sloegin57 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/military-aircraft-could-make-a-return-to-leuchars-base-1.907104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) While I would be delighted if this were true, I just don't believe a word of it. First of all, as far back as 2010 (I think), the MOD stated that Leuchars would not be closed. Of course, we all know that to be a bare faced lie. Now, this rumour is about RAF Leuchars re opening as a maritime patrol base??? Sorry. I honestly think this is fantasy. For the RAF to move back to Leuchars would mean the government tacitly admitting it was wrong over its original decision. Politicians will never admit their mistakes so, it is my honest view that this will never come to pass. In any case, we have no maritime patrol aircraft and, given ministerial/political dithering and lack of money, I do not believe we will see these mythical MPAs in my lifetime. Besides, the mere fact that "leading figures" state the proposal makes "strategic sense" positively guarantees that Leuchars will not host these as yet non existent aircraft. Since when did politicians make any sensible decisions regarding the armed forces? (pause to remove cynical hat) Allan ps - Of course, I could be wrong!! Edited October 27, 2015 by Albeback52 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Allan - you wear the same size cynical hat that I do - obviously. Living only six miles from Leuchars as I do, I am now keeping a weather eye open for a "Don't turn Leuchars into an airfield" campaign. It'll happen !!. Dennis 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtd350 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 When I was made redundant from there in March, the RAF were keeping a small footprint at the base as a diversion airfield. This might actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I wonder if the Kawasaki P1 is also in the frame, if this purchase does go ahead? Can't help but wonder if its showing at RIAT was part of a marketing exercise. We desperately need something to patrol our shores... we're probably the only 'powerful' island nation that doesn't! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Allan - you wear the same size cynical hat that I do - obviously. Living only six miles from Leuchars as I do, I am now keeping a weather eye open for a "Don't turn Leuchars into an airfield" campaign. It'll happen !!. Dennis Leuchars already IS an airfield but, I know what you mean Dennis!. However, (putting cynical hat on once more), I suspect any such campaign would probably involve and be restricted to well heeled incomers with properties in North East Fife who have moved in to the area recently. Leuchars has been so much a part of the landscape in Fife that I suggest such a move would actually be generally welcomed . On a more practical note, such a proposal would entail keeping the runway serviceable. An earlier post indicates the RAF will maintain a token presence here so, presumably keeping the base operational on a care & maintenance basis for now might be an option? However, I will believe all this when I see it. I think the Kawasaki P1 is a non starter.If and when the UK government actually takes time to make its collective mind up, it will go through the motions of "choosing" but, in reality it will already have made its mind up thanks to extensive lobbying, pressure (and possibly other inducements) from the US to buy the P-8. Other than those 2, I do not know if there is any other MPA currently available or under development. Allan ( now very well worn cynical hat removed once more) Edited October 27, 2015 by Albeback52 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Considering the multi-role capability of an MPA, it is a perfect example of value for money, able to ply it`s trade in times of both war and peace. Any civilized maritime nation would be mad not to have MPA........oh, hang on. Cheers, Ian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 One of the prime drivers of our military procurement and operation has been compatibility and inter-operability with the US: you may phrase it rather stronger than that. It is difficult to see how this would be maintained by a buy of the Kawasaki P-1. Nor would it be cheaper than the US alternative, quite the contrary I suggest, quite apart from any other quid-pro-quo that might ensue. Would the best place for an MPA base be in Scotland? Yes, as the Greenland Gap is still there, if with little real evidence of a genuine threat. No, because most of our trade is not across the Atlantic but from the South, so St. Mawgan/Newquay would be better positioned to protect these routes. Is it financially a good idea to invest heavily in a base in Scotland where the secessionist movement is so strong and unwilling to accept the result of the recent referendum as anything more than a short-term setback? Is it politically a good idea to invest heavily precisely because that weakens the secessionist arguments? The Navy still has a strong investment, but for obvious if controversial reasons that does not carry the same political benefit. Has the continued operation of the UK in the absence of an MPA strengthened the case for re-introducing the capability at a time of continued financial stress? If it was to be re-introduced, and Scotland chosen for its base, is Leuchars the best place for it anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The added dimension is that one can`t view the loss of MPA capability in isolation. Part of the rational for their loss was that frigates/choppers/attack subs would take-up the slack, and then they were cut too. I believe the idea of Scotland as a base (other than the Cold-War legacy) is that North, South and East we expect to rely on NATO assistance, but the Western approaches are down to the UK, particularly the ingress and egress of subs from Faslane. Cheers, Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The assumption is that the threat with come from the north although the targets may well be to the south. I believe that has always been the case for the existence of Leuchars. Interesting to read that there is "strategic sense" to the idea of operating military aircraft from Leuchars (I guess the Army unit now based there isn't that effective against submarines or Tu95s). Would never have thought of that one myself, well done HMG. Duncan B (not particularly surprised if MoD makes another financially costly U Turn) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Since when did politicians make any sensible decisions regarding the armed forces? You're quite right. It's a well-known fact that every stupid decision about the armed forces was taken by politicians, while every sensible decision was taken by the armed forces themselves. They have, after all, never taken a stupid decision or buggered things up, ever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) You're quite right. It's a well-known fact that every stupid decision about the armed forces was taken by politicians, while every sensible decision was taken by the armed forces themselves. They have, after all, never taken a stupid decision or buggered things up, ever. Good morning Sean. On the assumption that you are replying to my earlier comment, I did not specifically state that every stupid decision regarding the armed forces was taken by politicians. I would like to say though that if you are implying that that the armed forces themselves are EQUALLY capable of screwing up then you are of course correct. Ultimately though, even when following advice from the military, policy decisions regarding the military are POLITICAL decisions and I absolutely, totally distrust those same politicians. I have my own view on the Leuchars closure but, this would contravene the "no politics" rule so I will say nothing further. With hindsight, perhaps I could have phrased things differently. Cheers Allan Edited October 28, 2015 by Albeback52 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_B Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Not likely to happen with the SNP in charge up there, they are just too keen in leaving the Union to put our MPA assets under risk of falling under their control at the moment. Plus they are looking at flexible platforms with a strong intellegence gathering role to replace Sentinel so more likely to go to Waddington, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Not likely to happen with the SNP in charge up there, they are just too keen in leaving the Union to put our MPA assets under risk of falling under their control at the moment. That's a good point but not entirely sure it would apply. After all, we have US aircraft based at Lakenheath. Such deployments are covered by the provisions of the Visiting Forces Act (I think?) . While I personally look forward to Scotland leaving the Union, it won't happen overnight or any time soon. Neither will the purchase and deployment of a new force of MPAs. An independent Scotland with NATO membership would likely have its own version of the current legislation which could allow deployment of foreign forces - which in this case would include the RAF!. Allan Edited October 28, 2015 by Albeback52 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Without getting political re bases in Scotland, there is always the Cyprus model, whereby the bases would remain sovereign rUK territory. I also believe that the RN retained bases in the Irish Free State for about a decade after Home Rule and gave them up just before WWII (bad timing). The trouble with Faslane though is that it's quite a way from the coast so navigation would be tricky. In theory though do we need an MPA base in Scotland, after all how long would be the transit time to the Greenland Gap from say a base down south? Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Base them at Valley, gives you the whole West coast from central point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Foster60 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 We are getting carried away here, the chances of any of this actually happening seems small. If we have had a capability gap for 5 years and got away with it why not make it 10! ( not my opinion) It is shocking how history repeats itself. I seem to remember being taught something about the10 year rule in the early 1930's? No one would attack this country for ten years, there was no threat. Glad someone woke up just in time. Thats what happens when you know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Nigel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmcc Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 That's a good point but not entirely sure it would apply. After all, we have US aircraft based at Lakenheath. Such deployments are covered by the provisions of the Visiting Forces Act (I think?) . While I personally look forward to Scotland leaving the Union, it won't happen overnight or any time soon. Neither will the purchase and deployment of a new force of MPAs. An independent Scotland with NATO membership would likely have its own version of the current legislation which could allow deployment of foreign forces - which in this case would include the RAF!. Allan allan so you really want to scotland to leave the uk ? we had the indy vote it was done and dusted , deal with it .. stop bringing it up .. this thread is turning more political .. there is only one RAF base in scotland ... the MPA role is to hunt submarines and protect the nuclear subs at faslane thats why they were based at kinloss , or if leuchars was out then reopen the base at Machrihanish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Machrihanishwhich has a long runway and base to house large aircraft .. and was an emergency runway for the space shuttle.. or even buy out prestwick and base the MPA there.. Without getting political re bases in Scotland, there is always the Cyprus model, whereby the bases would remain sovereign rUK territory. I also believe that the RN retained bases in the Irish Free State for about a decade after Home Rule and gave them up just before WWII (bad timing). The trouble with Faslane though is that it's quite a way from the coast so navigation would be tricky. In theory though do we need an MPA base in Scotland, after all how long would be the transit time to the Greenland Gap from say a base down south? Trevor a sovereign base in scotland if we had another referendum no mate i dont see it happening the indy 2 or a sovereign base.. so stop the i hope scotland leave as the so called vows havent happened before the referendum .. we voted to stay as the uk respect that .. so lets keep the political statements off the forum .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Closed due to political nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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