The Entropy Group Build Chat

[Bertie McBoatface]

2 minutes ago, PlaStix said:

Hi Bertie, Please add me to the list.

 

Wilco.

 

2 minutes ago, PlaStix said:

I've only ever done small amounts of rusting metal effects, so this could be an interesting challenge. I'm always in awe of those modellers that seem to replicate decay so well.

 

Yeah, chaos can be really difficult to replicate convincingly. It's human nature to impose order on the world. That said there's a lot of techniques to help us overcome this in weathering and decay is simply weathering taken to the extreme.

 

2 minutes ago, PlaStix said:

 

Possibly a great GB to learn some new weathering techniques.

Kind regards,

Stix

 

 

Definitely Stix, definiitely. 

 

🎼Twenty-one today! Twenty-one today! We've (nearly got the key of the door. Never been twenty-one before..... 🎹

[Bertie McBoatface]

Good morning, rot replicators!

 

Marketing and promoting this GB together with keeping on top of the correspondence generated by all of us is great fun and keeps me occupied for ages every day. It's like having that perfect part time job where everyone you meet is friendly. Better than that; where everyone is a friend. I'm working from home like a normal person. Well, as normal as I ever get anyway. 🤪

 

It must be said that I lack experience of this role, so if any of you notice that I'm getting something wrong or missing something out, would you mind telling me as soon as possible please? (I'll extend that request to @Enzo Matrix too, if you have the time, Enzo.) All suggestions are welcome.

 

I can handle this hosting job alone with no problem whatsoever, right now. However, when we get to the bunfight stage, and then next year when the building actually starts*, you would all receive a better service if I had a co-host. For example, I'd like everyone to get some daily acknowledgment and encouragement, as I've just experienced on the Strike/Attack GB from the wonderful @Col.. I can probably do most of that, but I might need a day off from time to time, and who can tell how many entrants there will be by next year?

 

Do I hear the running footsteps of a volunteer, or is that just the sound of a mass rush for the doors? Please send me a PM if you want more information.

 

Bertie.

 

*Note the lack of negative waves there, Moriarity! (That's the most important job requirement, I think.)

 

[Cerberus]

 Considering that I'm new to all this Group Build stuff, I feel the need to ask - how does this 'bunfight' thing work exactly? 

 

 Matt

[Marklo]

9 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

how does this 'bunfight' thing work exactly? 

The Bunfight is a poll of all eligible  GB and STGB proposals, which usually takes place in November, the top scoring proposals are then selected for the following years GBs and STGBs.  @Enzo Matrix then arranges them into the GB calendar .

 

To qualify for the Bunfight a proposal has to have  thirty members names.

STGB - single type group build.

I think that’s about it. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Marklo

[Andy Dyck]

11 hours ago, Andy Dyck said:

Built this one two years ago….. but now it’s time for new inspirations that you give me with this group build….

Thx 

Andy 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Andy Dyck

[Andy Dyck]

4 minutes ago, Andy Dyck said:

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

 Considering that I'm new to all this Group Build stuff, I feel the need to ask - how does this 'bunfight' thing work exactly? 

 

 Matt

 

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

The Bunfight is a poll of all eligible  GB and STGB proposals, which usually takes place in November, the top scoring proposals are then selected for the following years GBs and STGBs.  @Enzo Matrix then arranges them into the GB calendar .

 

To qualify for the Bunfight a proposal has to have  thirty members names.

STGB - single type group build.

I think that’s about it. 

 

 

 

Thanks Marklo.

 

Is there a general introduction to the GB rules and procedures anywhere? I've never been able to find a clear one and it took me months to work out roughly what it's all about. Some of the ideas that are already in the bunfight area for this year are holdovers from last year, some of them are unelected specials selected by someone on the moderation team, I think. @Enzo Matrix is the GB manager/coordinator. I think there are ten Group Builds (GB) this year, not counting the Single Type Group Builds (STGB) which are specific to one type, as you might expect.

 

Once we reach thirty supporters, the following series of milestones have to be passed:

 

First this thread will get moved from the GB Chat forum to Bunfight Forum. We will then really be pushing it into the public eye to persuade people to vote for it. The voting period runs for several weeks. Some ideas get abandoned when they don't get much support and then their supporters are encouraged to switch their votes to another Gb instead. Everyone gets several votes to allocate as they wish.

 

After the election happens, and if we have won a place, this thread will be moved into the Future Builds Forum, where it will typically go dormant for months until the start date rolls around. The dates for all of 2023's GBs will be worked out at the end of 2022 by @Enzo Matrix

 

About a week before the start date, this thread will be moved into the Current Group Build Forum, into a sub-forum of its own, The Entropy GB Forum, where each of us can post our own work in progress topics. That's the fun part where we all comment on each other's builds in a helpful and friendly way.

 

At the end of each build a few photos will be entered into a Gallery topic and at the end of the  three month building period all those builds that were completed are voted on by anyone that wants to, in order to decide which is 'the winner'. There aren't any prizes. Some GBs don't bother with that competitive process at all. Others have a competition gallery and a non-competitive gallery. We can decide about that later. Personally, I dislike judging a build as better or worse than another one. There are no consistent criteria, it's a completely subjective choice, so in my view, it's nonsense really. Why spend over a year encouraging each other and then suddenly start trying to beat each other to the winner's podium?

 

Personally I think this is a very long drawn out and complicated process. I've noticed that it's not that rare for people to just lose interest in the two or three year interval between the idea and the execution. Sometimes even the originators of the idea just stop answering posts for months at a time and it all falls apart. However, that's how the system has evolved and it was all reformed fairly recently so I don't suppose it will be changing again soon. Writing all this down has actually knocked even my enthusiasm a little bit when I consider what we have to go through. 😕

 

I'm going to find it difficult waiting until 2023 to play with the entropy theme. My enthusiasm will probably lead to me doing a few small scale experiments this year too.

 

At the moment, whenever I come across an RFI or a WIP that looks related to rust and wreckage, I'm posting a friendly invitation in the form of a link to page one of this thread. If anyone else would care to do the same, please do. That way we might recruit more members from those who currently don't join in the world of GBs.

 

Have I missed anything or misunderstood anything? Very probably. 🙆‍♂️

 

I'm going to go and have a lie down now. I have a headache...

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Andy Dyck said:

 

That's a very subtle example of the rusting relic genre. Well done Andy.

[Cerberus]

16 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I'm going to go and have a lie down now. I have a headache...

 You have a headache! I nearly lost the will to live... you're lucky I had a cup of tea handy 🤣

 

 Thx Marklo and Bertie 

[Marklo]

44 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Is there a general introduction to the GB rules and procedures anywhere

There is a FAQ in the forum but tbh I didn't find it that helpful. It took me weeks to figure out what STGB was even with help from other members. 

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/712-groupbuild-faqs/

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Marklo

[Bertie McBoatface]

10 minutes ago, Marklo said:

It took me weeks to figure out

 

Same, same. It's an initiation ceremony working out what's going on here. I lost several GBs last year when they jumped from one forum to the next without warning.

28 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

 You have a headache! I nearly lost the will to live... you're lucky I had a cup of tea handy 🤣

 

 Thx Marklo and Bertie 

 

You only had to read it - I had to pinging well write it! 🤯

[desert falcon]

Some very old photos of mine for inspiration.

 

 

Hard to believe maybe, but the Caravelle was fully restored and can now be seen at the Danish Museum of Science & Technology (Danmarks Tekniske Museum). 
 

The other one is, or rather was, a DC-7 if I remember correctly. 

 

[desert falcon]

Here is another one, this one is world famous in the United Arab Emirates. You used to be able to get access to it some years back but last I was there just before we left Dubai about 1 1/2 years ago it was clear one was supposed to keep out. 
 

„True“ story here (one of the many 😎) https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/heritage/revealed-the-moment-a-mysterious-russian-cargo-plane-landed-in-umm-al-quwain-1.1078586 

 

 

 

 

[IanC]

Would a model of an old, decaying model be appropriate? I'm thinking of the ultimate shelf queen, and probably something with wings. A mass of discoloured plastic with oozing, long hardened glue, faded Humbrol paint, yellowed transfers and a fogged canopy. Everything covered in a geologically significant layer of dust and dead spiders?

 

If so, I may already have something to offer. 

[Longbow]

Let’s not forget the Lady Be Good !!

 

 

 

[Stef N.]

All those that lived through the 70s and 80s could come up with some rusty ideas with one of these.

 

[Max Headroom]

I’m intruiged. I must have (!) an incomplete kit or leftovers that I can wilfully neglect.

 

 

Baldonnel early 80’s

 

Trevor

 

[Longbow]

2 hours ago, Stef N. said:

All those that lived through the 70s and 80s could come up with some rusty ideas with one of these.

 

 

"If this van's Rockin'... Don't come Knockin' !!"

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

16 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Personally I think this is a very long drawn out and complicated process. I've noticed that it's not that rare for people to just lose interest in the two or three year interval between the idea and the execution. Sometimes even the originators of the idea just stop answering posts for months at a time and it all falls apart. However, that's how the system has evolved and it was all reformed fairly recently so I don't suppose it will be changing again soon. Writing all this down has actually knocked even my enthusiasm a little bit when I consider what we have to go through. 😕

 

I'm going to go and have a lie down now. I have a headache...

 

 

 

I'm sorry guys, yesterday was 'one of those days'. I went to bed really late the night before, had a disturbed night and a pre-dawn getting up because the dog was ill, and that headache turned into a migraine. All these little niggles knocked me off the perch for a while but I'm back today with the usual bonhomie.😀

 

We actually have more than enough interested people to run a group build right now, if that was the way we do it here. If a tiny sub-forum was available we could start tomorrow and bother no-one else, but that's my youthful revolutionary nature speaking. Ha, actually at my age I'm scared that I'll die before we even begin! 😄 Britmodeller ain't my forum, and it's a marvellous place so the way it runs is probably best left as it is. It's like our British constitution, a long evolved constellation of understandings and conventions with all the important parts not even written down. If it's good enough for my country, it's good enough for me! 🇬🇧 By Jingo!

 

Confidential for @Enzo Matrix - with personal apologies for my moaning

 

 

13 hours ago, desert falcon said:

Some very old photos of mine for inspiration.

 

 

Hard to believe maybe, but the Caravelle was fully restored and can now be seen at the Danish Museum of Science & Technology (Danmarks Tekniske Museum). 
 

The other one is, or rather was, a DC-7 if I remember correctly. 

 

 

13 hours ago, desert falcon said:

Here is another one, this one is world famous in the United Arab Emirates. You used to be able to get access to it some years back but last I was there just before we left Dubai about 1 1/2 years ago it was clear one was supposed to keep out. 
 

„True“ story here (one of the many 😎) https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/heritage/revealed-the-moment-a-mysterious-russian-cargo-plane-landed-in-umm-al-quwain-1.1078586 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha. "World famous in the UAR". I haven't seen that quip before and will now use it to death. 

 

I love the big Russian advertising hoarding! 😀

 

13 hours ago, IanC said:

Would a model of an old, decaying model be appropriate? I'm thinking of the ultimate shelf queen, and probably something with wings. A mass of discoloured plastic with oozing, long hardened glue, faded Humbrol paint, yellowed transfers and a fogged canopy. Everything covered in a geologically significant layer of dust and dead spiders?

 

If so, I may already have something to offer. 

 

I know exactly what you mean Ian. 🤣 But seriously, I imagine a lot of dead projects could be given the entropy treatment with scant cost in time and treasure. Were you actually asking to be added to the list? I don't want to offend by presuming so.

 

12 hours ago, Longbow said:

Let’s not forget the Lady Be Good !!

 

 

 

 

Isn't that one they found in North Africa somewhere? Looking like a film set?

 

2 hours ago, Stef N. said:

All those that lived through the 70s and 80s could come up with some rusty ideas with one of these.

 

 

Too true. I could do either a Ford Anglia or Morris Oxford, both of which were scrapped for crumbling into dust. 😁

 

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

I’m intruiged. I must have (!) an incomplete kit or leftovers that I can wilfully neglect.

 

 

Baldonnel early 80’s

 

Trevor

 

 

You must, Trevor, you absolutely must. May I add your name to the register?

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

Just now, Longbow said:

 

"If this van's Rockin'... Don't come Knockin' !!"

 

 

"Don't laff, your dorter might be inside!" 😆

[Longbow]

8 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

 

Isn't that one they found in North Africa somewhere? Looking like a film set?

 

Yes sir, that is the one....

 

Lost on April 4th, 1943, and found in the Libyan desert November 9th, 1958.

The guns still functioned, and the coffee in the thermos flasks was still palatable. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

9 minutes ago, Longbow said:

 

Yes sir, that is the one....

 

Lost on April 4th, 1943, and found in the Libyan desert November 9th, 1958.

The guns still functioned, and the coffee in the thermos flasks was still palatable. 

 

And the crew? Still waiting?

[Paul J]

I've had an idea very similar to this that could count. Sign me up.

[Bertie McBoatface]

11 minutes ago, Paul J said:

I've had an idea very similar to this that could count. Sign me up.

 

 Brilliant. Welcome aboard! 

 

I'm dying to know what you have in mind, but there's no obligation to satisfy my curiosity - I also like a surprise. 😁

[Longbow]

33 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

And the crew? Still waiting?

Most of the crews remains were located in the desert. Robert Toner, the pilot, also left a diary of their attempted survival. 

If I remember correctly, they tried to walk North, but if they had gone East there was an SAS fuel dump which was manned, about 40 miles away... I could be totally wrong about that. 

 

Toner Transcript: 

 

SUNDAY, APR. 4, 1943 
Naples- 28 planes. Things pretty well mixed up- Got lost returning. out of gas, jumped. landed in desert at 2:00 in morning, no one badly hurt, can't find John, all others present. 

MONDAY 5 
Start walking N.W., still no John. a few rations, 1/2 canteen of water, 1 cap full per day. Sun fairly warm. good breeze from N.W. Nite very cold, no sleep. Rested & walked. 

TUESDAY 6 
Rested at 11:30, sun very warm, no breeze, spent P.M. in hell, no planes, etc. rested until 5:00 P.M. walked & rested all nite, 15 min. on, 5 off. 

WEDNESDAY, APR. 7,1943
Same routine, every one getting weak, can't get very far, prayers all the time, again P.M. very warm, hell. Can't sleep. Every one sore from ground. 

THURSDAY 8 
Hit Sand Dunes, very miserable, good wind but continuous blowing of sand, everybody now very weak, thought Sam & Moore were all gone. LaMotte eyes are gone, everyone else's eyes are bad. Still going N.W.

FRIDAY 9 
Shelley, Rip, Moore separate and try to go for help, rest of us all very weak, eyes bad. Not any travel, all want to die, still very little water. nites are about 35, good N. wind, no shelter, 1 parachute left. 

SATURDAY, APR. 10, 1943 
Still having prayer meetings for help. No signs of anything, a couple of birds; good wind from N. Really weak now, can't walk, pains all over, still all want to die. Nites very cold, no sleep.

SUNDAY 11 
Still waiting for help, still praying, eyes bad, lost all our wgt. aching all over, could make it if we had water; just enough left to put our tongue to, have hope for help very soon, no rest, still same place.

MONDAY 12 
No help yet, very (unreadable) cold nite.

 

 

 

 

Ripslinger Transcript:

 

SUNDAY
Mission to Naples, Italy. T.O. 3:10 and dropped (sic) bombs at 10:00. Lost coming back. Bailed out at 2:10 A.M. on dessert (sic). 

MONDAY
All but Woravka met this A.M. Waited awhile and started walking. Had 1/2 sandwhich (sic) & piece of candy & cap of water in last 36 hr. 

TUESDAY
Started out early walking & resting. It's now sundown and still going. One teaspoon of water today. The rest of the boys are doing fine. 

WEDNESDAY
Started early A. M. and walked til about near spent. Terrible hot afternoon. Started again at 6 P.M. and walked all night. One spoon full of water is all. 

THURSDAY
Tired all out. We can hardly walk. Our 4th day out. A few drops of water each. Can't hold out much longer without aid. Pray. 

FRIDAY
5th day out & we all thought we're gone. All wanted to die during noon it was so hot. Morn & nite okay. 2 drops of water! 

SATURDAY
Walked all day and night. Suggested Guy, Moore and I make out alone.

SUNDAY
Palm Sun. Still struggling to get out of dunes and find water.