**Dawn of the Jet Age - pre 1950 - we got 30!

[trickyrich]

This is something I have been thinking about for sometime and thought I post it to see if there is any interest.

This would be a GB for the very first of the Jets, covering anything jet powered up to 01Jan1950. Stopping it just here allows it to cover the initial generation of Jets, the success and the failures.

This would be open to any aircraft Production or Prototype as long as it flew and can be either solely jet powered or a combination of jet and prop, Turbo-Props would be allowed as well. Plus civilian or military.

This opens it up to all the really interesting and weird designs that were tried and tested in this time period, some very successful and some not so. Some of the exotic Luftwaffe aircraft that ended up in Soviet hands, early English and American aircraft......everyone love a Meteor or Vampire! So check your stash and get your thinking caps on.

Again the only major stipulation is that the aircraft must have flown before 1950. But colour schemes for these aircraft outside this time frame are ok. So basically if an aircraft was built/in service before 1950 but has a colour scheme in the 50's or even in the 60's it would be fine.

If you keep the idea simple and you do a wee bit of research all will be fine.

Just updated title.

da list....

1, trickyrich - Host
2, TonyTiger66
3, Caenbannog
4, Arniec
5, theplasticsurgeon
6, wyverns4
7, jrix
8, snapper_city
9, John Thompson
10, Bonhoff
11, Pinback
12, stevehnz
13, Sgt.Squarehead
14, Radleigh
15, Ghostbase
16, Kingtiger
17, Dave the Doctor
18, Wez
19, Jake Moon
20, Rob G
21, Angus Tuna
22, AndyC
23, SleeperService
24, specky
25, TheBaron
26, Christer A
27, Biggles87
28, Ronan71
29, Antoine
30, Levin

31, ZitchDog

[TonyTiger66]

Now this idea is slap bang in one of my interest areas; the early jets! I have all sorts of Airacomets, Heinkels and Arados. Definitely count me in on this one. I would most likely do an Arado 234, Heinkel 280 or if it is pre 1950, one of the earliest Argentine jets.

I wondered before anyone else asks, would pure rocket planes qualify too? There are some nice German and Soviet ones

Great idea!

Best regards

Tony

[trickyrich]

for the moment I'll leave it at just jet aircraft. Rockets should be under their own heading and I would have no exclusions other than they needed to be manned....but that's for another GB and time!

[TonyTiger66]

I just checked and the Kurt Tank designed IAe 33 Pulqui II first flew in Argentina in June 1950 Shame it's a pretty plane.

Still absolutely loads to go at!

Best regards

Tony

[Caerbannog]

Nice idea - would add a Gloster Pioneer, Lockheed P-80 or maybe some German Jet.

Just a question: A Horten 229 would qualify as it flew as a prototype - but all kits show Luft 46 subjects if I am not mistaken - so would these be allowed???

René

[trickyrich]

Nice idea - would add a Gloster Pioneer, Lockheed P-80 or maybe some German Jet.

Just a question: A Horten 229 would qualify as it flew as a prototype - but all kits show Luft 46 subjects if I am not mistaken - so would these be allowed???

René

That was one aircraft that I thought of as well. Depending on what you read there is the distinct possibility that the V2 model did actually fly in early 1945 but crashed during testing and was destroyed in April 1945. The V3 aircraft or the components of it were captured by the allies and this is the bases of all the models we see of the Ho-229. If you were to keep with the original prototype status of the aircraft, then I would say it would be allowed….no guns or weapons fitted and a very basic test camouflage.

My reasoning, because it is such an important aircraft in the evolution of the jet aircraft I am tempted to allow it, but it would have to be in the V3 or the V2 guise. I have the book on the Horten brothers and do need to read up on the subject more…..as they were really decades in advance of their contemporises. Done correctly I don’t see an issue with the Ho-229 at all, that goes for some of the other prototypes as well. The Junkers Ju-287 is a classic example, the original prototype actually flew, a forward swept, jet powered (4x Junkers Jumo 004’s) “Frankenstein” bomber, in August 1944. The project was abandoned in late 44 even though the flight characteristics we good. The project was resurrected in March 45, it is not known why. Prototypes V2 & V3 were captured by the Soviets, these were tested and flown by their later identification numbers EF-131 & EF- 140 in 1947 & 1949 respectively.

Though abandoned by the Soviets these were very advanced designs that actually flew and lead to future Soviet bomber designs!

There are no doubt other Jet designs that saw the light in test prototypes. If you can provide the details then they would be allowed as well.

On this subject, there are some incredible Soviet designs from this era as well, unfortunately models of these are pretty well non-existent, but I’m sure there are some scratch builders who would love the challenge!!! (if you know of any models please let me know as I’d love to have them!!!)

[Blastvader]

for the moment I'll leave it at just jet aircraft. Rockets should be under their own heading and I would have no exclusions other than they needed to be manned....but that's for another GB and time!

Emphasis mine.

That's a shame as my immediate thoughts were that it would be a great opportunity to build my Tamiya V-1, which though (pulse) jet powered, an an aircraft by all definitions, would not qualify I suppose?

[trickyrich]

Emphasis mine.

That's a shame as my immediate thoughts were that it would be a great opportunity to build my Tamiya V-1, which though (pulse) jet powered, an an aircraft by all definitions, would not qualify I suppose?

Arrrrrrrrrr.............

Why do people have to come up with all the hard questions!

You have really got me with that one.......you are both right and wrong with that....I can say both yes and no. But for simplicity sake I'll say yes it's ok........but there's bound to be someone who will disagree!!

Now if you want to start another thread for Rocket powered beasties, I'd be very happy to join that one as well!

[Arniec]

I'm in. got some Me 262's lying around and a He 280 and He 178 as well.

Cheers,

[trickyrich]

I'm in. got some Me 262's lying around and a He 280 and He 178 as well.

Cheers,

Well if the Me-262 STGB doesn't get up I was hopping this might. i've got some really interesting and very rare stuff that would be very appropriate for this GB.....if it gets up!

I soooo now want to build a Me-262....though I have a very rare resin Japanese version that's very interesting!

[TonyTiger66]

Emphasis mine.

That's a shame as my immediate thoughts were that it would be a great opportunity to build my Tamiya V-1, which though (pulse) jet powered, an an aircraft by all definitions, would not qualify I suppose?

I'm no expert on this, but I'm pretty sure the manned Fieseler V1 flew. I also think there was a two seat trainer variant? I seem to remember it was effectively a late war German 'suicide bomber' situation. I may be wrong, but pilots had the option to jump out with a parachute, but I think the design meant they would simply end up bashing themselves to oblivion on the pulse-jet.

This seemingly incredulous tale is something I'm sure I read in connection with Albert Speer. Now there's a fascinating subject (if I haven't got my wires crossed)

Best regards

Tony

[theplasticsurgeon]

Oh this should be right up my street - volunteer at Jet Age, this is what the musuem is all about.
However my stash is particularly lacking in British subject matter.

Definitely got 4 Me262s - so you would be seeing me sometime.
D.H. Sea Venom - first flight 1950
Republic F-84 Thunderjet - mine looks like a 1950 number.
A Lockheed T-33, but mine is Thunderbirds display team - which activated in 1953.

A few others right on that cusp of, prototype flew 1940s - introduced to service 1950s.

[wyverns4]

Interesting!

If it flew before 01/01/1950, but is modelled in markings that it carried later, (post 01/01/1950), would it still be applicable?

Christian, exiled to africa

[Caerbannog]

I'm no expert on this, but I'm pretty sure the manned Fieseler V1 flew. I also think there was a two seat trainer variant? I seem to remember it was effectively a late war German 'suicide bomber' situation. I may be wrong, but pilots had the option to jump out with a parachute, but I think the design meant they would simply end up bashing themselves to oblivion on the pulse-jet.

This seemingly incredulous tale is something I'm sure I read in connection with Albert Speer. Now there's a fascinating subject (if I haven't got my wires crossed)

Best regards

Tony

It flew - with Hanna Reitsch at the controls for example. There was even a twin seater.

The suicide bomber was suggested by infamous Hanna Reitsch and a test squadron was set up I think but did not became active AFAIK.

I have a Fieseler Reichenberg in stash... Could walk aside of my other build

[jrlx]

I would be interested in joining. I have two Me 262s in the stash, so I could also join the 262 GB if it eventually happens. I may have some other early jets but would have to check.

Cheers

Jaime

[Blastvader]

I'm no expert on this, but I'm pretty sure the manned Fieseler V1 flew. I also think there was a two seat trainer variant? I seem to remember it was effectively a late war German 'suicide bomber' situation. I may be wrong, but pilots had the option to jump out with a parachute, but I think the design meant they would simply end up bashing themselves to oblivion on the pulse-jet.

This seemingly incredulous tale is something I'm sure I read in connection with Albert Speer. Now there's a fascinating subject (if I haven't got my wires crossed)

Best regards

Tony

Hanna Reitsh was one of the test pilots I believe. Though Hitler was apparently never keen on the idea so it was dropped.

[Blastvader]

Arrrrrrrrrr.............

Why do people have to come up with all the hard questions!

You have really got me with that one.......you are both right and wrong with that....I can say both yes and no. But for simplicity sake I'll say yes it's ok........but there's bound to be someone who will disagree!!

Now if you want to start another thread for Rocket powered beasties, I'd be very happy to join that one as well!

Braw.

If not I've been looking at Trumpeter's Il-28 (as it's only £8) which first flew in 48 (so within the boundaries) and went in to service in 1950.

Decals wise though the earliest I can find are for the mid 60s though...

[snapper_city]

We're there any turbo props pre 1950?

Edit. A few listed in the text here including the Vickers Viscount.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop

Edited June 30, 2016 by snapper_city

[trickyrich]

Interesting!

If it flew before 01/01/1950, but is modelled in markings that it carried later, (post 01/01/1950), would it still be applicable?

Christian, exiled to africa

I would say yes, though the model/series of aircraft must pre-date 1950, but but if it was used in the 50's thats fine.

The F-84 Thunderjet is a good example, it first flew in 46 and everything up to the E model was in service before 1950, the F-84G though entered service in 1951 so can not be included. The F-84E's remanded in service until the mid 50's and the ANG used them right up till 59. So the Korean war & ANG schemes for these aircraft would be fine in this case.

Braw.

If not I've been looking at Trumpeter's Il-28 (as it's only £8) which first flew in 48 (so within the boundaries) and went in to service in 1950.

Decals wise though the earliest I can find are for the mid 60s though...

That one is hard, as far is I can tell the series production aircraft did not start going into service until early 1950, so don't quite make it. The prototypes would be fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-generation_jet_fighter

The list here isn't that bad, but there are some glaring omissions, the Ar-234 being one!

We're there any turbo props pre 1950?

Edit. A few listed in the text here including the Vickers Viscount.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop

The only one I know of was the trent powered meteor, The Germans did have fully functioning engines used in bench tests and may have had some flying examples as well, but accurate info on them is really hard to find.

[John Thompson]

On this subject, there are some incredible Soviet designs from this era as well, unfortunately models of these are pretty well non-existent, but I’m sure there are some scratch builders who would love the challenge!!! (if you know of any models please let me know as I’d love to have them!!!)

1/72 kits in injection-molded styrene (unless noted otherwise) include:

Yak-15 - Amodel, PM

Yak-17 - Amodel, Special Hobby

Yak-23 - KP, Special Hobby

MiG-9 - Amodel, MPM

MiG I-250 (hybrid) - Prop&Jet resin

La-15 - Aer Moldova/Unda/Cooperativa

La-174K - Amodel

Several Lavochkin experimentals kitted in resin by Prop&Jet

Sukhoi Su-9K - Prop&Jet resin

These are just the reasonably recent ones that I can think of off the top of my head, and which are likely to be available with a bit of digging, not older, hard-to-find kits, like early MPM or P&J vacuforms (Su-5) or kits from long-gone companies like Skarabey (La-15; La-174, IIRC)

If this GB comes to pass, I'd probably be in with an Amodel Yak-15 or MiG-9.

John

Edited July 1, 2016 by John Thompson

[trickyrich]

1/72 kits in injection-molded styrene (unless noted otherwise) include:

Yak-15 - Amodel, PM

Yak-17 - Amodel, Special Hobby

Yak-23 - KP, Special Hobby

MiG-9 - Amodel, MPM

MiG I-250 (hybrid) - Prop&Jet resin

La-15 - Aer Moldova/Unda/Cooperativa

La-174K - Amodel

Several Lavochkin experimentals kitted in resin by Prop&Jet

Sukhoi Su-9K - Prop&Jet resin

These are just the reasonably recent ones that I can think of off the top of my head, and which are likely to be available with a bit of digging, not older, hard-to-find kits, like early MPM or P&J vacuforms (Su-5) or kits from long-gone companies like Skarabey (La-15; La-174, IIRC)

If this GB comes to pass, I'd probably be in with an Amodel Yak-15 or MiG-9.

John

You know I came across a list like this earlier today while looking for something else.

Thanks for the list as my brain was struggling when I wrote the earlier post.

I may have to have a good look at some of these myself.

I'll add you to the list....we'll just have to see how we go with the numbers and the vote!

[styreno]

I'm not sure I understand the criteria. Is it "flying prototypes and operational types in service before 1950". Is that correct?

You have excluded rocket propulsion. How about motor-jets? (Coandă-1910, Caproni Campini N1, MiG 13, Su -5)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorjet

KE

[trickyrich]

I'm not sure I understand the criteria. Is it "flying prototypes and operational types in service before 1950". Is that correct?

You have excluded rocket propulsion. How about motor-jets? (Coandă-1910, Caproni Campini N1, MiG 13, Su -5)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorjet

KE

You are correct it has to have flown before 1950 including the sub-types.

To tell you the truth I wasn't aware of the "Motor-Jet", but these are just one-offs. They would be eligible in a way but I doubt very much we'll see any of them in the build. Yes rockets are excluded as they are fundamentally different to a Jet engine.

[styreno]

There were a huge number of 'one-offs' in this time frame that flew as prototypes or early series airframes.

Out of interest, I compiled a list of early German and British jet aircraft that had been kitted in 1/72 plastic and resin. I don't claim to be totally inclusive. Someone else may want to fill in missing candidates, and/or do the same for other nationalities.

German

Arado Ar 234

Fieseler Fi 103R

Heinkel He 162

Heinkel He 178
Heinkel He 280

Horten Ho IX / Go 229

Junkers Ju 287
Messerschmitt Me 262

British

Armstrong Whitworth AW.52
Avro Model 707
Boulton Paul P.108 Balliol T.Mk 1
Boulton Paul P.111
de Havilland Vampire
de Havilland 108 Swallow
Fairey Delta 1
Gloster E.28/39
Gloster E.1/44
Gloster Meteor
Hawker P.1040, P.1072
Saunders-Roe SR. A-1
Supermarine Attacker F.1
Supermarine Type 510, 517, 528, 535
Vickers VC.1 Viking

Edited July 1, 2016 by styreno

[Caerbannog]

Oh great - looking at your list I realize that I have way more options in stash. And most are British of course :-)

René