F387 Avro Lincoln B.2/B.30 What Frog would have released in about 1985 had they continued ...

[Rob S]

Back Home now and look what arrived while we were away : 

 

 

Must have a quick flick through and note any useful reference photos.  

 

Might get the Warpaint book next.  

 

[Rob S]

On 8/5/2019 at 5:29 AM, JOCKNEY said:

Can I order one of the hats with the corks please 😉

Cheers Pat

Hats?  Didn't you know Rabbits are in short supply since the Calicivirus.  

 

Once we corner the Designer T-Shirt market enough Rabbits might have repopulated by then that we can look at Hats.  

 

[Rob S]

On 8/5/2019 at 12:23 PM, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

Are you sure there is enough bracing there Rob? I think I see room for a little more

 

 

Yeah I thought I could fit another one in there too as it's a very flimsy Fuselage and the Lincoln is pretty long.  

 

[Rob S]

21 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

That’s ballast to ensure it’s a tail sitter.

 

Trevor

 

Mmmm thinks opposite of Tail Sitter.  How about a Tricycle Undercarriage VLN (Very Long Nose) Lincoln MR.33 Whif ... 

 

[Rob S]

Only just picked this up again to do some filling and sanding after being struck down by the Flu over the last week.  Either must be a pretty strong strain this year or I'm getting old as it is pretty hard to shake and I eventually had to admit I wasn't winning the battle and had to venture up to the Hospital to get some help to fight it.  Hopefully getting on top of it now so some recovery modelling may be in order.  Given the number of people the Flu has claimed so far this year if you get it and have the slightest suspicion that you need help fighting it and need to see a Doctor or go to the Hospital my advice is definitely go and the sooner the better otherwise you might be giving someone one hell of a job to get rid of that Stash and Reference Library in your absence!  

 

[Rob S]

Slow progress on this trying to recover and also work out which way to do things.  

 

I think I am up to about the sixth or seventh fill, sand, prime, etc round on the Fuselage extension and about the fourth round on the Wings.  They'll eventually get there although I'm surprised and a little disturbed how resilient the Shackleton Rivets are to the numerous sandings.  

 

After a bit of thought I have decided to use the Lancaster Nacelles instead of modifying the Shackleton Nacelles as in the Airfix Magazine article.  Reason being is I simply didn't want to go down the path outlined in the article.  Using the Lancaster Nacelles has required reshaping the upper surface of the Nacelle to the Shackleton wing and advancing it a bit up the wing to it's centreline and also cutting out the mating surface to match the hole in the Shackleton wing.  I haven't cut the Merlin engines of the Nacelle yet as I'm waiting until the last minute to determine exactly where I should cut as it will depend on where I cut the Shackleton Cowlings off once I have finished modifying them (see below).  The other thin I have had to do is fish out the Lancaster Upper Wings and chop off the bit that forms the top of the Nacelle to Engine owing to the design of the kit.  

 

Now the Shackleton Cowlings.  Man do not let anyone tell you they are close to representing the Lincoln Cowlings.  For this I am basically following the Airfix Magazine article but as written above the difference is I will have to cut them to fit onto the Lancaster Nacelles.  First of all thanks Mr Frog Toolmaker for making the Cowlings and Nacelles so complicated.  I'm almost tempted to dig out my copy of the couple of years ago new tool Revell Shackleton to have a look at how they have done the Engines and Nacelles.  Would have to be simpler than what Frog did.  Anyway first of all I "flattened" the flared part of the Cowl rather than removing it and then removed the 1.5 mm from the top of each Cowl and filed the locating tab a similar amount so that the Cowls can be rotated on the annular front piece so that the Exhaust (which have to be reshaped and added to - which reminds me does anyone know how come 7 exhausts?) lines are higher up on the Cowl.  Then I filled the Prop shaft holes on the annular front piece and cut out some circles from 30 thou card to the size of the Spinners and glued them up higher on the Spinner flat in preparation for filling the top and filing the bottom.  After that filling and filing the Cowls and annular fronts piece can be glued to the Shackleton Nacelles and the exact cut line determined once the Cowls are filled and sanded of course.  

 

For the outer Nacelles the basis of those are the Lancaster Nacelles although not too much will be usable as the Python installation will take out a fair amount of it.  As for the Pythons themselves well the Wyvern kits are really only any good for the contra rotating props and Spinners mainly owing to the Lincoln installation that I want to portray has the "cut back" Python intake meaning I am sizing up tube and circular cut outs to try and scratchbuild the majority of it.  

 

 

 

We'll see how I get along doing this in the next few days.  

 

Photos to follow as I get the chance.  

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Rob S

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

So it was not just my rivets that were resistant to sanding - the plastic is very hard!

 

Pete

[Rob S]

Hello Pete : 

 

Yes I'm starting to think it's Borg Plastic and not Eastern Bloc Plastic as I'm getting the feeling that resistance to Rivets is futile.  

 

Might have to remodulate the Wet n Dry and go for a coarser grade although with my luck it'll probably take too much off and also I'm not looking forward to rescribing.  

 

[Jinxman]

6 hours ago, Rob S said:

Yes I'm starting to think it's Borg Plastic and not Eastern Bloc Plastic as I'm getting the feeling that resistance to Rivets is futile.  

 

Might have to remodulate the Wet n Dry and go for a coarser grade although with my luck it'll probably take too much off and also I'm not looking forward to rescribing.  

 

I know how you feel - I usually reach for the 6" file when it gets to that stage...😉

[Rabbit Leader]

Sorry to hear you’ve had a dose of this years flu Rob, it’s certainly not something that will just give you a few days off to catch up on a bit of modelling. It’s getting nastier and quite scary with every winter that passes. 

 

Good to hear you’re back onto this Shacklington project although it’s also sounding like you need to go to the garden shed to get some more tools out! 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Rob S]

Just a couple of update snaps as I plod along ... 

 

Cutting, filing, and filling of engine parts prior to slapping them together : 

 

 

 

In the background you can see the nth iteration of filling and sanding and priming etc on the Fuselage extension.  

 

Then after slapping them together bog them up to the hilt prior to starting the sand, prime, sand, fill merry go round on them : 

 

  

 

As I might have mentioned I might just dig out that Revell release of a few years ago and see what it's Engines are like (not to mention it's Wings as well in case I get any stupid ideas of doing another one of these).  

 

And then bringing up the rear a little experimentation on what four bladed Props might look like : 

 

  

 

Those working towards their Observation Badges might have an idea of what all the Tube lying around the place is for.  If you do please let me know as I thought I knew what they were for but now like Murray Walker I'm not so sure!  

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Rob S

[mike romeo]

I very much admire the job you're doing here.  Can't wait to see the finished article

 

 

I've pondered for a long time on how to do a Lincoln.  I fancy a whif Tiger Force aircraft . . .

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

[stevej60]

some great engineering going on here.like Mike can't wait to see the finished article!

[Ventora3300]

16 hours ago, Rob S said:

 

 

Those working towards their Observation Badges might have an idea of what all the Tube lying around the place is for.  If you do please let me know as I thought I knew what they were for but now like Murray Walker I'm not so sure!  

 

Rob, great build going on here. Are the tubes for extending the back of the spinners or even for building very free spinning props (on shafts)? All the best. Mike

[Rob S]

3 hours ago, mike romeo said:

I very much admire the job you're doing here.  Can't wait to see the finished article

 

 

I've pondered for a long time on how to do a Lincoln.  I fancy a whif Tiger Force aircraft . . .

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

 

Thanks for the kind words Martin.  

 

Finished article probably won't make this GB owing to losing the last two weeks but there is always one of the other GBs or KUTA or just finish it as a WIP.  

 

By all means if you want a Lincoln go for it as I figure the more that build one the more chance that Modelling Law comes into play where a major Manufacturer will bring one out!  

 

[Rob S]

3 hours ago, stevej60 said:

some great engineering going on here.like Mike can't wait to see the finished article!

 

Thanks Steve.  Yes it's pretty obvious isn't it that I'm an Engineer and not an Artist!  

 

Actually I was just thinking the other day after looking at the wingspan of this how much the RAF Bombing force might have advanced had they not been limited by the 100 foot wingspan specification early in the piece.  I reckon we would have seen a British high altitude pressurised turbo prop Bomber not too long after the end of the war (now there is a WHIF - a British version of the Bear?) if they had been given some design freedom (and of course not been "limited" by the war to mass production of existing types!).  

 

[Rob S]

2 hours ago, Ventora3300 said:

Rob, great build going on here. Are the tubes for extending the back of the spinners or even for building very free spinning props (on shafts)? All the best. Mike

 

Thanks Mike.  

 

Well the Tubes ... 

 

OK they are for my attempt at fabricating the Pythons using the contra rotating props from the Wyvern kits.  

 

So far they look like this : 

 

 

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

Don't know how successful this will be as I'm going to have to use Tamiya Filler on this to bog it out as I still can't find the Milliput.  

 

I figure though if it is successful I might mould them as can always do another Python Lincoln and of course there was the Python Lancaster (two types of cowl length) that can be done as well.  Also if I ever did a turbo prop WHIF a four Python powered beast would  look pretty fearsome!  And of course if I did mould them then anyone else who wants to have a Python Lancaster, Lincoln, or WHIF can have one as well without the work of fabricating Pythons!  

 

I should work out how to mould Props successfully too so I'm not robbing Wyvern kits all over the place!  

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Rob, do you stay up all night thinking of these impossible modelling projects? I do say, that Python is quite an engineering marvel but perhaps you should put all this energy into 3D printing, imagine what weird concoctions you could design and develop then?

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

That is going to need some seriously arm aching sanding I suspect!

 

Pete

[Rob S]

5 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Rob, do you stay up all night thinking of these impossible modelling projects?

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head there.  Especially when the Ashes are on!  

 

5 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

I do say, that Python is quite an engineering marvel but perhaps you should put all this energy into 3D printing, imagine what weird concoctions you could design and develop then?

Yes good point.  I must admit I nearly did a few years ago when Aldi had a particularly good model of Printer on sale however that was generally sold out within about 5 seconds of opening mainly being bought by Parents organised by Private School P&C's so that their Kids had 3D Printers to play with.  

 

The only other thing is that over the years I have been particularly lazy or reluctant to learn things like CAD and related Software for Hobby use that comes with things like 3D Printers which is weird because in Professional areas I'm generally one of the first cabs off the Rank learning new and different Systems etc.  

 

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

Hi Rob,

 

That is going to need some seriously arm aching sanding I suspect!

 

Pete

Yes there is an Ad over here where a Kid says to his Dad when he gets a new 4WD "I think we're gonna need a bigger Boat!" when looking at the little Dinghy next to the new 4WD so to paraphrase that "I think I'm gonna need a bigger sanding Stick!".  

 

Certainly the 200 mm Flat sweetheart File is going to get a work out!  

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Rob S

[mike romeo]

Wow! Love the scratchbuilt Python nacelle!

[Rob S]

Thanks Mike.  long way to go yet though before I know if it works or not.  

 

There are some good photos of RF403 on this Site : 

 

https://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/lincoln/avrolincolnsraf.html  

 

of which this one is particularly useful : 

 

 

not just for the Python but also for the split line in the flap owing to the Python exhaust.  I'd hazard a guess that it is similar to if not identical to the split line on the Shackletons with the outboard Adders or historically they did it for this first and then used it on the Shackleton later (otherwise known as "Experience"?).  So if anyone has details of the size of the gap or the dimensions of the Flaps I'd be very grateful to shamelessly copy them!  

 

I'm leaning towards that White scheme too as it's got that "Nuclear Bomber" feel about it.  

 

Reading too that they were scrapped at Tocumwal makes me wonder what happened to the Pythons?  Sent back to the UK?  Scrapped?  Ended up sectioned in a Tertiary Institution until sold for $1 to a Museum?  Anyone know?  

 

Just on the WHIF side of things too if there was a four Python engined Lincoln how far forward would the Pythons have to be mounted on the inner Nacelles (with the bifuricated Exhausts like on the Wyvern) to clear the Undercarriage Bay?  Does anyone know if there is a cutaway drawing of a Wyvern anywhere to see where the Engine ends and how the Exhausts are configured?  

 

So far I can only find this one : 

 

which is a bit small and doesn't blow up very well.  

 

This one isn't too bad but is it accurate?  

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Rob S

[Jinxman]

Don't know if this is any better?

 

https://www.flightglobalimages.com/cutaways/aeroengines-piston-cutaways/armstrong-siddeley-python-cutaway-drawing-4553080.html

 

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Now I might have missed it Ray, however is that white python engined Lincoln the subject of this build?? If so, I reckon your’e madder than what I first thought! (.. all in jest of course). 

 

Cheers.. Dave