Gladiators in WW2 - Old and New Airfix

[bigbadbadge]

Lovely Gladiators,  great work . I missed these the first time round  sorry.

Chris

[tonyot]

Very nice Ed and two lovely schemes too. ..... something a bit different.

Cheers

         Tony

[Ed Russell]

7 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Apologies for resurrecting this thread after so long, 

May I just ask where the information for the blue rudder stems from?

No apologies necessary! The blue seems universal on profiles but I would not take this as gospel. The pictures referred to in my notes above are now at https://www.belgian-wings.be/gloster-gladiator and seem to show that all of them had coloured tails.  I have not looked at primary sources and there appears to be no colour photo extant. The ABT decals and other secondary sources quote two references - Désastre à Schaffen - Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt and Escadrilles Au Combat - Jean Delaet either or both of which purportedly have allusions to the colourful red and blue markings of Escadrille  La Comete.  there is not much doubt the comet was red so it's a reasonable assumption the coloured tail was blue. I will see if I can find at least one of my secondary sources.

[Noel Smith]

Really nice models of this iconic biplane.

Question! Is the new kit a very recent Airfix retool?I

Is the old kit the Heller one, produced when the two brands were co owned, or the very old original Airfix kit where the pilot's head was moulded into the fuselage?

[Ed Russell]

42 minutes ago, Noel Smith said:

Really nice models of this iconic biplane.

Thank you!

I bought both kits in 2013. The newer one is the 2013 release so it was very new when I made it.

The older one came in a nice box with excellent decals but it was still the 1956 release Gladiator. In the notes above you will see I performed a craniotomy on the pilot!

[2996 Victor]

11 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

No apologies necessary! The blue seems universal on profiles but I would not take this as gospel. The pictures referred to in my notes above are now at https://www.belgian-wings.be/gloster-gladiator and seem to show that all of them had coloured tails.  I have not looked at primary sources and there appears to be no colour photo extant. The ABT decals and other secondary sources quote two references - Désastre à Schaffen - Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt and Escadrilles Au Combat - Jean Delaet either or both of which purportedly have allusions to the colourful red and blue markings of Escadrille  La Comete.  there is not much doubt the comet was red so it's a reasonable assumption the coloured tail was blue. I will see if I can find at least one of my secondary sources.

 

Hi Ed,

 

many thanks for the extra info! The blue rudders seem to have the acquired the mantle of being an urban myth, although there is a distinct change in markings between having the serial number on both the fin and rudder to on the fin only, so perhaps there may be a correlation there.

 

I have searched for Désastre à Schaffen by Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt, which has led me to Aero Journal No.12, a copy of which I have ordered from that well-known internet auction site, and Escadrilles Au Combat by Jean Delaet I've ordered from AbeBooks - both will test my dismal schoolboy French to the extreme!

 

If you could shed any more light, I for one would be extremely interested.

 

Many thanks once again and kind regards,

 

Mark

[2996 Victor]

3 hours ago, Noel Smith said:

Really nice models of this iconic biplane.

Question! Is the new kit a very recent Airfix retool?I

Is the old kit the Heller one, produced when the two brands were co owned, or the very old original Airfix kit where the pilot's head was moulded into the fuselage?

 

Hi Noel,

 

the "new" kit is the 2013 Airfix tool, and although I haven't built one yet it has a very good reputation. Certainly, the quality of the mouldings and standard of detail is excellent. I've hoovered up several for future builds.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Tweener]

Both are looking great, and I'm especially happy to see the older kit built to such a nice standard! I may be the only one, but I seem to more enjoy building the older toolings of kits to the best level I can instead of buying the newer tools and having everything already provided. Hence my love for Matchbox and Heller Gladiator kits. I'll have to try the FROG and older Airfix next.

[stevehnz]

6 hours ago, Tweener said:

Hence my love for Matchbox and Heller Gladiator kits. I'll have to try the FROG and older Airfix next.

The Matchbox & Heller Glads are quite nice kits, I believe even the Frog one is ok though I've not handled one, the original Airfix is several levels below the others & is best thought of as a product of it's time, imho anyway.

Steve.

[Ed Russell]

19 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

the original Airfix is several levels below the others

I have to agree - it probably looked pretty basic in 1956 .......... people have said nice things about my build here but it's not really that great!

[stevehnz]

It's a nice build of that kit, more than that could be guilding the lilly a bit Ed. I do like the Belgian one, nowadays Airfix have conveniently given us the decals for it. Your Khaki top colour looks convincing, do you recall the ratios of 150 & 155 you used. I'll let you off if you can't after this time.

Steve.

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Your Khaki top colour looks convincing,

Agreed - it seems to fit the bill perfectly!

[Ed Russell]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:44 AM, Ed Russell said:

I will see if I can find at least one of my secondary sources.

 

From the Osprey Gladiator book.

[John Masters]

Really super Gladiators regardless of vintage.  I am puzzled why the watermark remains.  It kind of ruins the new for me.

[Ed Russell]

41 minutes ago, John Masters said:

I am puzzled why the watermark remains

Because they were originally posted before the Great Botophucket rip-off. I might change them to another host as there seems to be a revival of interest in the thread. 

[2996 Victor]

45 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

 

From the Osprey Gladiator book.

 

Hi Ed,

That's absolutely brilliant, thank you! I've received a copy of Profile Publications No.98, just for interest's sake as much as anything!

I might get the Osprey book as well, it's been on my wanted list for a while.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Mark

[John Masters]

8 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

I might change them to another host as there seems to be a revival of interest in the thread. 

Yes please.  They really are fine builds and the watermarks are...well...not very nice.

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, John Masters said:

Yes please.  They really are fine builds and the watermarks are...well...not very nice.

 

Agreed! Please do, Ed! They're super builds.

[FalkeEins]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:25 AM, 2996 Victor said:

 

 

 

I have searched for Désastre à Schaffen by Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt, which has led me to Aero Journal No.12

 there's rather more on Belgian Gladiators on this page 

http://vvjack.be/PORTAIL/articles.php?pg=art118

 

which looks as though its been translated here

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/gladiator_belgium.htm

[2996 Victor]

13 minutes ago, FalkeEins said:

 there's rather more on Belgian Gladiators on this page 

http://vvjack.be/PORTAIL/articles.php?pg=art118

 

which looks as though its been translated here

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/gladiator_belgium.htm

Hi there,

Many thanks for the links - the first one is a particularly interesting site, and Google offered an adequate translation! There looks like a lot of great info on there quite apart from the Gladiator page.

The second link I'd already found, and again the site seems to have a great deal of useful information, not just on the Gladiator.

Kind regards,

Mark

[Noel Smith]

I forgot that Frog back in the really old days (60's I guess) and Matchbox a bit later on (70's ?) also made Gladiator kits.

Going up a scale to 1/48th, how does the old 1960's Impact/Pyro kit compare with the Roden one?

[Black Knight]

Frog Gladiator = 1973

Matchbox Gladiator = 1972

Heller Gladiator = 1978

Airfix, original = 1956

Airfix, new tool kit = 2013

[Ed Russell]

Okay, for @John Masters and @2996 Victor in particular, the images have been de-Botophucketed!

[Wulfman]

Lovely builds on both Gladiators, puts my Hobby Boss build to shame !

 

Wulfman

[John Masters]

6 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

the images have been de-Botophucketed!

Many thanks!  It is much more enjoyable experience!