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Beazer

Identify this Plane!

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49507334616_412671b2eb_b.jpg

 

I'm hoping someone may be able to assist in the identification of this plane.  I did a cursory search on the interwebs and found out nothing.

 

It was flying to Jasper in some capacity for the railway to Jasper, Alberta when it crashed in the yard.

 

The picture was taken in 1947.  I am not aware if it was a civilian or military aircraft but to me it looks like a P-40 tail.

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Not a P-40 I don't think, but also not a Norseman.

 

DennisTheBear

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Beazer,

 

My guess, looking at the fin/rudder and stabilizers, is that the wreck is either a Fairchild PT-19,  PT-23, or PT-26 Cornell. The PT-19 had a Ranger inline engine and two open cockpits, the PT-23 had a radial engine  and open cockpits, and the PT-26 was a PT-19 with an enclosed cockpit built for the Canadian Commonwealth Air Training program. After the war, I'm sure many were surplussed for sale to civilians and government agencies. Seeing as how the crash site was in Canada, my best guess would be that the photo is of a PT-26, but it could be either of the other two variants, as the airframes were identical for all three except for the engine, cowling, and canopy. See the linked photo of a PT-26. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fairchild_PT-26_RCAF_FH664_(4557030056).jpg

 

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Yes, it looks like a Cornell to me.  The straight leading edge to the fin, join line with the rudder and the just-visible ribs on the rudder itself all point to a Cornell or variant.

 

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My guess is the PT-26 you can see the remnants of the canopy in front of the tail with broken glass in the framework. 

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I have to disagree with the Cornell idea. The rudder line at the top of the fin doesn't quite match a Cornell's.

 

49507242513_0b89127b8b_c.jpg

 

If only we could see the serial number!

 

Oh, I also did a quick search of plane crashes in the Jasper area, but so far, all I found is one from 1973.

 

 

 

Chris

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

My guess,

I think that your spot on...…………..2 x tyres/wheels lie on the railway line and if you look between the fin and cockpit, you can just see the edge of the framing for the canopy

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Harvard? Yale? But judging from the items in the right foreground, it appears to have had a bicycle landing gear. :rofl:
 

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1 hour ago, Space Ranger said:

Harvard? Yale?

Don't think so- look at the curved trailing edge of the crashed aircraft and then see the same area in the linked photo of a Harvard, which has a straight rudder trailing edge. Might be an NA-57, though.

Mike

 

 

https://www.skytamer.com/1.2/2.9.3/20090111-0166.jpg

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Out of curiosity and because I had nothing better to do, I searched Canadian aircraft accident records every which way I could think of, and about all I was able to find out was that there have been a TON of aircraft accidents in Jasper, Alberta, but nothing in 1947 that could have been the aircraft that was in the photo that @Beazer posted. Oh, well- I tried!

Mike

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22 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Out of curiosity and because I had nothing better to do, I searched Canadian aircraft accident records every which way I could think of, and about all I was able to find out was that there have been a TON of aircraft accidents in Jasper, Alberta, but nothing in 1947 that could have been the aircraft that was in the photo that @Beazer posted. Oh, well- I tried!

Mike

 

I just finished looking through Jasper's archive, where they have other photos with similar JYMA numbered photos but NOTHING! I also did a search of Alberta plane crashes but nothing around Jasper in that time frame.

 

 

Chris

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I'll forward this photo to the Canadian Aviation Historical Society, of which I am a member. No doubt they will have an answer.

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1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

@Beazer, just where did you find this photo?

 

 

 

Chris

I'm on a railroad facebook forum and they had posted it.

Id like to ultimately find and build this but in the pre-crash state lol.

Didnt realize how much interest would be in this.  Thank you guys for all your thoughts and efforts.

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1 minute ago, Beazer said:

I'm on a railroad facebook forum and they had posted it.

Id like to ultimately find and build this but in the pre-crash state lol.

Didnt realize how much interest would be in this.  Thank you guys for all your thoughts and efforts.

 

Hey, it's Canadian, it's Albertan and it's an airplane! How could I not be interested?

 

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I have to disagree with the Cornell idea. The rudder line at the top of the fin doesn't quite match a Cornell's.

 

49507242513_0b89127b8b_c.jpg

 

If only we could see the serial number!

 

Oh, I also did a quick search of plane crashes in the Jasper area, but so far, all I found is one from 1973.

 

 

 

Chris

I believe it looks odd because the rudder is deflected. Here is my vote,   PT-26A

spacer.png

Rear fuselage shape matches

Fabric covered fuselage

Protuberance on top of rudder matches. Probably a light.

Fuselage code in right place

Main gear strut seems to match

fixed landing gear

Rear canopy bulkhead is the right place and shape

tail wheel strut in same location

fabric covered wing

 

 

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R.W. Walker's "Canadian Military Aircraft Serial Numbers" site (http://www.rwrwalker.ca/) records virtually all of the Cornells being disposed of by 1946. Some, however, were issued to Canada's Royal Flying Club Association, and four of these went to flying clubs in Alberta, three to the Edmonton Flying Club. One of these, c/n 1090 (ex-FV222) was registered CF-CVQ in July 1947 and written off the following September (https://historicccar.ca/index.php?option=com_aircraft&indexfield=FCVQ). Perhaps this was the aircraft in the photo. Walker died, however, before his mammoth project could be completed, and although his site is still being maintained, many Cornell histories were not posted before his death.

 

I've forwarded the photo to the Canadian Aviation Historical Society with a request for help in identifying it.

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A plane crash Canadian National Railway yard. The plane was making a pass over the town to alert Pete Noullet and Bob Baxter Sr. of its arrival when a box shifted in the cockpit forcing the nose of the plane down.
[ca 1947]

 

Thats all I’ve got.

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14 hours ago, Beazer said:


A plane crash Canadian National Railway yard. The plane was making a pass over the town to alert Pete Noullet and Bob Baxter Sr. of its arrival when a box shifted in the cockpit forcing the nose of the plane down.
[ca 1947]

 

Thats all I’ve got.

I've forwarded this info to the CAHS as well. I am quite confident that this will help identify the aircraft. There is the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton, and I would forward the photo and caption to them as well, but I do not have an email address; only a web form and no way to attach a photo.

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15 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

I've forwarded this info to the CAHS as well. I am quite confident that this will help identify the aircraft. There is the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton, and I would forward the photo and caption to them as well, but I do not have an email address; only a web form and no way to attach a photo.

 

The Alberta Aviation Museum does have a Facebook page and I've just messaged them with the picture included.

 

 

Chris

 

 

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37 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

 

The Alberta Aviation Museum does have a Facebook page and I've just messaged them with the picture included.

 

 

Chris

 

 

Excellent. My ancient steam-powered FrankenMac computer doesn't like Facebook, or I'd done that myself.

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I just heard from the CAHS newsletter editor. Our inquiry (and photo) will appear in the upcoming February issue. It will include my email address as contact. As soon as I get a response, I'll post here.

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I've gotten zip all back from The Aviation Museum. I await any results from CAHS.

 

 

 

Chris

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Greetings,

 

If I may, please note that the Fairchild Cornell registered as CF-CVQ seemingly crashed (early in the morning?), 10 or so miles from Edmonton, Alberta, which is some distance from Jasper.

 

Renald Fortier, Canada Aviation and Space Museum, Ottawa

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