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In the past I've used ordinary 2 pack car body filler but more recently, I've switched to 2-pack wood filler which is a lot cheaper and seems to be identical.  It sets in a few minutes and sands very easily though it does generate a lot of dust.  Once the first rough fill is sanded, I'll seal the wood with sanding sealer and then I can apply a further very thin coat of the 2 part filler and then sand to a perfect finish for painting

 

I'll document all this in the build

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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Nice bit of planking there Steve.

Not sure how this diagonal planking is constructed but I vaguely remember seeing an old launch having diagonal planking and of what I saw, seemed like it was made of a number of layers, each travelling in a different direction. Can you clarify?

 

Stuart

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On 10/25/2021 at 4:40 AM, Steve D said:

Paul,

 

Very cool, MTB70 was a 70ft Vosper boat, of this pattern, how can you not want to build it!  Surely I can temp you away from plastic this one time?

 

Anyway, let me show you how easy it is, then you can join in

 

Cheers

 

Steve

Steve,

 

I've been watching this thread with interest as I'm definitely up to make a 1/48th scale Coastal Forces boat.  In my case a 1/48 RNZN Fairmile.  I don't wish to sidetrack your excellent build thread by I have a question.  Like the other Paul I'm totally happy working in plastic but a total novice in hard wood so what do you believe are the advantages of building with wood over plastic.  The only tangable difference I've seen so far is ability to laser cut wood templates.

 

Another Plastic Paul 

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11 hours ago, Courageous said:

old launch having diagonal planking and of what I saw, seemed like it was made of a number of layers, each travelling in a different direction. Can you clarify?

Hi Stuart,

 

From what I've read it was two layers at 90 degrees to each other with a waterproof cloth lining placed between them.  For vessels up to 120 feet of so, its advantages were more to so with rapid scaling up of production and lower skill requirements on the part of the boat yard.  This because the planks do not need tapering, or in the case of hard chine vessels, really even much bending.  They were also faster to build than say S-boats which used traditional highly skilled craftsman to manufacture.   These advantages also apply to 1/4inch...  Much above that length, the longitudinal weakness compared to normal for and aft planking would start to tell.  So it was ideal for these fast launches and the Fairmile's 

 

Hope that helps

 

Steve

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1 hour ago, dcrfan said:

I'm definitely up to make a 1/48th scale Coastal Forces boat.  In my case a 1/48 RNZN Fairmile.

HI Paul,

 

In that case you might find some interest in my Fairmile B build of a couple of years ago Fairmile B.  The hull on that boat was solid wood infill between frames and then externally clad in diagonal timber.  The reason I went to the trouble of cladding it was in an attempt to show, in some lighting conditions, the effect of the diagonal planking that can be seen on the real vessels.  Not in your face, but subtle.  To be honest, that particular experiment didn't go that well as my heavy handed paint job managed to mask most of the cladding, though if you look close, some can be detected, But anyway, that was my intention  

 

IMG_1382

 

The point I was trying to make is that once you embark on using timber for hulls, you move away from being tied to the vessels kit manufacturers think you want to build.  A lot of people seem afraid to make the step to scratch-building and all I'm trying to show is that its relatively easy, not terrifying in any way.  Once you make that step, you can build anything you can find sufficient information on to any scale you like.  I like 1:48th as my mind is adjusted to what I can achieve in that scale.  Kit manufacturers don't seem to like it much.  Now I've seen very good scratchbuilt plastic models on this forum, @Dancona HMS Victorious is a beautiful model., I just don't like working with plastic myself is all, it never does what I want it to...

 

So, build what you like any way you like with stuff you are comfortable with.  I like wood for hulls, its what I do :footy:

 

Thanks for the interest in my project

 

Steve

 

 

Edited by Steve D
mistake
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More planking, is it boring, well yes, a bit.  Still quite quick really

 

However, as I think I've said before, there is nothing better for getting inside the mind of the designer than planking a hull.  The shape comes alive in your fingers, one of the best bits of the hobby imho

 

 

Lower hull both sides layer one completed

 

DSCN2289

 

And with the edges trimmed, bow blocks in place, and sanded roughly to shape, first coat of sealing filler added and sanded.  Hull quite stiff now

 

DSCN2290

 

And a good start made on the upper hull to the sheer line.  Note the planks sit in the pocket left by the over length lower hull planking.  This join gets covered up with a timber rubbing strip later

 

DSCN2292

 

I've decided to add the rear deck after the side planking as its much easier to add the planks overlength and just cut and sand them back to fit the deck.  It also means the deck ply will sit on top of the plank edges perfectly

 

Anyway, seems OK so far....  This is a certainly a quick way to build a hull, though the hard chine shape does make it easier.  Starting again, I'd probably add the intermediate frames as the lower hull shape has lost some reflex definition in this process due to the spans involved.  Still that's why we try things out, to learn.  However, I don't think anyone will notice it once the model is complete so as long as you lot don't tell anyone, I'm OK ..:nerdy:

 

Steve

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Steve,

 

Thanks for your response.  I am very familiar with your Fairmile B thread.  Reading it is actually what made me realise a 1/48 scratch built of one used in Pacific by RNZN was possible. I started building a 1/48 RNZAF Pacific WW2 airstrip which requires scratchbuilding of numerous Commonwealth vehicles, a few aircraft and lots of coconut trees😪.  I then added a small beach and wharf scene.  The two holes in the sea are for a LCM 3 and a US PT boat (just because it was an existing 1/48th kit). To exchange a Fairmile for the PT boat will require a significant extension of the sea module. 

 

50772126618_c246b3be01_k.jpgfullsizeoutput_1b08 by tankienz, on Flickr

 

I have the Lambert & Ross Fairmile book and using the profile and plank method used in this build rather than the solid hull on your Fairmile thread I really think it is doable (in plastic🤪). Thanks for your wisdom and the inspiration.   

Edited by dcrfan
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35 minutes ago, dcrfan said:

has lost some reflex definition

Sure, what I mean is that the hull beneath the chine is in the form of a very shallow bell curve (for those that remember their maths, the point of contra flexure in a bell curve is here the gradient changes sign hence I used the word reflex, probably not the right word...), so the planks are at right angles to the keel and almost horizontal at the chine.  Because I didn't install intermediate frames, the stiffness of the 0.5 mm lime wood means that this curve is lacking, in cross section, the lower hull is more like a shallow triangle.  This is what happens when you try stuff. 

 

So, I'm left with the decision to forget about it or do something about it.  I don't want to ditch the whole thing and start over, seems a shame as the rest is working out.  Overnight, I've decided to lay some fore/aft planking along the keel and chine lines and then sand the curve back in.  I think that, while not perfect, this method will give me a better lower hull form.  As ever, filler is my friend

 

We'll see how this works out and I will post the results.  As I keep repeating, my models are all just the sum of my mistakes :worry:

 

I'm glad the Fairmile thread helped, the diorama looks most impressive, good luck with the build!

 

Steve

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I'm afraid this is the last post for a couple of weeks as we are finally going on holiday after 15 months of home time.  Still, I've got the project to the place I want to get to this week so that's good

 

Continued planking the second side

 

DSCN2297

 

Then I cleaned it up ready for filling

 

DSCN2294

 

First round of filling complete and sanded back, 

 

DSCN2295

 

Then I added two strips each side of the keel and one on each chine line and filled back to them and sanded a lot more.  Then I added a coat of varnish to stabilise it all, this is the result

 

DSCN2299

 

Lower hull bell curve much better, certainly ok for this scale.  The filling needs more tidy up, but good enough to move on to the deck

 

The open bridge has a door leading to the lower wheelhouse, which if left open, might just show some inner detail.  So, I've created a box oout incase I decide to detail the area, can't do it without leaving the whole...

 

DSCN2298

 

Interesting that even though the superstructure is all kinds of angles, this lower space is rectangular

 

Deck cut and fitted in 1/64th ply, the paper is attached with frame mount which comes away easily as you can see the foredeck is now bare wood

 

DSCN2300

 

And so, here we are.  The hull structure complete and ready for the next stage of deck house construction when we return.  Good place to leave matters

 

DSCN2301

 

I worried a lot about the torpedo troughs but in the end, they have worked out really well, the sheer line is crisp and dips down correctly, at least that bit came out as intended, big improvement on the s-boat where I was filling and sanding for ever... 👍

 

Back in two weeks for more progress on this little project

 

Cheers and thanks for following

 

Steve

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When I'm in the zone, nothing stops me and I've been planning this for 3 months, wanted to get to a neat stop point before the holiday. 

 

This part was quick, but actually not much work really, I assure you is will slow down from here on🧑‍🦼

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Ooh, nice! :popcorn: Not sure how I missed this for a month, but I'm on it, now!

On 10/24/2021 at 8:54 AM, Steve D said:

 

THE ROYAL NAVY DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR

 

Note only one rudder shaft runs to the deck level for manual tiller attachment, the other one stops at the actuation arm.  Interesting the boat next to it has this detail on the starboard side while MTB70 has it on the port 

I expect the tiller could be attached to either rudder depending on the conditions.

 

On 10/29/2021 at 12:00 AM, dcrfan said:

The two holes in the sea are for a LCM 3 and a US PT boat (just because it was an existing 1/48th kit).

The HB LCM3 will need a fair amount of work.

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11 hours ago, dnl42 said:

I expect the tiller could be attached to either rudder depending on the conditions.

I did think that myself however there is an upper sleeve that locates the tiller and takes the bending moment. This sleeve only shows on one side from what I can see. I guess it could have been demountable but why go to that bother, still a little puzzled by this. It’s these little things that I love about this hobby

 

one other feature that is very distinctive and mentioned a few times in the reference books are the coiled ropes on the forecastle and at the stern. Before we left for holiday, I dug our the rope walk I made many years ago. Will set that up when we’re back and have another go at rope making. True rope lays flat and curves in a way that braided cord can never do. Should be fun 

 

cheers

 

Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back and back to work

 

First, continuation of getting the hull surface sanded and filled properly

 

DSCN2302

 

Looks good, but with all the different shades its hard to see the blemishes, so quick coat of grey primer

 

DSCN2303

 

And the problems jump out

 

More sanding and a move to find surface filler (car body stuff) and its starts to take shape better shape

 

DSCN2305

 

Now, I'm not making excuses, but the effect I'm going for is not perfection, I want to leave a hint of the diagonal planking and also the odd blemish as real baots are like that.  To my odd mind, plastic kits look too good and that impacts on realism.  I'm probably alone in this view...

 

Still this stage seemed good enough to add the rubbing strips in 1 mm sq lime

 

DSCN2306

 

Nicely defines the chine and sheer line, in particular round the torpedo cut-out, a very distinctive feature of this boat.  In the shot below, I've also added the bow edge strip in 1 mm x .5 mm line.  This is not a rubbing strip as the sides have, it is just a defined flat.  The inside edge of the torpedo tube cut-outs is raised on the deck and these three join together as the second image shows. 

 

DSCN2309

 

DSCN2308

 

Then the chine strip is faired in with more fine surface filler to strengthen and complete the smooth lower hull form.  Not really obvious in the picture, sorry

 

DSCN2310

 

So, I'm leaving the hull there and moving onto the wheelhouse, post tomorrow on that item.  After that I'll cycle back to the scuttles and engine cooling water outlets which are quite prominent and an interesting challenge

 

So far, so good

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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26 minutes ago, Dmitriy1967 said:

Why did you first insert the pipes for the propellers,

The true alignment of the propeller shafts are key to the look of the boat and in particular propeller clearance.  A tiny angle difference makes a big difference in this.  I always set the holes in the frames for them before planking to ensure this angle is correct, then sheathe them afterwards. Also, not in this case, but on some vessels (like the s-boat) the outer shafts are not parallel with the keel but set at a slight angle, without the right alignment holes, I would just mess this up

 

To me, this is simpler than trying to align the hole correctly afterwards

 

Correctly, this hull entry has a fitting plate that slides over the outer shaft and covers the actual hull entry, I will probably etch this plate as it has surface bolts

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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How on Earth did this escape me for so long!?!? 😱

 

Welcome back!

 

I would love to take up this offer and have a crack at building this alongside someone who actually knows what they are doing. However, I can’t really commit to this right now as I already have three live projects in BM and have committed to RMS Aquitania in a February group-build. 
 

So keep going and I will yell encouragement from the sidelines.

 

Best Regards 

Steve

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

So keep going and I will yell encouragement from the sidelines.

Sounds good, the offer remains open for whenever you are ready.  I'm learning a lot as I go as ever, so worth letting me walk across the minefield before committing :bomb:

 

btw, let me know who that guy is who's knows what he is doing, I'd like to meet him....

 

Steve

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2 hours ago, Steve D said:

The true alignment of the propeller shafts are key to the look of the boat and in particular propeller clearance.  A tiny angle difference makes a big difference in this.  I always set the holes in the frames for them before planking to ensure this angle is correct, then sheathe them afterwards. Also, not in this case, but on some vessels (like the s-boat) the outer shafts are not parallel with the keel but set at a slight angle, without the right alignment holes, I would just mess this up

 

Thanks for the explanation, Steve!

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Deck or wheelhouses always present an interesting challenge due to the number of strange shaped facets they  have.  The first challenge is actually working out what shape they are.  The early war 70ft Vospers (30-34 etc) had a cranked diagonal rear and a curved wind deflector both of which are quite clear in this image

 

bridge1

 

In construction, they were made of plywood and then had some armour plate bolted to them.  The wheelhouse roof was canvas covered.  Well we can copy all that with ease.  I'm using 0.5 mm ply for the main structure and intend to reproduce the armour plating with etched brass which will also incorporate the window frame detail.  I'll use a linen handkerchief to cover the roof, I love 1:48th scale...

 

I tend to make my deck houses removable as it makes final assembly easier, but the initial build slightly more challenging.  That's why I incorporated the well in the deck, to receive the lower wheelhouse

 

Here is my GA and expansion drawing of the wheelhouse

 

wheelhouse1

 

The rear wings (to the left of this drawing) will be etched brass as they were metal on the full size vessels.  The side windows were welded up in service and often covered with splinter matting for extra protection so I won't be cutting these out in the ply (cheating a little).  The front windows do not need to be so accurate as the final form comes from the brass etching. 

 

A point on my build sequence, I need to make the pieces that need brass etching added before I do the etching drawings and the wind deflector is a key element in this, so making the wheelhouse early allows me to balance build with drawing work.

 

The main structure is built around three transvers frames, glued together with spacers

 

DSCN2312

 

Sorry, a little out of focus.  The curved wind deflector stumped me for a bit, so I've gone for a solid block of 6 mm sq lime sanded to the curve and cut out to allow for the door access.  The lower frame slots into the well in the deck

 

DSCN2311

 

The sides actually run forward to the bulkhead and close those opening

 

DSCN2313

 

For the forward planes, I mounted a ply former  that rests on the deck and acts to close it all up and strengthen matters.  I'm using thin cyno (new experience for me, many glued fingers...) however, for edge to edge seams in .5mm ply it works well

 

DSCN2314

 

Here it is with the forward planes mounted

 

DSCN2315

 

The rear open bridge sits 12 inches off the deck, here is the base and side skirts fitted.  Note the transvers 6mm lime wood needs sanding to the camber of the deck

 

DSCN2316

 

And finally installed on deck

 

DSCN2317

 

I love this stage as it looks so like the part completed real boats you see, plywood wheelhouse awaiting the next stage

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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