scales there is a shift to smaller scales, notably 1/144.  I see this as a move away from the greater complexity of some 1/72,  As a modelling scale it does need more options for different markings, however. 

[UberDaveToo]

I must admit, the Sword G.55 twofer is a sweet deal...

 

...I'm not a huge fan of Il Duce's air force, but those planes do offer a chance to practice some off the wall camo.

Edited January 30 by UberDaveToo

[Karearea]

I remember when kits were the kind of inexpensive present you’d give or receive for childhood birthdays, and the best were the ones you’d never have chosen yourself. 
 

My 7 year old has started intercepting my Aeroplane Monthly subscription as checking the mailbox is one of his responsibilities, and he decided a MiG-15 would be something he wanted to build.

 

I found a HobbyBoss easy build kit online for $15, and for my first experience with the brand it’s great. Carefully packaged, cleverly engineered, quite well detailed etc. I know they have a reputation for inaccuracy, but it made me think of this thread. It’s the kind of thing you could have pride building, but not particularly daunting, and inexpensive enough to give to one of his friends for their birthday.

I had already planned to pick up their 1/48 Me262, but I’ll give a few others a go sometime, I think I’ve come across a few lists of their better efforts. 

 

Edited January 30 by Karearea

[Admiral Puff]

8 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

I think part of the problem is we never compare like for like.  Modern kits are much more complex than 40 years ago and while technology improvements have negated tooling cost rises to a degree, they are still more expensive in real terms because of it.  More parts also mean a larger frame area, which tends to mean a bigger injection moulding machine, more plastic in each shot and so on.  Complexity always comes at a cost and modern kits are more complex, so expect them to cost more.  If you want cheaper, demand simpler, but we're not going to do that, are we?

To see confirmation of that, you only need to compare the latest Airfix 1:72 Lightning F.2A/F.6 with the old F.1 - chalk and cheese!

[3DStewart]

I think Airfix kits from the 70s (with one or two exceptions) were the sweet spot for the hobby.  Pocket money prices, but with an increase in accuracy, while still being easy to build.  Sure, they tended to do things like moulding undercarriage legs integral with the doors and cockpit detail was usually spartan, especially in Series 1, but it did make them buildable and they were generally accurate in outline and detail.

[Graham Boak]

For me, with a WW2 bias, the better Airfix ones of the '70s bear up well, but others don't.  By the '80s Heller were generally superior, and in the '90s Hasegawa took a significant step up.  For me, these were "as good as needs be".  A bit more attention to accuracy, maybe a little more detail, but fine tuning rather than major steps.  Alongside were the multiple ranges coming out from Eastern Europe, requiring more skill and sometimes cruder, but oh what a gorgeously wide range of subjects!   Since then there has been something of a rise in quality overall, but a considerable increase in complexity with familiar errors in shape and markings still being pursued, and a considerable reduction in variety of subject.  Not that I think the things are terrible nowadays, they are not, but I think the industry could "cut back" a little to the better aspects of the turn of the century.

 

We'd all like to see the best bits of everything and avoid the worse.

[Giorgio N]

13 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

I think part of the problem is we never compare like for like.  Modern kits are much more complex than 40 years ago and while technology improvements have negated tooling cost rises to a degree, they are still more expensive in real terms because of it.  More parts also mean a larger frame area, which tends to mean a bigger injection moulding machine, more plastic in each shot and so on.  Complexity always comes at a cost and modern kits are more complex, so expect them to cost more.  If you want cheaper, demand simpler, but we're not going to do that, are we?

 

There has also been a shift to larger kits.  1:16 armour, 1:32 planes multi-engine etc.  They have no interest for me, but evidently some modellers love them.  It's not surprising those are expensive. 

 

Yet some complex kits still manage to be cheap enough, case in point the abovementioned Eduard MiG-21 that comes with a lot of parts offering plenty of detail and in weekend edition guise retails for £13-14.

Simple kits have also not disappeared. Yes there are some companies like Arma that are probably bringing injected plastic kits to their limits (with the consequence of each of their kits being more expensive than the previous) but other still offer simpler stuff. All the AZ/KP "HQ" moulds are quite simple kits and generally sell for decent money.. although considering that Eduard often sells the same subject for less while offering more detail I sometime object to how good value for money their kits are...

 

 

12 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I agree with what you say, except that I certainly want kits to become simpler than the more extreme examples nowadays.  Say the standards of the better kits 20 years or so ago.   Which is not to say that every kit of that age was as good as it could have been.

 

Alongside the shift to larger scales there is a shift to smaller scales, notably 1/144.  I see this as a move away from the greater complexity of some 1/72,  As a modelling scale it does need more options for different markings, however. 

 

If for better kits from 20 years ago we mean things like Tamiya and many Hasegawa these sure offered a great combination of good mould quality, decent detail (tamiya more than hasegawa...) and fit. The "problem" with these kits is that they are still mostly very relevant today, meaning that the competition has not touched the same subjects yet at that level of simplicity. Academy also has several kits that IMHO fit well with the description of simple kits that still give good details. If only they had made their XIV right...

 

2 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

I think Airfix kits from the 70s (with one or two exceptions) were the sweet spot for the hobby.  Pocket money prices, but with an increase in accuracy, while still being easy to build.  Sure, they tended to do things like moulding undercarriage legs integral with the doors and cockpit detail was usually spartan, especially in Series 1, but it did make them buildable and they were generally accurate in outline and detail.

 

My personal sweet spot is probably with the Japanese kits I mentioned above. I know the Hasegawa 1/72 Spitfire IX is not accurate but I often find myself building one just because it's so easy and quick to build that it's my personal way of "relaxing" after a more complex project. Of course this is only a personal view. Academy kits of the era are maybe even better as they are more detailed while still being pretty simple and easy builds.

 

5 hours ago, Karearea said:

I remember when kits were the kind of inexpensive present you’d give or receive for childhood birthdays, and the best were the ones you’d never have chosen yourself. 
 

My 7 year old has started intercepting my Aeroplane Monthly subscription as checking the mailbox is one of his responsibilities, and he decided a MiG-15 would be something he wanted to build.

 

I found a HobbyBoss easy build kit online for $15, and for my first experience with the brand it’s great. Carefully packaged, cleverly engineered, quite well detailed etc. I know they have a reputation for inaccuracy, but it made me think of this thread. It’s the kind of thing you could have pride building, but not particularly daunting, and inexpensive enough to give to one of his friends for their birthday.

I had already planned to pick up their 1/48 Me262, but I’ll give a few others a go sometime, I think I’ve come across a few lists of their better efforts. 

 

 

The Hobbyboss easy-build kits are indeed great for an inexpensive build. Some of the 1/72 ones however don't fit particularly well, something that I see as not great for what is supposed to be an easy kit. Zvezda also has a line of similar kits that are IMHO even better but they are also more expensive. Haven't tried the Airfix easy build line yet, maybe I should but I find them a bit expensive for what they offer

[Enzo the Magnificent]

23 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

I know, I've bought quite a few Sword kits

 

 

Me too.  I like Sword kits. 

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    Well now i am in retirement, i am starting to realise that most of my models will eventually get thrown away after my demise 

    so as shipping costs as much or maybe more sometimes than the item

  ( except for purchases from poland )

   i am now considering some cheaper older less accurate kits , ( unless there is something special i want ) as a way to continue the hobby and do other stuff like holidays etc 

   cheers

    jerry

 

[stevej60]

Still some what I'd consider cheap kits out there definitely,I know e-bay is disliked by some but Creative,King Kit and many others have a precence with some good discounts

and the silly priced sellers are easily avoidable I've been a member over two years and still see what the sellers deem collectors items on their still the Airfix jaguar 1/32 for

£400 sticks in mind,I'm just finishing a Trumpeter 1/32 Mig 17 £22 including postage from Creative for example.

[George Norman]

Was in the LMS last Saturday with a 5 Modelling buddies, Lots of oohing an aahing and taking boxes and looking at the prices and putting them back shaking their heads.

 

one of us bought a kit. Fairey Rotodyne @ €25.00 despite warning him off the oncoming pain!  LOL!

 

as lads have said loads in the stash and maybe concentrate of those now rather then to over expensive new releases. 

 

I feel the Companies will up the prices to what the market will bear.  €80 to €100 for a 1/48 kit if daft TBH when the model is worthless when built unlike Model railways where you can flog the stuff off.