F387 Avro Lincoln B.2/B.30 What Frog would have released in about 1985 had they continued ...

[Rob S]

That's OK no need to say sorry.  I've always said to people "You can call me anything so long as you don't call me Late for Dinner!".  

 

Small update tonight in between watching a stream of the crazy German Grand Prix - must have been real crazy with a rich Kid like Stroll leading with a handful of laps remaining!  

 

Started to fill the Wing Tips after "sealing" the top of the added on Plasticard with a semi circular bit of 30 thou Plasticard.  Decided to add only a thin layer a day so that it doesn't (or hopefully shouldn't) melt the tip and can set fairly strongly to be sanded to shape.  Maybe should have used an Epoxy Putty or Milliput but the Tamiya Filler was to hand so used it.  

 

Then started to fill in the gap from the Shackleton Wing Root to the Lancaster Fuselage with strips of 40 thou Plasticard while keeping the Spar slots area clear.  Turns out the Rectangular Tube I didn't buy the other day would have been perfect to bulk it out as the Square Tube I bought is the right width but too too deep.  Ah well might leave that bit till I go for a drive on Tuesday and get the Rectangular Tube.  

 

Might start looking at the Nacelles next just to assess what I am in for.  

 

Update too on the House move.  Turns out we have a month to complete the move and "zero" the current place back to the way it was.  So not too bad now just waiting to know the start date.  

 

[Rob S]

On 7/27/2019 at 1:20 AM, PeterB said:

According to my sources the Shack MR3 had a span of 119Ft including tip tanks, whilst the Lincoln was 120ft so I have positioned it about right. Don't know it that matches the plans you have.

 

So 120 feet multiplied by 12 inches multiplied by 25.4 divided by 72 equals 508 mm.  

 

On 7/27/2019 at 2:18 AM, Rob S said:

I can basically check what I've done by wacking on a dummy/trial set of tips in the morning and running a tape over it and see what I get when I multiply it by 72 and divide by 25.4 and then 12.  Will be interesting - stay tuned!  

 

And with the wings in place and the tape run over the tips the Answer is ... Drum Roll please ... :  

 

509 mm.  

 

So a wee bit bit of sanding should bring it into line.  

 

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Well you are certainly cracking on with this! I suppose the house move news is good, but it no doubt puts more pressure on you to finish this mammoth build, and given my experience with the ruddy Shackleton I wish you the best of luck. At this rate I will still be working on it when you have finished! I am really looking forward to seeing this rare beast.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Just for the record, I mentioned that the Lincoln had bigger wheels that normal Lancasters. I have dug out a Freightdog Models set of resin wheels labelled "Lancaster 'Lincoln' style treaded main wheels"which are to use on late model Lancs and of course Lincolns. In addition to having a tread pattern, the wheel hubs are about 1mm greater in diameter and a slightly different design, whilst the tyres are 1mm thicker and 2mm greater in diameter at 2.3cm. I bought these for my proposed Lincoln conversion several years ago. Of course for your relatively simple build Lanc wheels will be fine.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[David Womby]

Just dropped in on this GB as I am away from home and can't participate.  Ray, this is great stuff.

 

David

[Rob S]

On 7/29/2019 at 7:44 AM, Rob S said:

 

So 120 feet multiplied by 12 inches multiplied by 25.4 divided by 72 equals 508 mm.  

 

 

And with the wings in place and the tape run over the tips the Answer is ... Drum Roll please ... :  

 

509 mm.  

 

So a wee bit bit of sanding should bring it into line.  

 

 

I found where the extra mm was.  It's gone now.  

 

No photos uploaded yet but have : 

 

strengthened the Fuselage in preparation for the stretch; 

 

continued to shape and fill and sand an fill the wing tips; 

 

went to the LHS 90 kms away and bought the right size rectangular tube and strip so have built up the wing root gap ahead of filling and sanding it to shape; 

 

have plasticarded and epoxied the mid upper turret fairing ahead of filing it off before the stretch; 

 

and have looked at the Nacelles and Nose ahead of deciding what to do in those areas as thinking of not following either of the Airfix Magazine or Scale Aircraft Modelling.  

 

Photos to follow when I upload them.  

 

 

 

EDIT :

P.S.  Oh and I actually glued on a kit part - the starboard side rear entry door - which I think is the first time I have actually referred too the Kit Instructions instead of the two Conversion Articles!  

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Rob S

[Max Headroom]

“went to the LHS 90kms away” As if it’s popping out to the shops to get some milk for a cuppa!*

 

Your dedication to this project is very much appreciated. 🤗

 

Trevor

 

* that’s about a 110 mile round trip.....

[Rob S]

Photo Update : 

 

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

strengthened the Fuselage in preparation for the stretch; 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

continued to shape and fill and sand an fill the wing tips; 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

went to the LHS 90 kms away and bought the right size rectangular tube and strip so have built up the wing root gap ahead of filling and sanding it to shape; 

 

 

 

Someone didn't want to drive or instruct so had a snooze along the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

have plasticarded and epoxied the mid upper turret fairing ahead of filing it off before the stretch; 

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

and have looked at the Nacelles and Nose ahead of deciding what to do in those areas as thinking of not following either of the Airfix Magazine or Scale Aircraft Modelling.  

 

Still deciding what to do!  

 

[Rob S]

OK so marching on : 

 

Started to fill those pesky Wing Root gaps : 

 

 

 

They are going to take a number of fill, sand, fill, sand, etc cycles.  

 

With regards to the Nacelles again I'm probably not going to follow either Conversion Article but take a bit from both and see what I can come up with.  

 

In the mean time took the plunge and made that critical cut : 

 

 

 

Hopefully with the 40 thou card profile as an insert and the Carbon Fibre Square and Round Rods as "backbone" it will be strong enough.  Nor exactly a homage to 1977 though as I think it wasn't until 1988 that I bought my first Carbon Fibre.  Lots of "planking" and filling to follow!  

 

[Rabbit Leader]

And I thought my wee little Whittle was a dragged on episode of cutting, filling and filing? This Lincoln is a huge effort and we all need to rally around poor old Rob to ensure he retains his energy (or is that sanity) and gets this one home. Good thing we Aussie are kinda handy with sandpaper, hey mate? 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

This Lincoln is a huge effort and we all need to rally around poor old Rob to ensure he retains his energy (or is that sanity) and gets this one home.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha!  Like Baldrick I have a cunning Plan!  Realising I've actually only glued one piece (way less than 25 percent complete!) if I don't get it over the line in this GB I suddenly realised that the Lincoln was retired from the RAF in 1963 ... "In the Year I was Born"!  

 

1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Good thing we Aussie are kinda handy with sandpaper, hey mate?

 

I have no idea what you are talking about ... (now just where is that nonchalant whistling emoji?)  

 

[Rabbit Leader]

2 minutes ago, Rob S said:

... I have a cunning Plan!

mmm... You might have to sweet talk the GB host first on that one! 

[Rob S]

[Rob S]

6 hours ago, Rob S said:

 

 

 

Just thought I should mention too if using this method to stretch (or shrink) for Fuselages that change cross section like this (as opposed to Airliners that generally have a long constant cross sectional area) the tubes are laid in parallel to the centre line and are shimmed out from the Fuselage as necessary (whereas with a constant cross section they can be laid on the Fuselage itself).  

 

 

[Aardvark]

3 hours ago, Rob S said:

Just thought I should mention too if using this method to stretch (or shrink) for Fuselages that change cross section like this (as opposed to Airliners that generally have a long constant cross sectional area) the tubes are laid in parallel to the centre line and are shimmed out from the Fuselage as necessary (whereas with a constant cross section they can be laid on the Fuselage itself).  

For Fuselages that change cross section best use diagonal cut. 

The diagonal section allows to achieve a smooth transition and less use of putty.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Rabbit Leader]

19 hours ago, Aardvark said:

For Fuselages that change cross section best use diagonal cut. 

I didn't know that, that actually sounds like a good idea if the subject allows it. I'll have to keep that it mind the next time I take saw to Frog kit! 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Rob S]

Just a quick note to say there won't be any progress on this for a few days at least as I am 200 kms from Home after the Mother-in-Law had a fall and was flown out to the Hospital in the "big smoke".  Unfortunately I didn't get a ride in "da Chopper!" and had to drive out.  

 

In the mean time I think there were a couple of other photos to upload if my phone and this useless Internet here allow me to upload.  

 

Might be a suitable opportunity too at some stage to relate my Lincoln connection story and hopefully Graeme @Graeme H might jump on line and relate his great story of his ride in a real Lincoln!  

 

[Rob S]

A couple more photos : 

 

Wings plugged into stretched Fuselage just to see how big the thing is (See Comment below) : 

 

 

Port side of the stretch "planked" : 

 

 

Starboard side of the stretch "planked" : 

 

 

I did do some filling after this and probably just as well that it will sit for a while as even though I didn't fill the whole stretch there was a lot of filler there and hopefully it won't melt anything (touch wood).  I should have used Milliput but I couldn't find where I had put it after the last "tidy up".  No doubt it will turn up after I've used this Tamiya Filler (which does shrink a fair amount unfortunately) to fill it in.  

 

Now the comment I was going to make was about remembering a story related in the Ian Allen book of the Lincoln in the "at War" Series where a Townsville based Lincoln flew to Manus Island I think it was because someone remembered there were roofing tiles there and they wanted some free roofing tiles to do a job at the Base.  So after loading up with rooding tiles they were on their way back flying low and happened upon a US Destroyer which in those days tensions were high with the "Confrontation" going on and the US Destroyer obviously thought they may have been an "enemy" aircraft so they produced smoke and trained every anti aircraft gun on board the Destroyer at the incoming low level Lincoln.  Which must have been an amazing sight of such a big aircraft a such low level.  Anyway from  memory apparently the story went that they didn't get fired upon even though they must have looked very menacing and threatening and the Destroyer made radio contact saying something to the effect of "You were lucky we did not fire upon you!" to which the Lincoln replied "You were lucky not to have been bombed by (whatever number it was} Pounds of Roofing Tiles!" to which the Yanks asked "Roofing Tiles?" and the Lincoln didn't reply leaving them to contemplate what sort of secret weapon "Roofing Tiles" were!  I miss my copy of that Book as it's "down south" so I ordered another reasonably priced copy to have up here so that I can refer to it as necessary for this build.  

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Rob S

[Rob S]

OK while I am watching Australia getting demolished in the Ashes (Who on Earth wins the Toss and Bats in the UK when it's over cast?) I thought I might relate "my" Lincoln connection story and hopefully Graeme @Graeme H will regale us with his Lincoln story too.  

 

Anyway the Year is 1987 and I'm in my final year of my Degree at a certain Tertiary Institution in Brisbane and having been there from the previous year (after doing the first two years "up north") I knew there were some interesting Engines in the Thermodynamics Lab including a sectioned Rolls Royce Merlin and a complete but sealed off D H Goblin out of a two seat Vampire as that's what it said on it's Information Plaque.  Anyway I didn't pay much attention to the Merlin and it didn't have any Information Plaque on it to explain where it was from and nobody in the Lab knew anything about it and there actually were some ex RAF and RAAF Technicians in the Lab Staff.  So anyway into Final Year and one of the things you have to do is select certain "Elective" Subjects you would like to study and when there are only two or three on offer (if that as sometimes there was no choice!) you have to be quick to get into the one you want otherwise you miss out and have to do one of the other ones that you may not be interested in.  Anyway to cut a long story short I managed to get into the "AGMA Gear Design" Elective and one of the things we had to do a a major Project for Assessment was design a Reduction Gearbox for a replica Aircraft that a relatively well known local designer had designed and constructed only to make a "bad" choice of what he thought at the time was a reduction gearbox but turned out to be a toothed belt reduction which was deemed not to be airworthy so he was in search of a replacement "real" gearbox.  So as I was doing additional Subjects at the time I missed out on a trip to the Oakey Air Base (where the replica was housed) to measure the existing "Gearbox" and allowable dimensions but I was present when the Class decided to have a look at the Merlin for Design characteristics of Aviation gears.  Anyway again to cut a ling story short no one knew anything about the Merlin - type, configuration, power, etc so I looked all over the thing for any source of Identification and all I could find was "66" and deduced that it was a Merlin 66 and then trying to work out how a Merlin 66 was anywhere around Brisbane discovered that at a certain point in time the Australian Lincolns were fitted with two Merlin 66 engines in the outboard positions and of course Lincoln's were based out at Amberley so obviously that's where it came from probably when the Merlin 85s and 66s were replaced by 102s.  

 

Anyway as it turned out later in the year when there was a bit of a regime change at the highest level in the Faculty and a "I Boss and I do anything I want" type of character came into power he deemed that "relics" such as the Merlin and the Goblin were "useless" and of no teaching / learning value they had to go to make room for the latest Widget that he was spending the Faculty Budget on!  Now one of the Senior Lecturers knew that I knew a bit about the Merlin and the Goblin so when he was tasked by "The Boss" to get rid of the "relics" he asked me that if I wanted them they were mine for a Dollar each so long as I took them away!  Now of course I said "Yes" but as a lowly Student far from home and not knowing too many places I could put them and with the pressure on the Senior Lecturer to "get them out of here!" I eventually had to say "Sorry I would love to but can't unfortunately!".  So I suggested that they contact the Queensland Air Museum and see if they could take them.  And of course they did and that is where they are today!  

 

So that's my connection to the Lincoln!  

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Rob S

[Max Headroom]

......and you have earned your place in aviation Valhalla 

 

Trevor

[Graeme H]

On 02/08/2019 at 02:07, Rob S said:

OK while I am watching Australia getting demolished in the Ashes (Who on Earth wins the Toss and Bats in the UK when it's over cast?) I thought I might relate "my" Lincoln connection story and hopefully Graeme @Graeme H will regale us with his Lincoln story too.  

OK, Rob S has been pressuring me for years to give up the story of my ATC days, and my one and only Lincoln ride

It was 1961, that famous year which could be read the same way, correct way up, or upside down, you all knew that right?

Here is a [picture of a fresh faced me on parade, Rob should be able to easily pick me out 😜

So this was an annual camp, where we lived on the RAAF Base, fortunately for me it was my home town, and Dad was in the RAAF, but away at the time on an Exercise, so Mum took the photos.

 

Now as then ATC Cadets got to ride on the RAAF Aircraft while they were at Camp, and this was the first of a few for me, had to get Mum to sign a release even back in those days for me to go, and it turned out only 6 of us got one

We did a bit over an hour out over the Coral Sea mostly, got to go to all the positions, although for me the best was the observers seat in the extended nose which is what those picture windows in that long nose extension were all about,

as the Lincoln like the Shackleton couldn't be fitted with a MAD boom, so mostly relied on 2 observers, sitting out in front of the engines a fabulous seat with a lambs wool seat cover, which I considered to be the best seat in the house,

only stayed a few minutes in the rear turret, sliding over the main spar was fun going backwards, but you needed help coming forward

So other big thing was the fact my Dad worked on them, that is my main connection to the Lincoln.

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Both very nice stories @Rob S and @Graeme H, it just all makes sense that we want to model these subjects that are etched into our lives since earlier times. Now my cousin volunteers at the Queensland Air Museum three days a week, so the next time I go there I'll ask to see these engine bits from Rob's youth, I wonder what they'll say if I offer them a dollar for them today?

Cheers.. Dave   

[JOCKNEY]

On 28/07/2019 at 03:19, Rob S said:

 

Following the successful : 

 

"They call me Greg" 

 

and 

 

"They call me Ray" 

 

Ranges of Designer T-Shirts (see Frog Squad GB Chat) and after the disappointment of not being able to register "They call me Bruce" as my third Range of Designer T-Shirts owing to impending Legal action over Royalties I can now celebrate the launch of the third Range of Designer T-Shirts the : 

 

"They call me Roy" Range.  

 

Can I order one of the hats with the corks please 😉

Cheers Pat

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:19 PM, Rob S said:

Photo Update : 

 

 

 

 

Are you sure there is enough bracing there Rob? I think I see room for a little more

 

[Max Headroom]

3 hours ago, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

Are you sure there is enough bracing there Rob? I think I see room for a little more

 

That’s ballast to ensure it’s a tail sitter.

 

Trevor