sloegin57

The "block" underwing serial presentation on the Hunter appears to have been introduced from the Mk.4 (Avon powered) and the Mk.5 (Saphire powered) onwards in order that the recently introduced inboard pylon and 100 gal fuel tanks did not interfere with the visibility of the aircraft serial as the serial block was classified as a "Mandatory Marking". As well as changing to block formation, the serial was presented between the pylon and the fuselage and in the most visible position possible. The following photographs will illustrate this :- Hunter F.Mk.1's of 54Sqdn with the linear presentation Hunter F.Mk.4's of 43Sqdn. Note also that two of the aircraft are still without "Sabrinas". Having just completed a 48th F.Mk.1 of 43Sqdn, I am still trying to ascertain whether or not the latter had Red painted nose wheel doors with white code, as shown above, or if they were in fact painted Black with white code for the simple reason that Red seems to me to be such an odd colour for 43 to use Hunter F.Mk.4's of 93Sqdn Hunter FR.10 XE589 of 8Sqdn illustrating the block presentation inboard of the pylon. Unfortunately I cannot find any photographs of a Mk.5 showing the undersurfaces but the old Eschelon 1/32nd instruction sheet has decals for 34Sqdn F.Mk.5 and calls for the "Block" presentation. HTH Dennis

No problem Wez. I'll beg off for today as we are all celebrating my eldest Grandson going solo at Dundee Airport on Friday. Once he gets his PPL, he than qualifies to commence his Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL) and a BSc (Hons) Degree in Professional Aviation Pilot Practice. A course about four years long. The walk-around you featured is one of the best I have seen but I will try and find the original folder and repost the stuff in it. I think it includes photos that my nephew Phil Boyden took for me some years ago. HTH Dennis

They most certainly do and I've learnt something new today Many thanks Dennis

I entirely agree with James and i am afraid that the same goes for the otherwise superb 48th Hunter especially on the mainplane upper surfaces. Dennis

Thank you Alan - appreciated. Dennis

Re the roundel diameter. I measured mine based on a plan view of a Danish Cat that appeared in an old Airfix magazine many moons ago (1969 I think). I agree that W8424 was repainted at some stage. I also have photos of the aircraft (possibly W8424) fitted with one torpedo under the stb wing. Attaching the few photos that I have collected over the years. I have not dated them as yet. You may have seen these before Nils @Vingtor but I'll put them up just for general interest. I have plans to build a Cat of 333Sqdn at some time but its early days as yet in my research. Reading between the lines - are you planning on a set of decals for the Cats by any chance. ? The caption for this shot states :- "Vingtor Catalina from 333 Squadron takes off from the base in Woodhaven 1942 ." The location is identified as Newport-on-Tay by the Kirk on shore. The aircraft is heading east towards the Tay rail bridge. The buildings to the right of the kirk are long gone and replaced by bespoke riverside apartments. Caption reads :- "333 Sq Catalina "Vingtor" moored in Pack ice" Possibly Iceland although I believe that they also operated out of Sullom Voe. Caption reads :- "333 Sq Catalina moored in Pack ice" I had to lighten this shot considerabley to read the serial. I am not saying that it was taken at the same time as the "Vingtor"one above but....... In both photos, the aircraft appears to be in just one colour Caption reads :- "The Norwegian Catalina plane Viking 333Sq Woodhaven Couple of comments. Firstly. looking at the division between the colours on the nose gives me the impression that the aircraft has been hand painted and secondly, the name 'Viking' appears behind the Norwegian flag on this aircraft but the name 'Vingtor' appears in front in the shot above. Caption reads :- "The Norwegian Catalina plane Viking 333Sq" 'Viking' apparently on engine runs at Woodhaven. Note the shadows lower right on the aircraft of what appear to be ASV aerials and the "protective" metal band that curves out from the fuselage seemingly protecting them, the reason for which is illustrated by the "dinks" in the fwd chine that the mooring rope is attached to. Further ASV aerials appear to be mounted under the Stbd wing. I have no idea as to the function of what looks like the chimney of a wood burning stove jutting out of the fuselage next to the front turret !. Although the caption states :- "A torpedo mounted on one of the 333 Squadron Catalina aircraft" It was only later in the sequence that I found close ups of the installation - which I will put up later. The aircraft is on the small slip at Woodhaven. Nearly eighty years separates the two photos of 333Sqdn's base at Woodhaven. The mono recce photo is dated June 1st 1943 and was taken 540Sqdn. I have reversed the "Google Maps" photo to make sense. There is a possibility that the Cat on the small slip is W8424. Apart from a couple of fields turned into a building plot very little has changed. The large building behind the base is now a car park and the Sqdn HQ and workshops is now run by the very attractive "Wormit Boating Club". I have forwarded a copy of the recce photo to my eldest Grandson, who is taking his flying lessons from Dundee Airport prior to starting his Degree in October and asked if he could take a similar shot. Hope you all found this of interest, quite amazing what you find in this quiet corner of Scotland. Regards Dennis

In answer to Nils question and also to agree with Sydhuey's figures, the following was published by the late Dick Ward on his Modeldecal sheet 102, (British Roundels 1938-1947 Large Types A and A1) and sheet 103, (British Roundels 1938 - 1947 Large Types B, C & C1 ) :- I'll now post this photo of three "Cats" of 333Sqdn Royal Norwegian Air Force based at Woodhaven, just up the road from me and near Dundee, flying over St Andrews with St Rules Tower bottom left and in what appears to me to be in at least two maybe three different camo schemes. The occasion and date is not known but possibly reflects the Units move to Iceland or even the end of hostilities. I'd say that the mainplane roundels on these aircraft at least were 84 inches. :- HTH Dennis

Contrary to being "flimsy with thin skins", the subject tanks were made from Mild Steel and quite hefty. YK GOH s quite correct, the indentation was to ensure that the landing gear doors cleared the tank during landing when the main gear became, temporarily, fully compressed. :- The Javelin also had the same requirement in its day :- The Fairy Gannet had a similar but larger indentation in the outer skin of the bomb doors. This to ensure that the main gear could be raised/lowered should, for some reason, the bomb doors remain open :- Air intakes on Hunters up until around the late 70's were natural metal, Aluminium, which weathered to a metallic Grey colour. HTH Dennis

I ordered mine from Aviation Megastore but UPS notified me that they had misdirected mine but did not say where. Further email states the it will be here later on today - fingers crossed. This will keep one fairly ancient modeller, who spent three years of his life trundling around the Med in the sixtes in one, very very happy indeed. I see that our, Malta Communications and Target Towing Squadron, VVIP aircraft, VX574, is featured. Very plush inside as she was established for use by the then Governor-General of the Island, Sir Maurice Dorman, GCMG GCVO DL, on his diplomatic trips around the area on behalf of The Sovereign. Been waiting decades for one of these. A few photos of 574, and others, from those days :- As well as VX574 we had a couple of C.Mk.1's on the Squadron. VX539 when I arrived in late '64 but which was flown to Catterick in '66 and replaced by VW856 the same day. In these two C.Mk.1's and as well as normal transport and re-supply sorties for the Army, we also carried out Air Sea Rescue trips with dinghy's underslung following the disbandment of 38 Squadron . We covered the Central Med whilst 70 Squadron with its Hastings covered the Eastern area and a detachment of Shackletons from Balleykelly covered the Western end of the Med and the Eastern Atlantic. The Med from 100feet AMSL We had regular visits from C.2 VX573 "Loreley" of HQ 2ndTAF Comms Flight. Although also used for VIP used it was not quite as plush inside as VX574. There was no wine cabinet for a start and fewer "privacy bulkheads" The galley was very basic and there was no silverware or china for dining, just the standard RAF Mess issue stuff. It was, however, polished to almost the same standard as our aircraft HTH Dennis

Various windscreens should be no problem Ali but an accurate blistered canopy in 48th ?. Unless you do a standard flat sided canopy with cutouts and separate blisters to be affixed with something like Krystal Clear. Best of luck on that one pal. I think it will be worth it just for the additions to the spares box. ! Dennis

As far as I am aware, the 90gal tanks were oval in cross section but same but slightly larger in profile. There was also a "window" dispenser version as well. On the deck of HMS Glory - recce tank on right wing (left as we look at the pic) HTH Dennis

Export Mainplane ribs and spars (no skin cutouts) :- Description in Training Manual (may have to be read more than once !) Dennis

Thanks John, that sounds like LER (Leading Edge Rib) 12A and 13A coming off Spar 1. I recall that we had some strengthening mods to do on them. It might be worth your (and ours !) while to contact the Training School at Warton and see if they have any documentation from those days. There may even be a grizzled old Lightning Instructor still there just sitting on his pension. They had parts of a Lightning F.2A in the Saudi Tech Hangar as well which we could play with. I think the serial was XN734. I'll dig out a drawing of the export mainplane. Cheers Dennis

You may well have uncovered the root source of the misunderstanding @rossm. That is all it can be called as as far as I am concerned Flight, or Flight International, as it is now, have a reputation for accurate reporting. If I were writing that last sentence and with the beauty of hindsight, I would have written :- "These export Lightnings are derived from the development aircraft that has led to the F.6 interceptor". The development aircraft I am referring to are P.1A WG760, which first proved the cambered "kinked" outer wing and F2/3/3A XN725 a photo of which has already appeared on BM else where (see below) P-1A WG760 :- The "developed" F.3 referred to above was this one :- together with it's history from a BARG "Spotlight" feature :- The only thing that puzzles me about Flight's misunderstanding is that they seem to have missed the obvious connection and that is in the Mark Number for the export single seater. The first figure '5' refers to the fact that it is an export aircraft and the second figure refers to the fact that it was derived from the Mk3.. That was standard practice throughout the British aircraft Industry in those days. One of the major problems with all the early Lightnings was maintainability - it was a pig, in fact it was a pigs father. During my time in the service, there were only three organisations that had requests published on Station Standing Orders for technical volunteers to fill vacancies and request postings to them. They were - The Red Arrows, The Queens Flight and Lightnings. Don't get me wrong - some people loved them. They were superb in the air but maintenance was a horror. With the F6, BAC attempted to right the wrong bits by completely redesigning the component, pipework and electrical layout inside the fuselage and a few bits in the wings in order make life just a little easier for techies. In the view of many, myself included, a posting to any of the above three was considered to be a career killer. We seem to have wandered off the OP's question a touch. How did BAC manage to hang underwing weapons on two RAF F.6 Lightnings when there were no pickup points for them. ? I've no idea HTH Dennis

Hi All, As has everyone else in this thread, and for that matter in the aeronautical press down the years, you all appear to have made the assumption that the F.Mk.53 was the export version of the F.Mk.6. It was not. The F.Mk.53 was the export version of the F.Mk.3 and the T.Mk.55 was the export version of the T.Mk.5 which in turn was essentially an F.Mk.3 with a two seat nose bolted onto the front. Although externally the F.Mk.53 and the F.Mk.6 look almost the same, internally they were two entirely different beasties. Had there been an export version of the F.Mk.6 it would have been designated F.Mk.56. HTH Dennis