F387 Avro Lincoln B.2/B.30 What Frog would have released in about 1985 had they continued ...

[Rob S]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:59 AM, mike romeo said:

Wow!  This is looking great!

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

Thanks Martin.  Still a long long way to go yet!  

 

[Rob S]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:01 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

Top marks there Rob, those engines and fuse parts look delightful, which is good reward for all those hours you’ve put into this project. My sons a huge F1 fan, any chance of a KMag autograph? 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

Thanks Skipper.  I'll ask "DMag" to autograph a photo and send it over and lets see if your Son can tell the difference?  

 

[Rob S]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:50 PM, PeterB said:

Hi Rob,

 

Any thought on what you will be doing with the nose?

 

Pete

 

Hello Pete : I must put up a photo of your generous contribution to this build it has certainly motivated me to try and get it finished.  

 

I think with the Nose on this one given the way I've gone about it, the time constraints, and in keeping with the time period I might do some old style 70's moulding of the Nose for this one and use the complete set for the next one probably based on the intended kit of the the 1979 Airfix Lancaster (when is that Lanc Group Build again?).  Which will probably mean if I have a go at a third (maybe that one with the Radome Nose and Viewing Windows) it will probably be based on the Matchbox kit just for something different.  

 

[Rob S]

On 8/31/2019 at 4:14 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Rob, I just did a huge catch up and am rather impressed. Glad you got over the lurgy, and good luck with the move.

Pete

 

Thanks Pete.  Hopefully might get a little bit more done this week than I think I will but when I look back would love to have started earlier, not got the Flu, and not had to go away meaning I would have had a lot more time on this.  Ah well these things happen.  

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Just think, if you'd built a 1/48th Lincoln, you'd have to get an even bigger new house!

[Rob S]

14 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Just think, if you'd built a 1/48th Lincoln, you'd have to get an even bigger new house!

 

If I built a 1:48 Lincoln I'm pretty sure I'd be going to a House with padded walls ... or at least my Wife would send me to one!  

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Rob S

[Rob S]

Has the Group Build been extended to October 6?  

 

[Rabbit Leader]

1 hour ago, Rob S said:

Has the Group Build been extended to October 6?  

Yes, just for you Rob!! 

[Rob S]

OK after battling for a couple of hours trying to get the iPhone to communicate with the laptop I finally managed to download it's photos but really only one relevant to this build.  

 

Before I went away a package arrived from @PeterB with the following in it : 

 

 

 

Many thanks to Pete and hopefully tomorrow I'll get to the Post Office to post off a bit of a surprise for Pete.  

 

Now as written above given the path I have gone down with this one I'll probably use this set on the 1979 Airfix release as that is what it was designed for.  To tell you the truth though I'm not looking forward to cutting and adjusting the Lancaster's Wings dihedral especially the way they explain it on the Instructions!  To some extent using the Frog Shackleton wings as on this one appears to be the easier way to go.  However each Modeller will obviously have their own preference of either cross kitting or modifying existing parts so each to their own as they say.  

 

One thing this set has done is made me schedule some more work on the Engines.  Definitely using the Frog Shackleton Engines as a basis is not the way to go as they require so much modification - it really is the difference in trying to make between a Griffon look like a Merlin (cue "Mission Impossible" music - and no not the Movies the old Series and no not the "new" Series that was shot in Australia in the 80s or 90s they are rather embarrassing!).  

 

So lots to do on the Engine front and then of course there is the still the Pythons or at least the hot end of those to have a go at.  

 

Now I was gong to do some low tech 70's style moulding of the Nose from this set (keeping in vogue with the 70's or 80's theme) but after making a pretty shabby mould out of what nowadays passes for some sort of Plasticene (which it appears you can't buy now or al least the type I used to use) I went to dig out the second tin of Polyester Resin that I "knew" hadn't gone off like the first tin I had that I knew had gone off and of course the second time had gone off too!  Bugger!  

 

So still thinking about what to do with the Nose.  

 

Now the last bit of news is the move has been further postponed (bit like planning an Invasion) but this time only by a couple of days so still doubtful just how much time I will get to spend on this but will be trying to keep plodding along with it as I really want to see it in that white scheme (might need some suggestions however as to Interior colour/s - Black? - and Bomb Bay colour - No Idea?) and with those menacing contra-rotating Pythons outboard!  (Maybe even a Tallboy or Grand Slam in the Bomb Bay?)  

 

[PeterB]

Early Shackletons seem to have had black interiors according to the research I did plus the instructions for the Revell re-box of the Frog kit, if that is any help. Failing that standard cockpit grey/green woukld perhaps do, or a mix of both in different arears.

[Rob S]

16 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Early Shackletons seem to have had black interiors according to the research I did plus the instructions for the Revell re-box of the Frog kit, if that is any help.

 

Thanks Pete yes very helpful as Graeme said the interior of the one he flew in was black (except where it was worn by people sliding over surfaces) so that's two votes for black.  

 

Now if only I could remember from standing under the Lincoln at Cosford what colour the Bomb Bay was I might have a lead on it's colour!  Might have to ask Graeme if he took a photo of it?  

 

By the way for those interested there is a good photo of RE339 Python Lincoln with Grand Slam on this Site : 

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/Lincoln-RE339/img998  

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Bombbays were Black (Night) as with any surface likely to be seen by the enemy from underneath.

[Rob S]

So big back track on the Engines after careful examination of those provided by Pete.  

 

I had started to "curve" sand down the top of the Engine cover to match the repositioned Spinner but soon realised this was not enough and needed to get in where the Exhausts were so have removed the Exhausts in a "wedge" type cut to try and match the "scallop" on the resin Engines so will have to replace the Exhausts later once the reshaping is done.  

 

Then putting them back to back the Griffon Nacelle is so much bigger than the Merlin so the earlier glued on 10 thou Cowl had to be removed on both but it did leave the filled rim which should be able to be rounded nicely to give that bulged look once a fair bit of the original kit Cowl has been sanded down to make it match the diameter of the resin Engines.  

 

So again the Lesson of Today is the Shackleton Engines are not a good starting point and I don't know why the Airfix Magazine Article actually added 10 thou when it probably has to lose 30 or 40 thou!  

 

Now the Question for today for the Masses is : 

 

"With respect to the Outer Nacelles on a "standard" Lincoln are the Shackleton Nacelles closer to the Lincoln Nacelles or are they closer to the Lancaster Nacelles?"  

 

and the Supplementary Question then is : 

 

"With respect to the Outer Nacelles on a "Python" Lincoln are the "stub" Nacelles that the Pythons are mounted on more likely to be derived from Lancaster Nacelles (given that the first Python installation was on a Lancaster) or from are they derived from Lincoln Nacelles?  (Bear in mind the differences in the dihedral of the Wings!)  

 

I will be very interested in what anyone can tell me otherwise I'll be making Nacelles to mount Pythons from both Lancaster and Lincoln Outer Nacelles and making a decision much later in the process unless clear evidence emerges!  

 

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

Looking at the resin Merlins, I did think the Shack Griffons were going to need an awful lot of work. As to outboard neacelles, well the only thing I know for certain is that both my Lincoln conversion sets provided replacement outer nacelles so they were clearly different from those on the Lanc. Unfortunately, having butchered my Shack ones to fit the Vipers I can't compare them properly - do the DB vacform ones provide any clues? The back ends look similar but the front end probably needs some work, As to the Python nacelles I have no idea.

Edited September 6, 2019 by PeterB

[Rob S]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:35 AM, PeterB said:

Hi Rob,

Looking at the resin Merlins, I did think the Shack Griffons were going to need an awful lot of work. As to outboard neacelles, well the only thing I know for certain is that both my Lincoln conversion sets provided replacement outer nacelles so they were clearly different from those on the Lanc. Unfortunately, having butchered my Shack ones to fit the Vipers I can't compare them properly - do the DB vacform ones provide any clues? The back ends look similar but the front end probably needs some work, As to the Python nacelles I have no idea.

 

Hello Pete : 

 

I compared the Shackleton Outer Nacelles to the DB Vacuform ones you sent over and I think they pretty much match them and also that's the way the Airfix Magazine Article went too (even though it's lost a bit of credibility using the Shackleton Engines!).  

 

With respect to the Pythons the Drawing in the Lancaster book is obviously related to the installation on the Lancaster and I was perhaps over speculating that they may have just transferred that over to the Lincoln however with the change in dihedral that may be very incorrect speculation.  I think what I'll do is make the Pythons "Universal" and make two separate pairs of stub mounting Nacelles - one for the Lancaster and one for the Lincoln based on each original (handed) Nacelle.  

 

Also with respect to the installation of the Python on the Lancaster I finally found Flight Global's Search function working again and found this : 

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949 - 0306.html?search=python lincoln  

 

Which has some useful photos of the mounting and the Oil Cooler underneath.  

 

Just a a small update too but without pictures (as the iPhone has lost it's Apples by the looks of it) and the Engines have gone on a WetnDry diet while I was watching the Ashes and lost a lot of their bulk and are now pretty close to the resin Engines and with the Exhausts removed severe reshaping has them even looking like the resin Engines.  I will have to break out a rotary tool of some sort (the Missuses' Dremel with flexible shaft that she hasn't used yet?) soon though to reshape the radiator interior and also shape that oval intake under the Spinner.  

 

Meanwhile I am "circularising" both of the remaining front ends of the Shackleton Inner Nacelles and started to thin them in the hope that they will become the intake "collars" on the Pythons.  

 

Possibly photos to follow if the iPhone decides to bear fruit again ... 

 

[Rob S]

OK some pretty poor photos to support the above otherwise it never happened!  

 

Firstly I should mention that I bought a pretty poor though affordable copy of the Harleyford book on the Lanc, York, Linc, Shack and found this little interesting line drawing : 

 

 

 

I think it actually might have been shown and/or mention on this website in the past (or maybe it was the Whif website?  Probably more likely!).  Very interesting nonetheless.  

 

So a "Bench" photo (or two) : 

 

  

 

  

 

and as you can see the Engines have been on a bit of a diet but are still a bigger diameter than the DB ones and the Exhausts are still in the wrong place so now I'm thinking a Baldrick style cunning plan might be to mould a couple of the DB Engines to use on this one and throw one on these modified Griffon engines with Shackleton Contra Props onto a Sea Fury to make the Griffon powered LA610.  Will never finish it what with the timeframe, late start, and not to mention the move but what the heck it adds to the build list (and gives Dave yet more work to do)!  

 

Also you might be able to see the Cockpit and Cockpit Floor / Bombbay Roof parts cut off the Sprue / collected from the Bag.  I tried a trial fit and that warp in the Fuselage is going to be problematic, very problematic.  Also I noted that one hinge is broken off one Bombbay Door and when I go to see how they fit on the Fuselage they end up badly fitting and with a gap at the rear!  So lots to work out what is going on there or just model it with the Bombbay Doors open?  

 

Anyone here built a Frog Lanc and knows or remembers what the Bombbay Doors were like?  

 

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Good luck with the move.

 

Pete

[Rob S]

Thanks Pete.  I should be getting some sleep for all the heavy lifting tomorrow (today now) instead of watching the Cricket!  

 

[JOCKNEY]

Any more news on this epic build ?

[Rob S]

Apologies to all for the lack of progress on this.  

 

The sad fact is we are still moving (Week 5!) and I still can't see the light at the end of the Tunnel in terms of setting up a Modelling area and getting back to the Build.  

 

Worse part is the damage to my hands from all the moving and handling stuff and cleaning resulting in little or no skin and cracks everywhere that take ages to heal means it'll be a while too before my hands are up to doing anything fiddly without being as painful as anything.  

 

Maybe @Romeo Alpha Yankee was right and I might get this finished in a future Frog Squad V GB?  

 

Hopefully things will have settled down within the next three weeks so that I'll be able to Co-Drive with @Graeme H and attend ScaleACT in Canberra in November.  

 

[smellybeard]

6 minutes ago, Rob S said:

The sad fact is we are still moving (Week 5!) and I still can't see the light at the end of the Tunnel in terms of setting up a Modelling area and getting back to the Build.  

Same boat here.

I went scribing this morning and couldn't find my dynamo tape, templates, dividers or pin vice. Some items might be here in unmarked boxes.

 

[JOCKNEY]

Hi @Rob S

I'm really sorry to hear how stressful your move has been.

I hope your hands heal quickly and life returns to some normality at the earliest opportunity. 

Take care Pat

[Max Headroom]

I hope the hands get better soon. You can continue this as a stand-alone build.

 

Trevor

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. It is 40 years since I last moved house, and although I had only lived in my old house for 4 years I had a pile of stuff to move. Clearly your move is a lot harder and you are under a lot more time pressure than I ever was either with the move, or more recently with my ruddy wall. I was able to do things slowly, carefully, and wear gloves to protect my hands - you clearly are not! I hope things calm down soon and you can take a while to get over it.

 

All the best

 

Pete

[Rabbit Leader]

One must protect those precious modelling hands (and eyes) Rob. Hope you recovery quickly and are in shape to do your driving stint when you and Graeme embark on that annual southern Aussie modelling venture. 

Cheers.. Dave